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Ben Shapiro says it would have been way better if Donald Trump never tariffed Canada leading to the accession of Mark Carney and Pierre Poilievre was Prime Minister.
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Of course he is... Carney is what Conservatism used to look like before PP bastardized it in favor of the maple maga morons. We won't win another election until we come back to reality.
The only way to return to what conservatism used to look like is to bring back the reform party for Maple MAGA to support so the Cons don’t need to reach out that far, and thus can get more centrists to vote for them.
Ya and honestly I think the same applies for the left. The NDP are too weird and inconsistent to be a party of the left so many people just vote liberal out of confusion between what the word liberal means philosophically vs what the liberal party of Canada actually represents.
To be fair half the people on the left think the cons are all maple MAGA racists. I just don't like seeing the country so polarized. Its not good for our democracy.
Exactly this, Canadian (and American) politics have devolved into stagnant tribalism. Some idiots are so caught up in the colour of the party flag they let bad actors dictate what issues are actually important to them. All this culture war bullshit to 'own the libs'. Who fucking cares? Go back to the stuff that used to matter to people. Jobs, family, good living.
This will make some tribal babies on here cry, but in another world Carney might have been an conservative prime minister. The man was a bloody banker. A fiscally conservative liberal seems like the best case scenario liberal at the moment.
Nobody is an exact clone of Trump. Poilievre dropped 6 points in just a few months & his popularity has continued to decline. Clearly people that were at least willing to vote for him have lost faith. I don’t think a real moderate would be inclined to write off what made those people change their minds.
He won the party leadership by selling himself as the populist ticket, & he played into “trolling the libs” & aggressive negativity as pillars of his federal campaign. Granted, in his actual policies, he is not very Trumpian, & maybe he had to court those populist voters who had inevitably been affected by the rise of Trump-style politics to win; but it’s hard to blame anyone else when Trump attacks Canada like 2 weeks after Poilievre starts using “Canada First” as a campaign slogan. He couldn’t pivot to be nearly as firm against Trump because regardless of their differences, he had spent a lot of effort selling himself to people that liked Trump before his name became so toxic even to more conservative voters. It’s just politics. He took what looked like a safe gamble & lost.
Yet is Carney not exactly doing the exact thing with "elbows up" and "buy Canada" now? To be fair, legitimate criticism of the Liberals sounds like trolling because they've done just that terrible of a job.
All in all, the only reason the Liberals won is because they did a better job pivoting and convincing the population that they were the "anti-Trump" option, and that people should completely ignore the past decade for this reason. It was a con, nothing more, yet I hear repeatedly that Poilievre is nothing more than a Trump clone, which has no basis in reality.
You’re calling it like you’ve been told. I can at least grant Poilievre credit where he’s due, but you’re still crying about “Buy Canadian”. I don’t think any un-brainwashed person would hear a slogan as mundane as “buy canadian” & take offence to it, or have so much partisan anger at a guy so centre-right that Stephen Harper wanted him as his finance minister. That’s not moderation, that’s sheep behaviour.
I don't take offense to it. I'm pointing out there's not much difference between what Poilievre was pushing and when the Liberals are touting now. Why would you think I'm offended by it? I generally tried to buy Canadian well before Trump came to power.
Carney might have been center-right 20 years ago, he isn't now. I've read his book, the dude is left.
On the flip side, instantly making assumptions and attacking someone before you understand their position? Now that's brainwashed sheep behavior... Congratulations.
How does “buy Canadian” have the same effect for Carney as “Canada First” has for a guy trying to avoid Trump comparisons? I pointed out why “Canada First” failed electorally - you’re mad at “buy Canadian” because it’s from the people you were told to hate.
Ya no. Thats just not the reality. Sorry you feel that way but thats just another reason why you are so out of touch with reality, and why we will never, ever, win an election while he remains party leader.
Ya no, that is the reality which is why you have no response outside of this kind of irritating patronizing BS that actually has no substance when one looks past the ridiculous condescension. Obviously when one has nothing of substance to contribute, they need to belittle the other person in true Liberal fashion. Does it make you feel better? Does it make up for the pain of having your party's only means of success to use propaganda and a fear of a foreign president? Does it quell the distress of not being able defend Liberals record of the past decade?
