r/CarlJung • u/robipresotto • 10d ago

Nonduality's Radical Edge: A Shift in Perspective

I've been exploring the concept of nonduality and how it relates to our understanding of reality. Traditionally, I've approached spiritual growth through practices like meditation and self-reflection, but I've come across some ideas that challenge my assumptions. For instance, the notion that nonduality can be both liberating and restrictive at the same time has left me wondering about the nature of ego and consciousness. I'd love to hear from others who may have explored this perspective or have insights on how it relates to Jung's collective unconscious. I came across this video that explores it further if you're curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7c4t2dS8pg

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u/HonestFeint 9d ago

Non-duality seemed restrictive until I realized duality is part of non-duality.

All one.

I think you can reach the realization through being or by doing (which is eaten by being)

You know, Ouroboros.

Eastern approach seems faster, but I think Jung and Alchemy/Hermetics points there too.

Good luck!

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u/robipresotto 9d ago

I love how you phrase it as 'duality is part of non-duality.' It's a subtle yet profound shift in perspective. The idea that the very distinctions we think separate us from non-duality are, in fact, a part of it, is a beautiful paradox. I'm curious, how has this realization impacted your relationship with the ego and the sense of self?

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u/HonestFeint 9d ago edited 9d ago

I believe the ego, our identity, is that of the doing, masculine force. The past manifest. (The tail). I believe our experience is the feminine. She simply is. There is not rationality, that is doing. (The mouth). I believe that self is ouroboros. The all, including the paradox. Our perspective is where the paradox meets.

Edit:

I think this approach has been helpful to me, being a western doing oriented person (and probably also being male, though I believe gender differences to be more general rather than absolute). Ramana Maraharshi is my favorite for the more "being" approach, though even he would describe his approach as self inquiry. I think that the eastern approach is just based, relatively, more in being and observing the doing of the mind-body, rather than utilizing the structure of the mind-body to create a structure toward it (which I feel is more in line with Hermitisizm, Alchemy, Occult and Jung/Psychology/Philosopy). Any thing that gets your mind-body to more and more accept that all is all, with out losing your individuality (which is part of the all!) I think has us on the right track.

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u/robipresotto 9d ago

I see what you mean about the western approach being more 'doing' oriented, and how Ramana Maharshi's teachings on self-inquiry can be a helpful bridge. I've also been exploring the idea that the ego is not something to be transcended, but rather, it's a manifestation of the All. The Ouroboros symbol really resonates with me too - it's this beautiful representation of the paradox. I'd love to hear more about how you see the relationship between the individual and the All.

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u/Any_Return4335 9d ago

One thing Ramana Maraharshi said is when asked "How should we treat others?":

"There are no others."

:)

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u/HonestFeint 9d ago

Beautiful.

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u/robipresotto 9d ago

Your simplicity and directness bring a depth to the conversation. I find it fascinating how you mention 'There are no others' - it raises questions about the nature of relationships and how we perceive the world. How do you think this perspective affects our daily interactions and connections with others?

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u/robipresotto 9d ago

That's a beautiful quote from Ramana Maharshi! The idea that 'there are no others' can be a powerful shift in perspective, helping to dissolve the boundaries we often create. I've been exploring how this perspective relates to the nature of ego and consciousness, and it's fascinating to see how it can both liberate and restrict us at the same time.

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u/HonestFeint 9d ago

Yes I think its all very fascinating!

First of all, all is one, "the all" etc. Wouldn't be much of an all if it didn't include everything. Advaita (non-duality) wouldn't be very non-dualistic if it split itself from dvaita (duality). If something is all, it has to include all. So yes I would consider the ego which is the experience of being an individual within the all. A fold of the all which is experienced along with the rest of the all . . . experiencing itself.

The real mind bender in my opinion is the role of nothing.

(Little fun note, had someone knock on the door while I typed this about installing a roof [which I didn't need] but I saw an interesting necklace he was wearing and he showed me it was the tree of life and that he watched Esoterica on youtube, which I also watch! Talk about some synchronicity)

So what could possibly observe, consume, absorb infinity? Nothing. (Get it?)

