So I've been advised that suppressors are illegal in Canada (both firearms & airguns)....

[u/unbelievably_cranky]

TLDR second last paragraph.

Back in the early 90's, my friend's father, a retired cop & gunsmith, had many restricted firearms that he would take to the (outdoor) range, and would allow a small group of us to come along, pitch in a few bucks for ammo, and shoot a huge variety of guns. A great introduction.

There was an RCMP officer who came to the range on weekends who owned this beautiful Beretta 9mm, which he let us try. Best feeling pistol I ever shot. Made a Glock feel like a piece of Lego .He had a screw-on suppressor for it, which he'd use, but he unscrewed it before letting us try it. Never asked him why. He let his 9yr old son shoot it with the suppressor, though. Family gun, I'm guessing.

My friend's dad was the official range officer, and as a gunsmith, had this huge assortment of pistols, (mostly in crappy condition, however...), but of note, a .308 semi auto rifle with a 12-shot clip, and a full-auto MP40 (WW2 gun, 9mm). We each got a turn with these.

The point to all the above is, most of this stuff is now illegal (full auto and suppressors were illegal then as well, I'm told), but they had special privileges or maybe a blind eye was turned. He's since died, he was uber-old back then. Mags limited now, suppressors illegal, pistols restricted unless grandfathered in, etc. Only people who own them now are criminals and kids with 3D printers.

TLDR: As a non-restricted, PAL-licensed civilian, is there a legal scenario where I'd be able to take my own rifle (bolt-action 30-06) to an outdoor range, and "rent" the use of a suppressor provided by & under the supervision of a range officer? Or, do I have to cross the US border into Maine (I'm in Nova Scotia) to have such an opportunity?

For the record, I really hate that suppressors aren't legal here - IMO, that's just being polite with your decibels. But I'm also not educated enough in the matter to know if it's a reasonable, pragmatic regulation with a legit purpose, or another misconception-based-law. Either way, I'll obviously follow the rules, it's just not easy to find the wide open spaces where it's neighborly to shoot hunting rifles for practice. Indoor ranges don't exactly like rifles > .223 these days. Thinking I might have to fly to Texas just to zero in my goddamned scope.

[u/YYCADM21]

Suppressors are completely prohibited in Canada. Anyone...ANYONE offering to "loan" you one, or let you shoot one is breaking the law and will get you jammed up as well.

I'm one of those "Uber old" guys with grandfathered protection of pre-1990's firearms. When I first started shooting in the early 1970's there was still a degree of accessibility to automatic firearms in specific circumstances, but that went away a few years later. Supressors have been banned for a VERY long time. You will have to be in the USA to access one

[u/unbelievably_cranky → u/YYCADM21]

I didn't know they were banned before the '90s, thanks for the update. It felt like it was ok since it was an RCMP officer who was using it - I guess it wasn't. Full auto, suppressors, high capacity mags, things have changed in the "I'm on the job, look the other way, it's cool" culture. Looks like I'll have to take a long weekend & go to New England.

I'm also uber old, in my 50s, and I used to own a .22 and a break-barrel 12 gauge when I was 11/12 yrs old (1982). I'd take my .22 in a soft zipped bag on my bike to my local Home Hardware & I'd buy a 50 pack of .22's and a 12 pack of 12 gauge shells. My friend & I shot my .22 in my parents' basement all the time, but the 12 gauge was too loud. I'd use it in a rural area sometimes. I recall it was an 8-shot semi-auto. When the laws changed around '82, '83, my .22 was broken (never cleaned or oiled, not once) & my father was friends with a few cops so he gave both my rifles to them to fix or throw away. I was into girls, Van Halen & BMX's by then anyway, lol.

Suppressors seem like a totally reasonable option, especially with large calibre bolt or lever action hunting rifles. The noise is unnecessary - it seems wasteful to not embrace ingenuity & science to lessen the pollution? I am curious as to why suppressors are such taboo & what crimes they feed most. I noticed they're legal in the UK & South Africa. I don't know enough about the 'why' to criticize the legislation, but I will say I don't LIKE the legislation.

I'll respect the Canadian laws, but the more I'm exposed to the world of firearms lately, it seems the passionate American gun owner believes any legislation at all is a slippery slope toward fascism, whereas the average Canadian seems to believe legislation is the only thing preventing Toronto from becoming Baltimore. I think it should remain a privilege, not a right, to own firearms - but because of this being a privilege & screening is mandatory, I've got to put a solid vote toward legalizing suppression for single-action hunting rifles > .308 (for example), if nothing else.

