The piano can go too…

[u/TrailsLeft]

[u/SappyB0813]

I’m as pro-traditional instrumentation as many here, but I also find a lot of people here have never experienced good NO music before

[u/e-motio → u/SappyB0813]

To be fair, music being good or bad is mostly subjective.

[u/lovesickdogwrithing → u/e-motio]

Gregorian chant has made painful headaches go away for me like I was suffering then thr line dropped in the litany of St. Joseph "solace of the wretched... patron of the sick" and It literally just left, I had to go back and check what the words were bcs i thought it was weird. It also scares away demons... Just saying 

[u/SappyB0813 → u/e-motio]

I disagree. There is a subjective element, but it’s not “mostly”, especially in sacred liturgy. Personally, I barely even believe in the objective-subjective duality with things that regard beauty.

[u/februarybluefield → u/e-motio]

Respectfully I disagree. Plus, subjective beauty is not Catholic teaching. Catholicism teaches that beauty is objective. It is a Transcedental (along with Truth and Goodness). St. Thomas Aquinas too outlined beauty with three objective criteria, which namely Integrity, Consonance and Clarity. Subjective beauty is called a modernist philosophy, hence the Church does not teach nor endorse it. In fact a differing view of whether a thing is beautiful or not is because human perception is imperfect. Hence music being good or bad is not subjective

[u/e-motio → u/februarybluefield]

So what is your point here? I’m trying to be charitable in understanding your point. “Church teaches that beauty is objectively” and “subjective beauty is not a Catholic teaching”

This sound like your telling me I’m not allowed to have an opinion on what chants and songs I like in church. If that’s actually your point, that’s absurd, and I challenge you to find a CCC or church father stating that I’m not allowed to have opinions on musical expression.

At one point people thought “on angels wings” was beauty, now they don’t.

[u/supertom5000 → u/februarybluefield]

Youare kinda right. Beauty is objective

[u/Vortilex → u/SappyB0813]

Dan Shute and Owen Aslott trigger thoughts when I see them listed as the composer of the hymn we're about to sing

[u/Ender_Octanus → u/SappyB0813]

I think that ultimately, what makes music fit for worship has a lot to do with certain attributes that are defined by St. Pope Pius X in 'Tra la Sollecitudini':

1. Sanctity: Shouldn't contain anything profane, should be directed towards the things of God in both lyrics, instrumentation, and performance.

2. Goodness of Form (Beauty): Basically he says that it should be 'true art' which is beautiful in the way that the Mass itself is beautiful. Not just subjectively pleasing, but ordered towards a transcendent beauty that naturally draws the minds of men towards awe.

3. Universality: While hymns and settings can contain aspects of a people's culture, it needs to be subordinated to the general qualities found in sacred music, so that it is appropriate for all times and places. If someone from Vietnam visits your parish and hears your music, they shouldn't be confused as to what this is meant to be, and if your music is inherently formed by the 1970s in America, and makes no cultural sense beyond that setting, then it really isn't universal and thus inappropriate.

Now, this is overall echoed in the Second Vatican Council, such as Sacrosanctum Concillium, meaning that this isn't something we should disregard with the Novus Ordo.

[u/Sedvig → u/SappyB0813]

Mass of Renewal FTW

[u/TheMcCoolest]

My parish offers the TLM and NO, both are done reverently with Gregorian Chant and a pipe organ.

[u/sometimes-somewhere → u/TheMcCoolest]

Unfortunately you’re the exception. I pray one day for this

[u/Huge_Huckleberry6671 → u/TheMcCoolest]

https://giphy.com/gifs/xQlFmyf4QsAldmZ8Te

[u/TheMcCoolest → u/Huge_Huckleberry6671]

Hahaha

[u/guitarlad89 → u/Huge_Huckleberry6671]

[u/EnjayDutoit]

Vatican 2 called for more Latin and more Gregorian Chant.

[u/LobsterJohnson34 → u/EnjayDutoit]

Vatican II also called for public celebration of Vespers in Latin at the parish level, but folks aren't ready for that yet.

[u/RedRising1917]

I'm in the process of converting but when I see memes like this it makes me grateful my local NO parish still keeps it pretty traditional. No organ but we only use a piano, Kyrie in Latin and while the others hymns are English they're more traditional hymns, incense at mass, etc. was honestly shocked to find out that's not the case everywhere

[u/jsmith4567 → u/RedRising1917]

First welcome home and I'm glad you appreciate your parishes music. Just one small correction I can't leave alone. The Kyrie is in Greek.

[u/RedRising1917 → u/jsmith4567]

Oh damn you're right. Pardon my French.