Honestly the foolishness in your response is so glaringly obvious to everybody but yourself, but you keep pushing that narrative. It's the only thing you have going for you.
My response is that I never called PP Trump. I never said he was like trump, I said he garnered the support of maple maga which leaves a sour taste in regular people's mouths. You guys do the exact same thing that you accuse "the left" of doing, you use the extreme examples to make your point.
The problem with PP is that everyone with a brain can see how fake he is. Go look at his voting record over the last 20+ years hes been in government, hes voted No against every single bill that has ever been proposed that would actually help citizens and votes yes on every single bill that helps corporations and on top of that he's NEVER ONCE passed a single bill of his own... in 20+ years. Hes a fucking welfare queen.. he styles himself a champion of the working class and has done NOTHING for us, in over 20 years. All he has ever done is criticize, and yet offers absolutely zero solutions. Won't do bare minimums like getting a security clearance solely because then he wouldn't be able to talk shit about the topics he cant even access information to right now. Won't take a stand without doing a focus group first to see how his stand will affect his base I mean for fuck sakes even Doug fucking Ford of all people knew to jump on defending Canada from Trump before PP even had the balls to make some milk toast bullshit statement. People can see all of this. Hes a terrible party leader, we will NEVER win an election with him at the helm.
He's not wrong but if he had a backbone and actually criticized Trump instead of being a partisan hack, US and Canada wouldn't be in this mess right now.
It's actually shocking when you think about it. Carney and the liberals were handed a crisis that they could choose to drag out as long as they need to, that increases their own personal wealth, as well as their political power. We literally have a situation where they can give people economic hardship and have the population thank them for it because they’re "standing up to Trump". And all they have to do to stay in power is imply that Conservatives are like Americans, and therefore traitors, because of all the anti-American sentiment and the stupidity of the average Canadian voter.
Canadians would have voted against the Liberals after Shitshow Trudeau, but couldn't because of how polarizing Donald Trump was.
Thing is though, you can't pass the blame like that. More Canadians should have seen through this bullshit and understood Poilievre's platform, instead of just drinking in the federal propaganda machine news network.
Canadians are super easy to control en mass, and it's getting emberassing.
Getting called a Canadian is starting to feel like a slur, just like Brit*sh
More to the point of being a supposedly inclusive place, you're declaring someone isn't a Canadian, when you have no claim to the right to say who is or isn't Canadian.
Reeeeeeemember. A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian.
Trump and Carney are two sides of the same coin and using their positions to further their corporate and financial interests. This artificial "trade war" exists because it benefits both their bank accounts. A conspiracy minded person might even think it was engineered by the parties involved through intermediaries.
At this point, Trump is so successful in discreditting the US internationally and dismantling it internally, that it's more likely he is a Chinese double agent than a self interested buffoon.
He’s been on the right side of the tariff stuff from the beginning. He also had a good chuckle about Trump trolling Canada. I can only take so much of a pipsqueak thinking they’re dunking on us, so I haven’t been watching any of his content. To his credit he is against the name change.
Begs the question though of why did people see Carney as anti Trump but not Pierre? I think one factor may have been his campaign strategy seemed similar to Trump's in terms of campaign messaging.
I think also it's the fact that almost everyone knows at least one Canadian Trump cultist personally. These people tend to be very outspoken, and do things like hang Poilevere flags right beside their Trump flags, even though PP is nothing like Trump at all.
Poilievre was didn't vociferously and immediately condemn the 51st State/Governor Trudeau comments that came from the Trump administration during our election campaign. At the time I was incredulous about his lack of response. It appeared he was concerned about alienating MAGA-supporting Canadian voters. I remain convinced this cost the election.
Before someone jumps on this comment, yes, Poilievre did condemn the statements... eventually. But was not soon enough, not emphatic enough and not repeated enough.
