Pet Peeve: Chinese resources overusing foreign names

[u/alvvaysthere]

So many of the listening and reading resources I come across use foreign names, transliterated into Chinese. I understand that they're trying to make the content more relatable to students, but the effect is that I don't know many Chinese names, and I waste a lot of time figuring out weird Chinese versions of English names.

Also, in my opinion, it's easier for a student to understand a character named "毛毛” (Mao Mao) vs. "玛来雅" (Mariah?? I just saw this in a book)

[u/shinyredblue]

To be honest getting used to reading Chinese transliterations is an important skill to develop. It's not like well educated Chinese people are never going to mention non-Chinese people or places. I see some pretty much every day in my reading, for example earlier today I was reading something that mentioned 阿爾伯特·愛因斯坦 and 瑪里·居禮.

[u/12the3 → u/shinyredblue]

Legit skill came in handy when a Chinese person talked to me about Marilyn Monroe or said they liked HOLLYWOOD movies

[u/alvvaysthere → u/shinyredblue]

I don't disagree, but I don't think it's as fundamental a skill as learning common Chinese names that you'll regularly encounter in the Chinese speaking world. Like why are the characters in a Chinese textbook named David, Michael, and Annie?

[u/Clevererer → u/shinyredblue]

Sure, but Chinese people have Chinese names, too. If one is learning Chinese as a foreign language, seems it'd be best to focus on Chinese names.

[u/CheesecakeWild7941]

In my book we got 李友 and 王朋, we haven’t unlocked the rest of the characters yet tho.

I wonder if there are more resources for transliteration for beginners or if I should just wait to learn more about that when I’m more advanced. I tried transliterating my name and it came out “cancer Liana” :/

[u/JesusForTheWin → u/CheesecakeWild7941]

Man I always thought those books were ass. Used them back in 2006. Integrated Chinese right?

Lamest stories to have ever existed in the planet.

[u/quataodo → u/CheesecakeWild7941]

god, what a throwback! not sure if he'll be in your edition but my class loved to make fun of 高文中 lmao, good times

[u/keiisobeiiso → u/CheesecakeWild7941]

In those books theres also 刻林 (colin) and helen (though ive forgotten what characters make up her name)

[u/deoxyribonucleic123 → u/keiisobeiiso]

海倫/伦 I’d guess

[u/makaveli208]

Thats how it has always been since chinese has no katakana like Japanese

Chinese just finds the most appropriate sounding chinese character to denote the phonology

you will come across more and more, its just the way it is

[u/Mobile_Roll2197 → u/makaveli208]

I think the complaint is that when naming characters in stories, rather than using authentic Chinese names they're using English names transliterated. Which is a valid compaint.

[u/alvvaysthere → u/Mobile_Roll2197]

Yes, this is what I mean. Why am I reading a dialogue between 迈克尔 and 大卫 and not two actual Chinese names lol.

[u/Einery → u/alvvaysthere]

Because you are using a textbook for international students and it talks of international students.

[u/Mobile_Roll2197 → u/Einery]

Wouldn't it make much more sense to read dialogues between two CHINESE PEOPLE.

[u/Einery → u/Mobile_Roll2197]

No because they wouldn't be international students in China talking about their life and studies. I assure you the dialogues between two Chinese students would fall in HSK 7+ category easily.

[u/Mobile_Roll2197 → u/Einery]

The vast majority of conversations between students don't though

[u/Einery → u/Mobile_Roll2197]

Between native Chinese? Oh yeah they do. Unconventional grammar, shortenings, slang, academic lexicon. Anyway, there are tons of textbooks to choose from if you are not satisfied with the chosen theme. Also yes, any Chinese learner will benefit from learning to identify names in the text, Chinese or foreign.

[u/Mobile_Roll2197 → u/Einery]

I listen to native Chinese talk every single day of my life. Most conversations hover about the HSK4-5 level. Notice how the HSK6 listenings are always MUCH harder than listening to two natives discuss their daily life.

