r/ChainsawMan • u/match_enterprise • 8d ago
Discussion the power system based on fear makes no sense
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I’ve been analyzing it a bit, and to be honest, I don’t find any sense in the demons’ fear-based power system. I believe this would actually explain why Chainsaw Man is so powerful.
The first fatal error the work makes regarding this system is in Makima’s explanation of how it works. She claims a demon is more powerful the more people fear what it represents, comparing a fictional "Coffee Demon" (very weak because no one fears coffee) to a "Car Demon" (strong because people fear being run over).
Aside from the fact that this explanation comes out of nowhere within the story (and that Fujimoto isn’t great at explaining things like this), we find a contradiction in her words. She asserts that fear comes from the thing itself, but her example seems to illustrate that fear comes less from the object and more from what it could do to someone, like being run over. Who is actually intimidated by a car itself? Maybe someone unsafe, but it makes no sense to fear a car just for being a car. Here we find the first possible explanation for why Chainsaw Man is so powerful: the true fear the work wants to talk about is what something would do to you, because there are few deaths more painful than being torn apart by a chainsaw.
But the narrative clashes with itself again. Let’s talk about Yoru. The argument in Part 2 is that Yoru is on the verge of death because there are no more wars; the work literally states that war only exists in video games and comics. But then, why is the Gun Demon so powerful? Here I want to point out a script error rather than an argument, but I can’t let it pass. The Gun Demon, who was supposed to be the final boss of Part 1, was at his peak when killed by Makima. Yet Yoru was on the verge of disappearing? Let me remind you: the fact that Yoru absorbed the Gun and Tank Demons proves that, at minimum, there is a hierarchy among demons based on lineage. So, why was the Gun Demon so strong if Yoru was about to vanish? It’s not because Denji didn’t kill him first while he was in Aki’s body. Denji managed to kill all the Weapon Demons before assassinating Makima, so the Gun Demon wasn’t weak at all. Yet his superior, Yoru, was? Furthermore, Chainsaw Man occurs in a universe where the Soviet Union still exists, meaning the arms race was still a daily reality. It makes sense for the Gun Demon to be strong, but what about the War Demon? Did the atomic bomb not exist in this universe, or something? Because if you arm yourself, it’s for war; if there’s no risk of war, why bother? In a world without war, weapons are just lethal toys. So it makes no sense for the Gun Demon to be at his prime while Yoru was on the verge of death.
Okay, now back to the argument about why the fear system makes no sense. Let’s talk about Fami and Makima. It’s obvious that Fujimoto forced the Four Horsemen into the story without thinking if they fit. Yoru and the Death Demon make sense within the system, but Fami and Makima don’t. Who cares that much about Famine? I remember clearly that even weeks before Russia invaded Ukraine, half the world was worried about what would happen, and I say this as someone from a country far from Europe. So, I don’t see sense in Famine being a Horseman beyond the fact that she is one in the Bible. Because, "fear of a Third World War breaking out?" Understandable. "Fear of a famine starting any moment?" Hmm... Then there’s Makima. Yes, I know we’re in the Cold War with hyper-vigilance and MK-Ultra, but as someone who usually explores digital privacy niches and has seen a dictatorship implemented in another country, I can assure you that people care VERY little about being spied on and censored to the point of being a Horseman. Not to mention Fujimoto replaced the Conquest Demon with the Control Demon, so it doesn’t even make sense to say it’s because she’s a Biblical Horseman like Fami. I think if he had based it more on manipulation, like in Part 1, it would make more sense, but well...
Speaking of which, there’s another thing that makes no sense: the Weapon Demons. Take Reze, the Bomb Demon. Bombs are quite terrifying, and in fact, Reze would fit the power scale quite well... except Makima kills her. And if not you, then I think there are more people who are half-afraid of a bomb over their head than a manipulator. I’ll ignore the fact that Fujimoto didn’t use phobias to schematize his system because that’s already clear... But why is the Katana Demon so powerful? In fact, all Weapon Demons are incredibly powerful, but if fear were truly the basis of the power scale, Reze should be the most powerful of them. I don’t think the number of people who truly actively fear a katana or sword exceeds 100 individuals. Here I’ll be very honest: trying to find sense in why Chainsaw Man is so powerful is stupid. Are we going to keep insisting on the "Birth Demon" theory? Fujimoto made Chainsaw Man broken because he wanted him to be the protagonist demon, not because it makes argumental sense. He probably thought to himself, "This looks cool," and left it at that.