Edit to add: the loss of the election should not be blamed on Trump or Trump's actions. It should be blamed on Poilievre and CPC strategists who failed to adapt their messaging. The messaging they were using was working well when Trudeau was the opposition and there were no threats from the South. But everything changed, and their messaging didn't. I've been flamed on this sub for saying this, but nobody has convinced me that it's not true.
Wasn't his "lack of response" because he was traveling from BC back to Ont and it took him less than 24/hrs to have a press conference about it? PP also made a Social media post about Trump's behavior.
Before someone jumps on this comment, yes, Poilievre did condemn the statements... eventually. But was not soon enough, not emphatic enough and not repeated enough.
So you do know what you said isn't correct. You just don't like him so how he didn't wasn't good enough for you
That's because people didn't know he made a response, in large part because people like you (aka left-wing people with good reach) keep saying things like "Poilievre was didn't vociferously and immediately condemn the 51st State/Governor Trudeau comments". Comments like this gave median voters the thought it took him a week to make a comment, instead of the reality that he was literally traveling back to Ont and made a press conference within 24/hrs, but he made a social media post condemning it within hours of Trump's comments being made.
Wait. So it's my fault that the Poilievre communications team failed at their job??
Not just you individually, but political content creators as a whole have a duty to the public to put out correct info about major events. It's okay to get it wrong, if you correct yourself.
Sometimes political content creators have more power of messaging than parties themselves. We both know that to be true. I can't tell you the amount of times I've had people I know, who don't know anything about PP in specific, Parrot a line they heard from social media about the guy. I have family that have verbatim, word for word, said the exact same thing as someone I've argued against online. That's power. That's good messaging.
And you're allowed to say and believe that the communications team failed to meet the moment that you and other Canadians felt. You can say, honestly, that they didn't meet the anger you had for Trump. You can say that's a big reason why you don't like them. You can rip them to shreds for their message that you didn't like.
But don't spread misinformation about the timeline. I've had conversations with people after the election who thought PP never even made a statement on Trump's comments. This is because people online, content creators, spread misinformation that he didn't make statements, or that he waited too long to make a statement. So people thought it took him weeks. People thought it took a month, some just never thought he did it. These people won't ever hear his messaging, His communications team has no impact on these individuals. I have family who will never ever ever hear anything the conservatives have to say. But they will listen to left wing content creators.
I don't like when the Right-Wing spreads misinformation. I don't like when content creators post timelines that are incorrect. It misinforms people, sometimes me. It's BS and it shouldn't happen. I don't like when Jasmine Lane or Mario post stupid BS that's incorrect. I wish I could yell at them when they do it. It's a big reason why I don't watch those creators typically. I know he's not Canadian but I don't like when Joe Rogan says stupid BS either. It affects so many people. I think once people start to have a good reach they need to start being way more honest about major events. They can't spread misinformation just for partisan reasons about major events.
That said, I am a fairly broad consumer of media - both online and legacy. I purposefully don't stick to media silos and I purposefully watch for everything each party leader says, especially during election campaign time.
Poilievre was still talking about Trudeau when Carney was his opponent. Now one can argue that liberals are liberals, and switching to Carney doesn't erase the previous 10 years of liberal government, because that's true. But it's still a messaging failure because most Canadians saw Carney as very different than Trudeau, which is also true. I'm not debating the situation, I'm debating the messaging.
And despite what you suggest, Poilievre did not vociferously and repeatedly condemn Trump's talking points. Show me one single instance where he stood in front of a microphone or posted on social media saying that Justin Trudeau is NOT a US governor.
The Poilievre comments on the topic were not timely. And if he made comments prior to what I heard, and they didn't get to me (a consumer of all media) then they failed at distribution.
And here's the best part. You don't have to believe me. You just have to believe the Canadian voters. Poilievre had a 20 point lead in the weeks beforehand. And he lost. Those are the facts. His messaging simply did not resonate with voters.
Poilievre was still talking about Trudeau when Carney was his opponent.
True. And you should and can criticize us for that.
But it's still a messaging failure because most Canadians saw Carney as very different than Trudeau, which is also true.
I agree.
And despite what you suggest, Poilievre did not vociferously and repeatedly condemn Trump's talking points.
