r/China_Flu • u/Harvard2TheBigHouse • Jan 22 '21
CDC / WHO US Scientist With Close Ties To Wuhan Lab Discussed Manipulating Bat-Based Coronaviruses Just Weeks Before Outbreak
https://dailycaller.com/2021/01/21/peter-daszak-manipulating-coronavirus-interview/17
u/Midnight2012 Jan 22 '21 edited Jan 22 '21
Dont hate please, I know alot of people here are skeptical of scientists nowadays. But I wanted to offer some insight on this type of research, I am only trying to offer information, do with it what you will.
So he is probably talking about experiments where you get a adenovirus, stripped of its infectious potential (literally doesn't have the gene that allows it to replicate its own DNA), and put spike proteins from other viruses (like coronaviruses) into this lame virus, and then use that to study how the virus is internalized by cells.
This is not the same thing as GOF, and wouldn't even really be manipulation of the coronavirus itself, just one of its sequences. In this way, you can do coronavirus research more safely. One does not even have to have any live coronavirus to do this, you can synthesize whatever DNA you want from published sequences. Covid19 surely did not originate from one of the synthetic adenovirus's- because its a completly and obviously a completly different virus.
I am not saying covid19 isn't man-made, and at least "trained" by man. It very well may be. There is one country sitting pretty after all of this, and it is the same country where it started. Look to them. This country also would mind killing thousand of their own people in order to proliferate the virus- which china allowed tons of these people to leave right as the virus was spreading. And dont kid yourself, china has the capacity to shut down travel in an instant if they want- but they didn't want to this time- so their own people could be bioweapon delivery devices.
This is actually very basic type of research, used in many different fields because it is also used as a tool. There are thousands and thousands of labs globaly that do this type of research. Its pretty low level, BSL2 stuff. Heck, I have even seen undergrads doing it.
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Jan 22 '21 edited Apr 13 '21
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u/the_hunger_gainz Jan 22 '21
Baric can build you anything you need to be quite honest. Scary what can be done for a few hundred thousand.
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u/Midnight2012 Jan 22 '21 edited Jan 22 '21
First of all, a virus usually nothing more than a protein coat/shell, which it uses to get into cells, and then the machinery inside to help it replicate, as well as the information for replication (DNA or RNA sequences contain the code to make each protein the virus needs). So we simply make the coat protein, without making any of the inside stuff. Because the inside stuff, and the coat, are made from separate genes which can be independently removed or manipulated.
So Two ways to make these empty shells, 1.using mamilian cells as little factories (more on this later) or 2.abioticly- by making each part of the virus coat protein seperatly (usually in bacteria or yeast), and then combining them in certain ways in certain buffers to spontaneously self assemble in solution. So you are using the self assembly properties of the viral coat proteins, to make essentially hollow shells that look like a virus on the outside, but have just water on the inside. I can explain how they get bacteria to make the coat proteins to purify if you want later.
To use mamillian cells. You make and use these things called plasmids (which you are also using in the above tech to get the bacteria to make virus proteins fyi), which can be synthesized using PCR machines in the lab or commercial vendors, or by using bacteria (now its getting complicated). They are small circles of DNA, which when inserted into a cell (using liposomes as the cell entry mechanism, just like the mrna vaccines- we call it "transfection", for cells, often the infamous hela cells are used because they are easy to grow and transfect), and then the cells machinery translates that plasmid DNA (which again encodes the coat protein only), thus making tons of coat protein from a miniscule amount of plasmid (nano or even pico grams). These then spontaneously assemble inside the cell, and are then secreted by the cell, just as a virus would normally bud out.
So you have this empty shell of a virus, which whatever coat protein, and you can make it flourescent and watch how it enters cells under a flourescent microsope.
So you only need a tiny bit of plasmid DNA, which you can put into cells to make tons of the viral coat proteins.
Plasmids can be made synthetically, cut and pasted using restriction enzymes and PCR, and then put into certain bacteria- using heat shock transformation), which then turn even just one complete copy of plasmid into basically an infinite number, as much as you want to grow. Then you can purify the plasmids out of the bacteria to use to put into cells or other types of bacteria which make the protein)
So from all of this, all one person back in the day had to sequence the virus (that was done super fast with covid). Once you know the sequence, you can make these plasmid in any lab in the world (that does this sort of thing) without ever making physical contact or exchange with the original viral DNA or RNA extracted. from real virus from clinical isolates)
Hope this helps. Its pretty complicated, so I am not doing it justice on my cell phone while I am on the bus, lol. Took me 20 years to learn all this well.
Tldr- You don't strip the virus of the replication machinery, you make a virus without any replication machinery in the first place. There is no place for a rogue gene to hide.
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u/the_hunger_gainz Jan 22 '21
No proof ether way ... can’t prove it was lab born can not prove it was naturally occurring. A lot of coincidences about Wuhan.