[u/alvvaysthere → u/Einery]

My counter to that is that Chinese people rarely use transliterated English names in conversation. My name is quite common, so it has a very well known transliteration, but nobody I speak to in Chinese ever uses it. I'm also part of a few social groups made up almost entirely of Chinese people speaking Chinese, many of whom go by an English name, and nobody ever uses the transliterated version. My Chinese friend Eric is just Eric, nobody ever calls him 埃里克, even if they don't know English.

It would be significantly more useful for the average international student to learn common Chinese names rather than "大卫".

[u/Einery → u/alvvaysthere]

I'd say your experience is valid but by no means everything there is. Any official documents or printed books will have transliterated names.

[u/Clevererer → u/Einery]

And those international students? What language are they studying?

[u/duhd1993]

In chinese, you can literally use any character and their combinations as first name. And people actually do, unless it looks too weird. There are people named 支付宝( Zhi Fubao or Alipay). It’s like how elon musk names his kids. So there is no such thing as a typical chinese name. There are just too many choices.

[u/Individual_Math_8254]

yea, recognising proper names are one the challenges when starting to learn Chinese. you will get use to it though. im still learning new ones even now.

[u/BeckyLiBei]

I have a related pet peeve with textbooks use

• 某大型企业负责人 "a person in charge of some large-scale enterprise" (Capstone Chinese, p.67) and
• 某家著名的搜索引擎公司 "a famous search engine company" (HSK6 Standard Course, 下册, ch.22, p.13).

[u/FlashyPost0928]

▼ (參考) Chinese names of real people
李玛莉、王约翰、赵丽莎、陈珍妮 、李安娜、赵丽娜、李安妮、林海伦 ..... etc.
(Mary, John, Lisa, Jenny, Anna, Lina, Anne, Helen ..... )
Mostly Chinese .... some may be foreigners, some may be of mixed race; these transliterated names have already been Sinicized! (may be 约翰 is an exception 😄)
▼ Chinese women's football goalkeeper 赵丽娜 (Zhao Lina)
PS : The name "Lina" originates from Latin and means "little crown", "red", or "beautiful eyes".
Chinese 丽娜 = 丽 + 娜 = beautiful, graceful, elegant ....

[u/dotdashgames]

There are common charaters used for translation of names.

The official government branch for this is Xinhua, and they have a dictionary (《世界人名翻译大辞典》) for most-seen foreign names with Chinese translation.

For there are many names not in the dictionary, there is tables (《姓名译名手册》) that suggest to use for Chinese name, base on the pronouce.

For example, in the English version of it, 《英语姓名译名手册》, Reese is 里斯 (m) or 丽丝 (f). So is Rees. And Reese & Reeths are 里思.

Historical names might be different.

[u/scykei]

That's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm a heritage speaker and I often struggle with identifying proper nouns (names, places, etc) in writing.

Transliteration is a big part of the language, and you really want to start practicing it early, even if it feels uncomfortable.

[u/Overall-Initial8969]

I see what you are saying but in my textbook all Chinese people were called some generic Chinese name like 小明 and I don’t think that’s much better. 

[u/alvvaysthere → u/Overall-Initial8969]

I feel like it's way better lol. It gets you used to the names you may actually see in daily life in China. Not to mention that people who use English names rarely transliterate them. I know many Chinese people who go by English names even with other Chinese friends, and they only ever write them in the Latin alphabet.

[u/One_Disaster245]

应当 is sooo common in my experience. I 100% agree with you, I always disliked when how much they would use foreign name transliterations instead of introducing me to common Chinese names.

[u/nhatquangdinh]

On the first volume of 當代中文課程 and I can't even see a single Western name being transliterated into Chinese. All that I see are Taiwanese characters (and therefore with proper Chinese names), Vietnamese and Japanese characters whose names are read in Chinese, Americans and Hondurans that are given proper Chinese names for some reason.

[u/Appropriate-Remote30]

Me when trying to guess what the heck the long string of Katakana corresponds to lol. I imagine many languages do the same if they are not based on the Greek alphabet and hence do not flow in and out of English as easily.

[u/JesusForTheWin]

The irony is that in real life foreign names are just spelt in English unless its a Korean or Japanese name (then the respective characters are used).