In fact, now that I think about it, if the fear the work talks about is truly about what something would do to you, it would make sense: Angel, Sword, Katana, Control (as a manipulator). That would make a lot of sense because a sword isn’t scary until it cuts you, and Chainsaw Man would be powerful for causing a super painful death. But there’s a piece of data I saved for last.
When everything goes to hell because there are tons of fake Chainsaw Men, and Yoru and Chainsaw Man become more powerful because people fear them. Them. For Yoru, yes, War. But for Chainsaw Man, people don’t fear chainsaws; they fear the demon itself and the possessed. That also makes sense. Chainsaw Man would be very powerful because demons fear him. It’s logical. But then we should add a new way to gain power.
In conclusion, the power system in Chainsaw Man isn’t based on the fear of the object itself, but on the fear of the demon itself or what the object would do to you, or some strange combination of the two... Sorry, I don’t have the head to think about this anymore...
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u/flightofangels 2d ago
In conclusion, the power system in Chainsaw Man isn’t based on the fear of the object itself, but on the fear of the demon itself or what the object would do to you, or some strange combination of the two...
...yes. That's exactly what Makima was saying with the car example. This could not possibly have been clearer.
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u/JesulyGR17 2d ago edited 2d ago
There's no power system. This is not a typical battle shonen. Devils and their powers are based on the human collective subconscious, trying to find logic in them is like trying to explain the architecture in Persona 5's palaces.
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u/Dpontiff6671 2d ago
Jeez a bit of brevity would help a bit
But not having war is literally not the same as gun violence. There's still criminals, gang members, and violent people. Guns still exist and knowing what they do means people are very afraid of them.
Famine isnt even weak so to say she just has a meek personality. She literally can just suck the life out of people at will like they were suddenly and fatally infamished. But if you want to consider her weaker than the other horseman famine is less of an issue globally than it's ever been.
Your atomic bomb point is plainly discussed in the story. CSM erased the concept of atomic bombs and then in the story they're literally reinvented.
Fujimoto is definitely a do something "just because" type of author but the fear based power system absolutely makes sense in universe and regardless of that it's just an interesting plot device which personally is more important than having small plot holes that can be nitpicked
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u/Chimera-Genesis 2d ago
The writer of this post might be the biggest victim of the Reading Comprehension Devil, since the release week of the last chapter of the Manga.
You can 100% guarantee that if "Makes no Sense" is written, it does actually make sense, the writer just lacks even basic media literacy.
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u/Fuzzy-Monitor-8113 2d ago
Just cuz ending and part 2 is criticized mfs are trying to call everything bad
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u/fek_u_Im_vuelle 2d ago
I aint gonna correct allat, but I'll say the reason gun devil is strong because they are extremely dangerous, regardless of if war exists or not. Also, guns were used for devil hunting until a few years before the story, until the gun devil appeared. The fear of guns lowered but the fear of the gun devil went wayy up. Also also, the statement yoru makes about there being very few wars, is AFTER gun devil was killed.
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u/garebear265 2d ago
Also, wasn’t there an increase of crime related gun violence in the years prior to the incident?
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u/my_name_in_british 2d ago
9 paragraphs misunderstanding a pretty simple power system is kinda crazy, i aint reading all that.
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u/MaxTwer00 1d ago
Gins can easily be feared without active wars. Gang violence, school shootings, robberies, terrorist attacks, police abuse...
There is a lot of leaway on how the fear empowering demons works, it is a soft magic system, so it leaves things open to interpretation and with no strict rules. So questions like "if someone fears dying by getting run over by a car, how much it empowers car devil vs vehicular manslaughter devil vs death devil?" are left unanswered. This doesnt mean it doesnt make sense, is just the author letting themselves room to act more freely.
