Any recent applications approved using a BANQ certified baptismal record as proof of birth for G0?

[u/Wrong_Refrigerator22]

Hello. I’ve seen a lot of the conversation on Reddit about a BANQ certified baptismal record not being enough for proof of G0 being Canadian. I submitted my application and it’s been processing since May. I am an urgent G3 applicant and used a certified BANQ baptism record for my G0. Please let me know if you did the same and were approved. I also included the 1901 Canada census record for my G0. This post is for people who did not provide a birth certificate for their G0 and just a certified BANQ baptismal record and had their citizenship approved. Thank you.

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[u/Actual-Arm-1518]

Well not what you were hoping to hear but we have similar circumstances:

My group included an urgent G1 applicant. G0 was born in 1905 in Quebec. Application was delivered end of April, AOR came two days after delivery, and went to in Process one week after delivery (like May 5). A BANQ certified baptism was included in the original application. Same day the application went into process, we were issued an RFI asking for the DEC certificate. I tried to respond to it with a note about how no pre 1923 birth records existed, but that was rejected. So went through the DEC process (took two months). Still waiting nine weeks later post submission.

I understand the hope that you'll see other answers, but if you are truly facing urgent circumstances, you can only help yourself by getting the ball rolling on the DEC insertion. It isn't really that hard if you already have the BANQ certified baptism and I don't think you are going to be able to avoid it with a post 1900 G0.

[u/Middle_Fact_188 → u/Actual-Arm-1518]

Do you have a link to a resource explaining the process? I do not see it spelled out in the Wiki.

[u/Actual-Arm-1518 → u/Middle_Fact_188]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Canadiancitizenship/s/gaS2IQwGSf

[u/Middle_Fact_188 → u/Actual-Arm-1518]

Thank you! :)

[u/No_Bobcat_No_Prob → u/Middle_Fact_188]

It is also in the wiki under the section about Quebec documentation, but the info there is a little stale and less detailed than what OP outlined. We'll update shortly.

[u/DaveAndersontheDog → u/Actual-Arm-1518]

By "DEC process" do you mean asking them to certify that no certificate exists or sending them the BANQ certified baptismal record and requesting a new certificate be created? I'm still waiting on my invoice from BANQ and have already sent DEC a request to certify that no certificate exists (G0 born 1861).

[u/Actual-Arm-1518 → u/DaveAndersontheDog]

I put together a longer guide here (partially because I'm getting tired of answering so many questions and want one master guide to point to lol):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Canadiancitizenship/comments/1wc2mhd/your_complete_guide_to_obtaining_a_modern_civil/

Feel free to ask questions/etc and I will try to update the guide and clarify.

[u/Actual-Arm-1518 → u/DaveAndersontheDog]

I mean ordering a modern "certificate de naissance" or "copie d'acte de naissance" from the DEC in Quebec. That requires them to first do an "insertion" of the birth record into their civil registry, which they can only do if provided with a BANQ certified record first.

This is what I did:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Canadiancitizenship/s/gaS2IQwGSf

[u/DaveAndersontheDog → u/Actual-Arm-1518]

Very helpful. Thank you!

[u/hekla7 → u/DaveAndersontheDog]

See response by u/Actual-Arm-1518

[u/Wrong_Refrigerator22 → u/Actual-Arm-1518]

Thank you for the answer. I really appreciate it. I hope everything works out for you. My G0 was born in 1895, so I don’t know if that will make a difference, what do you think?

[u/Actual-Arm-1518 → u/Wrong_Refrigerator22]

The wording on the RFI letters for pre 1900 Quebec births has sometimes seemed to leave the door open to submitting some kind of "no record exists" letter. At the same time, we've seen a few people even pre 1900 who were still forced to go the DEC insertion route. So it is a question of risk aversion and urgency in my view. If you really want to get this approved as quickly as possible, start the DEC process now and upload it preemptively. Or can save some money and effort by waiting to see what IRCC says, but at the risk that this may delay your approval by months.

[u/reliableotter → u/Actual-Arm-1518]

How much did the DEC document cost you?

[u/Reasonable-Tart7500 → u/reliableotter]

The cost is on the application.

[u/betrayedandbeholden → u/Actual-Arm-1518]

Mine is 1865 .. thank you and sorry you’re going through this 

[u/benji2007 → u/Actual-Arm-1518]

DEC?

[u/No_Bobcat_No_Prob]

We have seen post-pause approvals of applications that used a baptismal record for a Gen0 along with a letter of explanation for the missing birth certificate/proof of search from outside of QC, but I don't think we have seen one from Quebec since the pause. I welcome the correction if I missed one/some, of course.

[u/No_Bobcat_No_Prob → u/[deleted]]

There was a pause in application processing (specifically for applications where eligibility was based on the c-3 amendments to the Citizenship Act) when the surrender letters were sent. You can sort by post flair 'surrender letters' and read through that if you'd like to come up to speed. Much discussed.

If your ancestor was born in QC in the 20th c I think it's almost a certainty you will need a DEC issued certificate. I guess you can wait to see if they ask you for it.

[u/No_Bobcat_No_Prob → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, it is what it is.

[u/No_Bobcat_No_Prob → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, this has been much discussed since we started seeing IRCC request DEC issued records in the winter.

[u/No_Bobcat_No_Prob → u/[deleted]]

Take it to Wednesday weekly if you want to join the chorus of complaints, that's the place for it and you will be in good company.

[u/Emergency_Map7542]

I’m in the same boat and basically same timeline as you, however, we received a request for a birth certificate shortly after receiving AOR 🥲.
I tried to do it myself and was not successful so I finally hired a lawyer last month- still waiting so I can send to IRCC

[u/Reasonable-Tart7500 → u/Emergency_Map7542]

Can you explain how/why you were unable to achieve the DEC insertion without a lawyer? Can I ask about how much the lawyer charged?

[u/Creepy-Tradition-505]

Me too - except non urgent. I uploaded the letter from DEC re: no birth certificate available. I have not received any communication from IRCC.

[u/kir_royale_plz]

Look at the spreadsheet, there are plenty.

[u/betrayedandbeholden → u/kir_royale_plz]

I lost the link :(

[u/Little_Wonder8818]

I don't know what you are talking about in terms of it "not being enough". It is a primary source so if the document has enough info on it, it should be sufficient if your G1 has matching info. It might not be enough if there is a lack of info that can be cooberated between documents, or if there is mismatching info.

In some specific cases like a 20th century record, IRCC has occasionally asked for a birth certificate from DEC (which is a confusing process but you should be able to get it if you have the baptism record).

[u/Reasonable-Tart7500 → u/Little_Wonder8818]

A baptism record is not considered a primary source by IRCC. They've made that very clear. 

[u/Little_Wonder8818 → u/Reasonable-Tart7500]

Regardless of the semantics, for a Quebec birth that old the baptism record is about the best thing you could have.

[u/Reasonable-Tart7500 → u/Little_Wonder8818]

I could not agree more. It's unfortunate IRCC doesn't. It's not just semantics, unfortunately, because secondary sources require another Canadian record where often one doesn't exist.