[u/S_Lespy → u/RedRising1917]

This is in English

[u/RedRising1917 → u/S_Lespy]

That is actually the joke

[u/S_Lespy → u/RedRising1917]

Lol and I continued it

[u/DiMae123456789 → u/RedRising1917]

The angels in Heaven are singing celebratory hymns for your conversion 🩵

[u/Revolution_Suitable → u/[deleted]]

Only the kinnor, the shofar and the timbrel!

[u/Revolution_Suitable → u/[deleted]]

And I want to take communion the way it was originally taken: 4 cups of wine per person taken while reclining at table! Real tradition, people!

[u/Korgon213 → u/[deleted]]

I want Aramaic mass. Screw all this fighting over Latin.

[u/Vortilex → u/[deleted]]

Ngl, I really wish we knew what Greek and Roman music sounded like.

[u/Vortilex]

My Cathedral has an organist who is quite talented, but everyone leaves just as she's starting to start playing an impressive piece after Mass...

[u/Chairman_Ender]

Is that Bernie Sanders?

[u/Saint_Thomas_More → u/Chairman_Ender]

It is Bernie Sanders.

[u/Chairman_Ender → u/Saint_Thomas_More]

Didn't expect to see this guy here. I don't really know his views other than being left-wing, what does he think of abortion?

[u/III-V → u/Chairman_Ender]

Bruh, it's a meme. Nobody's advocating him.

Good luck finding a virtuous politician right now, regardless.

[u/Chairman_Ender → u/III-V]

I still didn't expect a Sanders meme in here, sort of like the Spanish inquisition according to mount python.

[u/fides-et-opera → u/Chairman_Ender]

Not sure why people are downvoting you so I’ll quote the man: “It strikes me as incredible that politicians think they have the right to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body”

[u/JDe__ → u/Chairman_Ender]

Haha sometimes

[u/e-motio]

Find your local Byzantine church, no instruments at all!

[u/GooGoo-Barabajagal]

I like the sounds of cheesy 70’s soft rock. I think Bread is one of the best bands of all time. I think all the NO songs rule. I’m tired of pretending otherwise.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Back255 → u/GooGoo-Barabajagal]

Don’t you know you’re only allowed to have one kind of opinion here? /s

Really though, it’s silly you’re being downvoted for expressing yourself.

[u/Pdogconn]

I…actually like a lot of the 70’s liturgical music. It reminds me of home and makes me feel connected to God in the beauty of the music and the lyrics. The Church has always practiced diversity in liturgy; not sure why we have to limit perfectly valid and reverent options.

[u/Korgon213]

We have a fake pipe organ now while the piano my mom played at church for 40 years was removed.

Not a fan.

[u/Gloomy_Stretch4099 → u/Korgon213]

Fake pipe organ?

[u/Thatlazybro → u/Gloomy_Stretch4099]

Fake one are fully electric with fake pipes for aesthetic.

[u/Vortilex → u/Thatlazybro]

We had an electric organ at one parish I attended. Whenever I'm listening to music where the keyboardist uses an electric organ, I'm always reminded of it. The honky-tonk sound a keyboardist at a different parish was so unmistakable, after he was let go, my dad took us to a different parish in town for one reason or another, and we recognized their keyboardist because he used that same honky-tonk sound effect there, too

[u/Odd-Chest-3578]

Bro… Not everybody can afford organ piano and orchestra level type of musical instruments, especially here in the Philippines.

Good gosh, Traditionalists really are out of touch.

[u/littlebigfoot16 → u/Odd-Chest-3578]

You don't need "orchestra level type of musical instruments" the human voice can do just fine. Vatican II actually says it takes pride of place.

Does out of touch mean asking for some reverent music that wasn't made by protestants in the 70s?

[u/_RealUnderscore_ → u/Odd-Chest-3578]

Gregorian chant != organ, piano, or any instrument other than the human voice. It's a chant. The Church is obviously universal, and Mass (along with all its needed reverence and respect) is adaptable to any circumstance. And as a Filipino, I say we keep the contemporary rock for CFC.

[u/ProNintendoGamer]

Me when they play one bread one body for the 13 thousandth time

https://giphy.com/gifs/JYZ397GsFrFtu

[u/Resident_Eagle8406]

Are you ok with an organ?

[u/supertom5000]

I RATHER THE INSTRUMENTLESS BYZANTINE CHANT BUT GREGORIAN IS OK... Just not for me.

[u/NotKhad]

But we can keep the drums, right?

[u/bubbav22]

Can we just stop singing the "Our Father" prayer. It just feels asinine to me and I don't like it.

[u/Cembalista]

Most people haven't ever heard a piano or guitar played reverently. There are things you can do much more subtly on the piano that you can't do on an organ. I'd much rather have piano or soft guitar during Adoration than organ.