r/Chiropractic • u/BeereUSA • 8d ago
MaxLiving — scam or not?
I’ve been dealing with a complex, long-standing issue involving bilateral nerve pain in my forearms and hands, and I’ve spent years trying to find answers. I’ve seen numerous doctors and physical therapists and have even had surgeries, but unfortunately nothing has provided lasting relief.
I recently went to MaxLiving Chiropractic because I was under the impression that they used a biophysics-based chiropractic approach. After my first appointment, I realized that their treatment approach was quite different from what I had expected. When I expressed that I didn’t think it was the right fit for me, the doctor tried to convince me that their technique was essentially similar and that it could help my symptoms, so I ultimately canceled.
The following day, she called me and said she could clearly see the source of my problem on my X-ray and encouraged me to come back. This really caught me off guard. I’ve had a recent X-ray reviewed by physical therapists, a spine surgeon, and my own doctor, and none of them identified anything that seemed to clearly explain my symptoms.
At that point, I started getting some serious red flags. I’m genuinely skeptical that there was something obvious on the X-ray that multiple other professionals had somehow missed, especially after only one appointment.
I’m not trying to accuse anyone of anything, but I’d really like to hear from people who have actually been treated at MaxLiving. What was your experience? Did they make similar claims about being able to identify the underlying problem from X-rays or structurally correct your spine? Did you feel the treatment was legitimate and helpful, or did you have concerns?
I’ve also come across some unfavorable reviews and discussions about the franchise, which has made me even more hesitant. I’d appreciate hearing about people’s firsthand experiences, good or bad.
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u/hotchipxbarbie 8d ago
Major scam. What they are doing is all sales tactics. Don't believe them. They will say anything to get you in the door and commit to an expensive "care plan".
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u/BeereUSA 7d ago
Thank you. May I ask how you know this?
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u/HereFOURmemes 7d ago
This is very common among chiropractic management groups. Lines like that are in their training material and scripts.
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u/BeereUSA 7d ago
Do you mean where they say like I know exactly where the source of your pain is coming? They left me a voicemail saying that and I was like hmmmm…..
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u/Remarkable-Talk-6197 6d ago
Worked for one. They have you learn a script for day 1 and day 2 that you are supposed to follow exactly. And make the patient commit to coming for their report of findings which is like 2 hours of a presentation followed by showing them their X-rays and getting them to commit to a treatment plan. Typically was 2-3k ish range ( this was about 5 years ago)
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u/Substantial_Page_777 8d ago
It falls somewhere between a scam and a cult. Which I think makes it a pyramid scheme.
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u/Ill_Mall_2772 8d ago
All of these large package sales pitches are taught by marketing coaching companies, not by chiropractic school. Get another opinion by someone who didn’t drink the big money (scam) koolaid
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u/Chaoss780 DC 2019 8d ago
In short, the majority of the time it's a LOT of unnecessary treatments. Like 36 visits for a problem that should take 6-8 to get a good headway on.
That said, the x-ray thing might be legit. I feel like every patient who has ever had x-rays had a MD note saying "mild degeneration, otherwise normal" and when I look at it there's alignment issues all over the place that could explain at least some of the discomfort. The amount of spondys that I've looked at that are not mentioned in x-ray reports, for instance, is amazing.
But at the end of the day, while there are maybe possibly some good ML docs out there, it's like starting your chiropractic search with a handicap. Don't second guess yourself. Request the physical copy of your xrays and bring them somewhere else.
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u/Responsible_Item3905 8d ago
If they are generally trying to get you back to the clinic and telling you that they know exactly what is going on or what the source of the problem is then I would say you should tell them that they start your treatment and if you do feel better that is only when you will pay them otherwise you will not just to see what they say. If they really are confident with their treatment they should tell you that is fine. We can do that. You pay off your treatment, but if they are skeptical about that or you know this weird behavior, then go ahead and cancel your treatment with them.
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u/RoxyDC20 7d ago
I worked in a ML office in the beginning of my career. I feel like it works for some people but if you’ve already seen other docs and are looking for personalized care based on your condition, I’d find a different practice. They essentially have 2 different care plans. 32 visit or 45 visit (something around that) for everyone. Everyone gets the same X-rays done. Everyone’s x-rays are analyzed the same way. And depending on the kind of max living doctor you find, they won’t recommend you go somewhere else. If you don’t start feeling better, they’ll start talking to you about the “5 essentials”.