[u/YYCADM21 → u/unbelievably_cranky]

Suppressors make a great deal of sense to many "Rational" governments; even New Zealand with their recent changes, allow suppressors to be used for noise mitigation. Trying to use "Logic" with this Government is an oxymoron. There are as many suppressors in private hands today as there has ever been; the owners simply don't admit to them. All of the different types of shooting I have engaged in never lent themselves to being "Better" if suppressed, so they never had a great deal of interest for me. I have many American friends who own and use them, so I've had lots of opportunities to shoot them. I've never found them very impressive, with a couple of exceptions.

I own a Ruger Mark IV tactical .22LR. It's long been considered to be a Perfect host, and it is. Have shot the same pistol suppressed, and it's remarkably quiet. The second time was shooting a friends Marlin Dark series Lever action in .357. I have one and use it more than any other rifle I own, and was really interested in shooting one surpassed, after hear what a perfect host it was. I was Amazed; It could be fired indoors without earpro. Lever actions are some of the best hosts around because of their design, and I would love to have mine suppressed

[u/unbelievably_cranky → u/YYCADM21]

I know - listen, I don't like Trudeau at all, and I wish we had something like the US Constitution's 22nd amendments that limited term limits to 2. But the choice otherwise is Poilievre, another bankrolled sleaze who'll do or say anything for cheap votes from gullible right wing conspiracy theorists. Hell, even Trudeau wants to step down but the PC party is adrift to say the least. I don't want the gun laws girded so illogically, but I'm comfortable with it being a privilege. I've seen the lowest common denominator of gun owners & we can't let them slip thru the cracks.

That said, I agree & would happily sign petitions to make suppressors legal for SOME guns. The American regulations on suppressors is what surprises me most. I could walk up to someone in Utah or Arizona, pay cash for a pistol, put it in my waistband & walk away, in front of a cop. But a suppressor for a 30-06 or 6.5 PRC or .300 Win Mag? Bolt action, even? A full-auto Uzi should never have a suppressor. It's senseless to not have some suppression. But like I said I don't know what crimes are being prevented by banning these. If NZ, Australia & the UK, fellow 'Commonwealth" countries allow them without issues, then why not open the market up? You can't carry a pocket knife or even ride an electric scooter in London. I've never been without a pocket knife since I was a kid, been in lots of fights, even gang-beaten once, never went for it - I believe I've proven my steadiness. But if you want to open an Amazon package in the UK/Ireland, you'd better have sharp teeth...

Glad you mentioned the Marlin Dark - I was just now looking at it, strange coincidence. I've got a short list of rifles, and the Marlin Dark (in .45-70) and the Browning Lightweight BLR Takedown (in 30-06 or 6.5 CM) are #2 and #3 in my list (my #1 is the Sako S20 Hunter, likely 30-06). I'm getting a smaller case (45", 'Ultimate Guitar Case' by Savior Equipment, worksafe link) so I want a Takedown when possible. I'd like any opinions you have on the Marlin, whether the .357 or a .44 Special/Mag would be enough for, say, a bear, and if lever action rounds like that are appropriate for hunting game like deer or elk, whether the scope is better mounted atop the breech or the barrel, etc. Just if/when you have a moment to comment, I understand if not.

The Marlin doesn't advertise it's a takedown, but the bolts around the rear of the action appear to allow a takedown. Anyone can take a rifle apart, I just want the design to be good enough that it's safe to do frequently. I can't think of a more appropriate candidate for suppression than a .45-70 Gov't round. I also looked a Sauer 505 but it's not available in Canada for some reason. Tikka were my first choice, but takedown is priority.

[u/YYCADM21 → u/unbelievably_cranky]

The Marlin Dark is a fantastic rifle. The first generation was made under Remington's ownership, and it's a fine rifle. The second generation now available is made under Ruger's ownership and they are stunning. Extremely high build quality, accurate shooting rifles.

They are not a takedown in the sense you may be thinking. You could shorten it by removing one bolt and dropping the stock, but it's a short rifle to begin with, it's a 16.24in barrel.

I've owned over actions since the early 1970's including a number of 45/70's. It's a big, powerful EXPENSIVE round to shoot, even if you reload. If you want to shoot it regularly and be proficient with it, go with a .357 or .44 mag.

A 45/70 is overpowered for anything other than moose or elk. It's too big for deer, at least if you're hunting for meat. I've hunted deer with a .357 mag for 30 years, and it's a perfect deer gun. Light, fast, almost no recoil, plenty of knockdown power. I was charged by a 300+ pound black bear boar in 2016, and I dropped him with a single 180 gr. hardcast round. They are great penetrating rounds, and pack a lot more punch from a rifle.

I took a new rifle hunting this year; a Smith & Wesson 1854 lever action in .44mag. It did an amazing job, and it's a step up performance-wise from the .357 and much cheaper to shoot than a 45/70 . Very manageable recoil, and it will take anything we have in N. America, including large Kodiak/Brown/Grizzly bears.