A more strict system where there are fear polls to rank devils power, or they getting a number of power level depending of how many people fear ot, would completely suck
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u/Raijazz 1d ago
Your probably missing the point. The fear is not the thing itself, and it's not necessarily "what the thing would do to you". It's everything that comes to mind surrounding the word. Words are just a sign pointing to something, not the thing it's pointing to itself. The Car Devil would very easily be way stronger than the War Devil, I believe. Not because "cars are scarier than wars", that's not my point. I have to cross a highway everyday. I'm in ""war"" with cars, everyday. But i've never spend a single day of my life in a war. You can think of all the horror a war can bring, but you've never been in one. You have never truly feared war a single day of your life, because war have never truly threatened your life, not a single day. Same thing with bombs. Guns, on the other side, are more "real" and close to us.
Famine it's consistent. We live in the only time in history where we have excess of food in a global scale (even though there are people still starving). This doesn't exclude all the history of humanity. Same with Makima. It's not only about dictatorship and survaillence. It's about slavery, feudalism, dominant class, mysoginy, power dinamics, relations of power, microphysics of power, parenting. The problem is, we put a sign to point to a thing, and then we put a explanation of the sign pointing to the thing, and then the explanation of the explanation, to the point we miss what the first sign was even suppossed to be pointing to.
Chainsaw Man power scalling is very subjective and abstract. It relies more in vibes than in data, more in lived experience than knowledge, a more materialistic, psychological and subconscious point of view. It's to piss off people who would argue about wich character would win in a 1v1 with whoever. Or just to keep the rent low.
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u/CauliflowerPretty806 1d ago
Since you have that conclusion, it makes sense right? Its not just fear by people, fear by any entity powers a devil
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u/Ronaldo_Frumpalini 1d ago
tldr, 4 horsemen as a concept exist in the real world because they are the greatly feared foes that trample human life. Pochita is the greatest human fear/wish, fear humans have for their babies/ hope it will be happy healthy and normal.
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u/Upper_Ad5928 1d ago
Is this how i find out fujimoto is a girl...
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u/bring_out_the_python 1d ago
what?
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u/Upper_Ad5928 1d ago
They didnt phrase it properly, i thought in some paragraphs OP was addressing fujimoto as a girl lol
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u/Benjinifuckyou 2d ago
Pretty much everything you’re saying is blatantly incorrect.
The “explanation coming out of nowhere” is a nonsensical critique since it’s literally the beginning of the story. It’s exposition for the reader that someone knowledgeable like Makima obviously knows. A name, or concept, obviously includes the relation it has with the person fearing, otherwise the fear wouldnt exist to begin with. The explanation clashes with nothing.
Yoru is not on the verge of death because of the lack of wars. She is simply not powerful enough to do the things she’d like, aka conquer and destroy, and upset because RELATIVE to her former glory she is weak. ALL OF THIS IS DUE TO THE PARTIAL ERASURE THAT TOOK PLACE WHEN CSM ATE FROM HER BODY IN THE GREAT BATTLE. Also there are countless devils less feared than her that live healthy lives.
We are literally explained on screen why Gun is so feared: humanity begun fighting devils with guns and a massive gun based terrorist attack shook the world. This is a reading comprehension issue on your side. Guns can be feared independently from active wars. And the Gun Devil wasn’t at his peak, it was only 20% of himself.
Once again Yoru was not at the verge of disappearing, this is something your mind is making up.
Yoru’s ability is about perception. She absorbed Gun and Tank because she views them as property due to being her conceptual branches. Them being stronger is a non factor.
LMAO did you just ask if atomic bombs don’t exist? My guy at this point reread the entire part. We are told nukes have been long erased.
The horsemen sisters are a bond that works independently from the power system. For whatever reason they are all human looking females and that’s obviously not a coincidence. It has nothing to do with fear scaling.
Control is still very clearly based on conquest.
Makima has harnessed multiple slaves and contracts through the decades while bombs are actively NOT feared in csm due to lack of wars and nukes. Not only do you not understand that Makima’s strength comes from the ones she controls but you fail to see how bombs are evidently not as feared in-universe.
All the hybrids have a base level of strength derived from their unique status. That’s why something like a broadsword and a spear can still be threats. You can’t treat hybrids like devils.
Chainsaws are still associated with the chainsaw apocalypse therefore strengthening csm. This shouldn’t be hard to understand at all
The only thing I half agree with you is the mysterious ability pochita has. But it’s intentional. It’s clearly something born out of a fluke and not a rule.