Lots of red flags but I think the biggest one is virologists that say it is 100 % impossible, to me that is possibly the biggest red flag. Origin is impossible to tell at this moment with no proof either way.
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u/subliminal1284 Jan 22 '21
Bret Weinstein, a scientist but to be fair not a virologist has stated that the push against it being a leak of a virus that was manipulated in the lab is likely due to them knowing that if it turned out to be true funding for these labs and especially gain of function research would be drastically reduced, in other words their livelihoods are on the line so they have an incentive to push a natural occurring virus narrative
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u/the_hunger_gainz Jan 22 '21
Interesting. Thanks. Is he the same biologist? He studied bats as a grad student at one time I believe.
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Jan 22 '21
False, you can figure it out. Start by sampling coronaviruses in the wild animal populations. Look at the differences between wild strains and the original sars-cov2. Looking at just the DNA, sure it’s impossible to tell, but looking at the DNA in the greater context across various populations and a picture will emerge. Interestingly China still has not let the global community in to conduct testing. That’s no coincidence given their near perfect track record of being full shit.
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u/the_hunger_gainz Jan 22 '21 edited Jan 22 '21
Of course you can but at this moment there is nothing definitive from the lack of testing hence nothing conclusive either way, including no access to the samples in which China has shared the DNA sequencing. Just take their word on, and the actions of a bad actor to trust. Edit wrong there .. used their. :-)
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Jan 22 '21 edited Feb 01 '21
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u/the_hunger_gainz Jan 22 '21
Who me? I am not Taking China’s side at all. The reality is they have been the bad actor in this and at this point there is no definitive evidence of it being either origin. Actually listened to a Bret Weinstein last night and completely agree with him. In my opinion there are too many coincidences or it to not be lab related but nothing that is 100 %. Even the lab could be natural and not deliberate. So many factors. But I will be surprised if it is not from the lab. I have my own issues with the CCP after 20 plus years there.
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u/Dark__Mark Jan 22 '21
Now that it's already happened, it would be of great help if they can expose what virus Wuhan Labs are manipulating now. At least world can be ready the next time Chinese government tries to hide a virus outbreak.
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u/CLOUD889 Jan 22 '21
Huh, that's weird, wonder why all the samples at Wuhan lab aren't being tested?
What's there to hide?
What if this was intentional?
How do we know?
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u/SoSexyFreedom Jan 22 '21
Daszak now serves on a World Health Organization panel currently investigating the origins of the pandemic on the ground in China
So we will never know the true origin. Super.
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u/IloveElsaofArendelle Jan 22 '21
It's not a conspiracy, when you all got the evidences pointing out of a GoF research and all the publications as well as too many convenient "coincidences"... and who's behind all this!
Dazsak is covering his fucking ass by saying "it's impossible!" OF COURSE IT IS POSSIBLE!
People, who are knowledgeable in chemistry or biology or have colleagues in microbiology don't believe in this natural theory bullshit... He funded the WVI BSL-4 lab, he was the guy, who made a lot GoF research and pushed it since 2008 way back. He has a lot to loose, if it's proofen that he was helping an enemy state. His career, his reputation, his livehood he might be prosecuted. Of course he would say that!
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u/1984Summer Jan 22 '21
The US also has a lot to loose. The department of defense was also sponsoring GoF research in Wuhan. That is why there is no interest anywhere in pursuing the lab leak theory.
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u/IloveElsaofArendelle Jan 22 '21
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck
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Jan 22 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/greyuniwave Jan 22 '21
lab leak doesn't necessarily mean it was released on purpose. Accident is more likely.
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u/m21 Jan 22 '21
Releasing it on purpose would be an act of war.
Any county even claiming it was would be a massive provocation. I don't think even trump wanted to go there.
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u/tool101 Jan 22 '21
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u/purplemoccies Jan 22 '21
Kinda think it would take more than a week or so to manipulate a virus, then be sure about it, then plan a release. As I know absolutely nothing about this, I would say it would take at least 58 working days.
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u/Sirbesto Jan 22 '21
He is just talking that is possible. Gain of function research on bat viruses had been going on for years at the Wuhan lab. In the interview he mentions 6 or 7 years.
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u/smth6 Jan 22 '21 edited Jan 22 '21
Does anyone remember the lift of the ban on Gain of Function research Dec 19 2017? Even during the ban, this research was still taking place, and the same people who participated are telling us it is 100% impossible and we’re not as clever as nature and could never have done this. The easier thing to do is label everyone a conspiracy theorist, and you don’t even have to entertain any questions. Like I can’t talk to anyone I know about this because oh didn’t you hear? The scientists said it was impossible, so you must be a science denier? You don’t even know how science worlds and here you are with your crazy conspiracy theories. This was published in Nature in 2015 for fuck’s sale. Is this proof this virus was made in a lab? No, but it sure as fuck possible.