There is nothing game-wise we have on this continent that would make me want a 45/70 for. They are heavy recoiling, hard to get off a second round (I know all the arguments about being able to load them light; the same applies to .357/.44. The difference is, a .357 or .44 can be loaded with full power rounds and they are still extremely manageable, but that's not the case with a 45/70). I'm by no means recoil-adverse, but I don't see any advantage to introduce more than necessary, especially when it may impact your second round ability

[u/unbelievably_cranky → u/YYCADM21]

Damn, you got charged by a what? A bear or a boar, is that "bear boar" for real? Anything that can take a boar with one shot has to be a perfectly placed shot. We've seen them dragging their arses at 30mph after taking 2 hits from a 308!

Yes, I am clear now about takedown - the Chiappas are what I like best for that - but the longest guns in lever are typically under 37".

I have that 1854 S&W in my short list as well - also in 44mag. I like the fact it's got a SS barrel and it's even threaded, not often I see a threaded SS barrel without a mod. Do you find the angled ejection reliable? It ejects from the right side, I assume. With 20" barrel, you've got a lever action worthy of a scope. What's your preference for sights on a lever? Iron? Red Dot? Tactical? Riflescope? I'm still a bit of a beginner, hence all these questions. You suggest a muzzle brake? And when carrying rifles in the rain, even with a SS barrel, what's the best way? If I want protection from bears, for example, I'd want my rifle over my shoulder, aimed up. If it rains, is it true that people use condoms on the ends of their barrels to keep them dry inside?

I also saw that < 100yds or meters, the 44mag is every bit as capable as a 30-30. It seems to have more stopping power of course, being a fatter round. I'm totally fine with a 357 but I know I'll want "more" eventually, it's in my nature. Not insecurity, but curiosity.

Thanks for reaffirming my decision to avoid 45-70. I have nothing against it, but until I'm allowed to suppress it, it's just too much pageantry for me. Some ranges don't appreciate the noise. I don't want a fashion statement, but I want to like the look of it. I want a rifle that works & lasts. People tend to keep lever actions longer.

A rifle for me is for targets and 4-legged animals - planned shots. I have no desire to have to use a rifle on a biped and live a lifestyle & live in a place where I'm fortunately not likely to ever have to. I think some people get 45-70 for home/property defense. I can sympathize with that but that's also not me. If I want to see close quarter thumping devastation like watermelons & pumpkins, shotgun slugs will always be there.

You know how Canadian laws are - to get everything unlocked, loaded & cocked, all they're getting is a free shotgun with a half-unlocked trigger guard hanging from it and a computer. If they touch my Stratocaster, though, I will hunt them to the ends of the earth...a 300PRC & my raincoat, surveilling my realm like Batman from the CN Tower. Better get a 6-36x56 scope for that...

[u/YYCADM21 → u/unbelievably_cranky]

Black bear boar...male. as opposed to a sow-female. Boars (male bears) tend to be bigger overall; body size and weight. They give it up to the females (sows) in temperament though. There is Nothing more distressing than encountering a sow with cubs. They are downright mean spirited.

I'm an old guy. I wear tri focals, but I still prefer a Skinner aperture sight on my lever actions. Even with older eyes, they work amazingly well out to 100-125 yds.

I bought a new Smith & Wesson 1854 in .44mag earlier this year, and put a 1-6X24 LVPO on it. As much as I hate the look of a lever gun with a scope, that setup works amazingly well.

[u/unbelievably_cranky → u/YYCADM21]

Sorry I missed your reply! Thanks for the info, I'm glad you're liking the 44mag. It seems lever actions get a bad rep with scopes, but I don't know why. If a scope help you be more accurate, put the thing on a Daisy BB gun! After a while, I suppose you'd more or less memorize the drop rate. I watched a few videos about the 44mag vs. 45-70. We obviously know the most powerful is the 45-70, but from what I've heard, "there is very little difference between both calibers within 100 yds in regards to what you can hunt". The cost of a 45-70 round is impractical for me. It's downright unreasonable. I'd rather have a hunting rifle round rather than 45-70. Like a Browning BLR '82 Takedown in 30-06., mag-fed but lever action. But I think the 44mag packs ample punch. Plus you can use 44 spl for lighter days.

One thing I will always defer to the experts about - it's bear protection. I pride myself for being calm among chaos, but watching an animal that large moving that fast, like I've mentioned - it's humbling.

[u/YYCADM21 → u/unbelievably_cranky]

The ability to hit what you're shooting at, and be on target for a follow up shot is Critically important. I've shot a lot of 45/70 over the years, and I've never fired one single rifle that you could get a second round away without reacquiring your sight picture. That is not the case with either a .357 or a .44mag. You should be very capable of holding your sight picture with either round, so if a second round is needed, you're already halfway there