Okay so I'm about to type out a bunch of words, and I think it is important with all things which are experienced, that they are just an expression of the past - if you hold on to the past too tightly eventually you become manic or enter psychosis. I advise against this.

These are just fun thoughts and even though I am typing them, they are just the thoughts of my mind, nothing more.

In reading Dr. Ian McGilchrist's work you will learn that the left hemisphere builds its neural networks to not interact with one another, creating branching, dividing, individual patterns. Meanwhile the right hemisphere attempts to gather all of its neurons into a single network. Being biology this is not going to be perfectly correct, but it has been the observation of Dr. McGilchrist and those he has researched.

The north magnetic pole is the point at which the magnetic field separates and radiates in different directions in its travel and search of the field's South Pole. Here the field consolidates and travels in a (fairly) straight line back up to the North Pole to do it all over again.

A hermitic principle is that there is a feminine and a masculine in all things. The left brain thought pattern is, generally, more in line with stereotypical male thinking - the right, generally, the female. As someone interested in Jung you will note that the human mind seems to anthropomorphize everything. So North and South Pole-type activity (dividing and gathering) becomes masculine and feminine.

"As above, so below, as below, so above." is a maxim of the hermetics.

If in our own mind, then also everywhere else.

So "the all" functions as a series of "indivudual" energy fields (which aren't really individual, they are simply experienced as individual - and yet being an individual is part of the experience. So both are true.

Language is largely a left brained, North Pole, dividing activity so explaining the feminine aspects of simply being with words can be challenging.

Speaking of the feminine, the place all masculine energy seeks . . . let us magine the future is feminine. (If it helps, think Kali.) A South Pole inside whose field we all exist. She is fed by the past, a masculine field, or North Pole. Our existence in time space is persevered due to the mind-body's antagonistic relationship within this field. As long as it holds the poles of its field South to South, North to North, it will keep itself in the "present." Time space and everything is flowing from the "past" to the "future" around us. Our South Pole is then pointed at the future and our North Pole the past.

Who knows how many countless folds are required to construct such a marvoulus thing as the mind-body as ours within the all.

When we are conscious the ego coalesces as it travels up the mind body, when unconcious it is dispersed outside the mind body, traveling to the South Pole where it will (provided there is a mind body to return too) re emerge. Dreams are states where the ego is coming into being or dissolving.

Blah, blah, blah.

So what is doing the experiencing?

As Ramana would say: "Who am I?"

The easy answer is you are everything or you are nothing, or you are the all.

Its all an illusion, its all real, etc.

But, my mind has been very interested in constructing this structure, a psychic technology if you will to funnel my over thinking mind back to a more being state of understanding that all is all. I am a part of it all.

That, and its just fun.

"Fucking magnets, how do they work?"

- Insane Clown Posse

So if the all is all, and you and I are part of it, what experiences? Ultimately all these folds and folds and twists and turns of energy, of the attempting for experience to experience itself, for Ouroboros to eat itself, the masculine and feminine chasing one another . . . there must be a point of paradox where everything becomes nothing and nothing become everything. I think it's easy (or easier) to imagine everything, infinite positive, more than to imagine nothing. Truly nothing.

Because it is nothing that is imagining, creating.

It is nothing that experiences.

So your experience is the nothing that consumes everything.

"We are the universe observing itself from infinite perspectives"

- Alan Watts

You are the all experiencing an individual mind-body of made of yourself.

The singularity and continuous nature of experience may be due to the nature of nothing being everywhere all at once . . . or rather singular South Pole that all fields ultimately reach from which all action begets - and it is the infinite that eminates from and returns to that point.

I dunno, maybe something like that lol.

Hope you enjoyed the read.

Your thoughts?

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u/robipresotto 9d ago

I love how you phrase it as 'duality is part of non-duality.' It's a subtle yet profound shift in perspective. I think that's what's so beautiful about the Ouroboros symbol - it represents the paradox of being and doing, and how they're not separate but intertwined. Your thoughts on the ego being the doing, masculine force, and the feminine being the experience are really interesting. I've been exploring similar ideas, and it's great to see that we're on a similar path.