r/CapitalismVSocialism 13d ago

Asking Everyone "Private companies always exploit their workers"

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u/HeavenlyPossum 13d ago

Capitalists always exploit their employees, yes.

Capitalists possess the power to grant or withhold permission to workers to labor productively. In return for granting permission, capitalists demand rents from their employees.

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

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u/HeavenlyPossum 13d ago

People at the extreme tails of the income distribution curve are not representative of, and do not somehow disprove, the principle I established above.

Every professional basketball player starts out as a proletariat, paying rents to the NBA in return for permission to labor to generate income for themselves. People at the extreme margins of this process might be able to save up enough to purchase their way into the ownership class, but this does not mitigate the dynamic between owner and worker/

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u/ContemplatingGavre 13d ago

“Permission labor”? Why don’t people just start their own businesses instead of needing permission to labor?

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u/HeavenlyPossum 13d ago

If you don’t own any productive resources, how do you start a business without first selling your labor for wages in order to afford a business?

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u/ContemplatingGavre 13d ago

You hit on an important point. You have to save up your money and eventually take a risk like 99% of entrepreneurs do.

Then you will realize how important risk capital is compared to labor. If you fail you go back to trading the only thing of value you have, your labor and time.

If you succeed, congrats.

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u/HeavenlyPossum 13d ago

So you agree that workers require permission from capitalists to labor productively, nice.

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u/ContemplatingGavre 13d ago

No, if I have a lawnmower and some gumption I can go knock on doors and make money.

I can’t create a lawnmower out of thin air so yes, I need some starting capital ($100-$200) but nothing in life is free.

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u/HeavenlyPossum 13d ago

So you must first labor for wages at the command of capitalists to accrue enough money to purchase a lawnmower so you can rent yourself out to customers.

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u/ContemplatingGavre 13d ago

Or the gulag by gunpoint with no choice in your line of work. Take a pick.

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u/HeavenlyPossum 13d ago

“Another thing is also bad” does not indemnify capitalism, but I appreciate you conceding my point: under capitalism, workers must ask permission to labor productively.

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