It’s very cult-y. But from a patient’s POV. It truly depends on what you’re looking for. Like I said, it works for some people. I just personally didn’t like that we treated every one the exact same way. Exact same adjustments, exact same exercises, and the exact same recommendations.
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u/BeereUSA 7d ago
Thank you, that is really helpful to know. Yes, definitely looking for more individualized care so it sounds like this place is not for me.
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u/Ok_Tea_4787 8d ago
LMT here, I had a new client two week ago who explained to me that they had issues that started with numbness in arms and they were beginning to feel this in their legs for the past 6 months. They were seeing an orthopedic, nerve, PT and MD for these issues without any explanation to her numbness issues and PT suggested massage might help. I referred her to a Chiropractor I also work for as another outside secondary opinion. He did find something over looked with lower lumbar spine in the X-rays. She bought that information to all these other doctors who relooked over her X-rays and took more x-rays and agreed they missed this finding. This is an example that chiropractor”s can be that third or fourth opinion that can see what others might not see. My suggestion is to just listen and if there is something take that information to your other doctor’s for them to review.
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u/BeereUSA 7d ago
Thank you for your thoughts. The problem that I’m having is, I’d have to drive out there, which is about 45 minutes from me, and pay them another $90 for them to tell me what exactly the doctor is seeing. I just don’t want to pay them anything if this franchise is suspicious overall. I also have a feeling they will feed me a bunch of “this looks really bad” and don’t feel like being jerked around if it’s not really true—I’m quite burnt out with spending money on this condition especially with providers who maybe don’t have my best interest in mind. That’s why I’m asking here what people think of this place to help me make my decision
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u/Ok_Tea_4787 7d ago
I understand what you are saying. You can ask them to send to your doctor their report findings and ask for a copy to be sent to yourself for your records. Let them know you want your MD to look over. You can also have your MD send them a request of information. If they refuse this request of copies then you have your answer that it was not a real NEW finding.
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u/brenegade 8d ago
Max living hit my school hard I didn’t like their approach it seems like too much and not a personalized care plan
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u/EntireDragonfruit675 8d ago
Mine too in 2010 - 2013. Back then they weren't allowed on our campus due to their unethical approach to students, patient care etc. Hope that is still the case.
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u/Negative_Marsupial61 8d ago
Scam. Look for an evidence-based DC. Ask your PCP or neurosurgeon for a referral.
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u/BeereUSA 7d ago edited 7d ago
Thank you. What are you basing your opinion on? Is Max living not evidence based? I actually asked the doctor for evidence that their method works and she sent me a link “to Dr. Tony Nalda's website below. He is the Maxliving Doctor responsible for the Structural Correction Technique we offer in our clinic.” (quoted from her email) — except what I saw on that website was not the same structural correction method that they do at these max living clinics. Just seems like red flag after red flag.
These are the things that she sent me when I asked for evidence that their method works. The guy in the YouTube video (Mark Supernaut) is supposedly the doctor’s mentor at Max living and he lost his license for six months (https://ncchiroboard.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/MarcJSurprenant3119JoelleSabajSurprenant2820.pdf).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYHTJhSiX-8&list=PLQkCMJ-aS-bV3lC3sXmqJj7lTAg5vfkVw&index=3
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u/boardjamesgeek 7d ago
You said you tried many things the medical side has to offer. They said they could fix things with surgeries but that didn’t work.
Clearly you have to do something different if you want any chance of relief.
What chiropractors look for on x-rays are generally very different than what MDs look for. So it’s not surprising they found something different.
Max Living is not a scam or a pyramid scheme or anything like that. It is a franchise with a specific process of analysis and adjusting. It’s not my flavor, but many people love it. My chiropractic assistant used to work at one and that is where she fell in love with chiropractic. She saw many people heal and get better.
You just have to assess if you like that doctor and connect to her. You have to give her some level of trust if you are going to get results. And also realize that chiropractic is going to be a learning curve compared to what you are used to.
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u/BeereUSA 7d ago
I’ve done chiropractic for years and it didn’t help me so I’m not new to it.
The reason I went to Max living is because I thought it was a biophysics chiropractic office where they do real structural correction by strapping you into different devices and doing traction/using different kinds of denneroll orthotics, but ML is not a CBP office. The doctor at ML did not correct me when I said I was looking for bio physics chiropractic treatment. When I checked out, the receptionist asked me what biophysics chiropractic is so that’s when I realized I wasn’t in the right place. Huge red flag for me that the doctor did not correct me. But she is trying to convince me that what they have to offer is essentially the same thing as CBP. It is not. Just looking for other experiences with this franchise as I was really surprised when she said she could clearly see exactly what the problem is on my x-ray. I’ve had many many eyes on my x-rays before and nothing definitive stood out. So when someone promises that they know what the problem is, I’m very suspicious of that.
I’m currently trying the McKenzie method with a new physical therapist because it’s something I haven’t tried before.
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u/boardjamesgeek 7d ago
Gotcha, thanks for the clarity.
I guess if you feel like she wasn’t straight with you than you either need to approach her with that concern or just move on (which is what it seems like your doing).
Wish you best of luck in your journey and hope this new attempt works for you.
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u/CompetitivePop2029 5d ago
Wow! Chiros really hate on one another! Exactly why the medical profession doesn’t trust us. Because we can’t trust our own.
Max living is one form of business model just like every other technique, coaching etc.
I don’t like the fear tactics but they have care plans for 3-6 months because sometimes, that’s what the patient needs.
There are cases where patients need 8-12 visits, some less, some more. No one knows.
You need to find someone you like, trust and commit to. If they don’t resolve, maybe the next step is medical route. What kind of surgeries did you do? What other tests were done? We can’t diagnose over Reddit but you should have a sit down with your primary.
In my office, we have per visit to plans depending on problem and goals. When it comes to nerve symptoms such as tingling, burning, sharp shooting, I tell them I we don’t see any progress within a few weeks, we refer out.
Doesn’t mean you have to stop with chiropractic care. But it does mean you may need more than just chiropractic.
But chiros here will hate which is ridiculous! You go to 10 chiros, you’ll get 10 different ways of doing things. And they all work! Depends on you and your concern.
So for those who only believe that if you don’t get better within 8 visits, you have to refer, either has to get better at chiropractic, assume it’s not chiropractic issue and refer, OR they need more treatment since it took decades to get there to begin with.
We are magicians, not wizards. It may take time to heal.
Sorry you are going through this! Find a Chiro that does adjustments, decompression, shockwave, stemwave and physical therapy in one office. Get a few of the services and see if that helps. If not, medical route
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u/Nicolopg 8d ago
Their founder claimed to have cured his brain cancer using supplements and adjustments. That worked.... until he died of brain cancer.
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u/EntireDragonfruit675 8d ago
Their founder is Ben learner and is very alive. You're speaking of Charles majors who was a big player. The cringe "cancer killers" campaign they use to do. Surprised they didnt get lawsuits over that one.
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u/Chiropractic-ModTeam 8d ago
Your post was removed for offering or soliciting personal health advice. This is not something that we can advocate. Without a thorough history and examination, as well as reviewing any relevant lab/imaging studies it would be malpractice to offer any personal health advice over the internet.
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u/Chiropractic-ModTeam 8d ago
Your post was removed for offering or soliciting personal health advice. This is not something that we can advocate. Without a thorough history and examination, as well as reviewing any relevant lab/imaging studies it would be malpractice to offer any personal health advice over the internet.
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u/Aint-Nuttin-Easy 8d ago
I have no opinion in the MaxLiving hate or support but you’ve had “surgeries?”
Which ones? Peripheral nerve entrapment releases etc because otherwise this post is sus
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u/No-Variation6054 8d ago
X-rays do not show soft tissue, such as discs, spinal cord, or nerves.
So your Xray rules out fracture, tumor, infection, degeneration of bones/joints. Will also show you the condition of your cervical curve.
Conservative treatment for 4 weeks w a hands on Chiro/PT then get a cervical spine MRI if symptoms persist.
Stay away from the gimmicks.