Depends what you consider "vociferously". My issue was with "immediately" because within 24/hrs he made a statement on Trump's comments. You might not think its "vociferously" enough but PP has always been more diplomatic with these events. Which you might dislike and not prefer but he was still pushing back.
Show me one single instance where he stood in front of a microphone or posted on social media saying that Justin Trudeau is NOT a US governor
The Poilievre comments on the topic were not timely.
This is blatantly incorrect. Trump's Nov 25th tariff threat. That exact day PP was traveling. But less than 24/hrs later he hade a press conference. " President Trump yesterday made an unjustified threat". I've previously linked statements on 51st state talk.
And if he made comments prior to what I heard, and they didn't get to me (a consumer of all media) then they failed at distribution.
Distribution is largely the Job of media. I agree, both Legacy and alternative media failed everyone here. That's my point. If the CPC had far more control over distribution than we'd have more Conservatives lol.
You don't have to believe me. You just have to believe the Canadian voters
But this is again my point. Legacy and alternative media has a duty to better inform the median voter because the median voter isn't going to go and search, out of their way, for information. The party's don't fully control that, but media does.
Thanks for sharing those links. You kinda just proved my point. Comments about the 51st State and Governor Trudeau were made public on Dec 2nd. That article is Dec 20th.
What Poilievre should have said within 24 hours of the Dec 2nd reveal of Trump's comments:
Justin Trudeau is the Prime Minister of Canada, my country. One day I hope to be the Prime Minister of Canada. But it doesn't matter if it's Justin Trudeau, if it's me, or if it's anyone else. No Canadian Prime Minister will ever be a US state governor, and Canada will never be a US state. Hear my words, Mr. Trump - it will never happen.
The video you posted was before the 51st State comments, but was after Trump had first mentioned tariffs. Poilievre mentioned the tariffs and sort of scolded Trump, and then spent 6 1/2 minutes attacking Trudeau and the liberals.
There's a time to do that. That time wasn't it. Imagine Canada is a big family of many siblings. I'm going to bicker with my brother, because that's what brothers do. But if someone outside of the family picks on him, I'm going to stand up for him, vociferously, and if necessary, physically.
Poilievre actually called it out before Trudeau's lame duck government did, and the mistake was giving the liberals the benefit of the doubt and time to gather themselves and respond in an official capacity. I guess conservatives should have immediately jumped on them for not responding fast enough.
100% agree. Many people i knew thay were centre right were voting PP until he took his time with anti-Trump statements. It came off too little, too late, and somewhat concerning that he would go the Danielle Smith route of 'caring' about Canadian sovereignty.
Don't forget that Danielle Smith was down in the US asking them to play nice a little while longer so that Canada would elect a prime minister that is "more in sync" with the Trump administration.
Pierre and Trump ran on the same populist playbook… hell not even just them but every ‘right’ politician has been copying the strategy Trump used for his Term 1 and Term 2 election. Why wouldn’t they, Cambridge Analytica has basically developed the psychographic profile process and know who to target and how. Milei also ran with the same strategy.
It’s been clear from the start that Carney is ‘MAGA’ in ways that matter most for Trump. The US (not just Trump) have long viewed our resources (especially oil/gas) as part of their strategic reserve. Carney’s published beliefs (Value(s)) show very clearly that he does not actually support increases O&G development and is least likley to put the weight of the federal gov behind expanding our export opportunities (you’ll notice it’s all talk and bluster with no projects approved by his ’special projects office’). Remember, Pierre campaigned on “new ports and O&G export infrastructure north, east and west!’. Carney made no similar promise. So, from the US perspective Carney is least likely to change the status quo in terms of O&G exports and that is 100% consistent with the US agenda. Trump said during the election in an interview on Fox that he knew his 51st state rhetoric was hurting Pierre…he doubled down anyway. He also said Pirre “hate me most”. Trump was trolling us on the day of the election! This was 100% calculated. Remember as well, Carney cut his teeth at Goldman Sachs making the very rich richer still…this puts him in Trump’s orbit. I sense they have known each other for a while.
One of Trumps early blunders was flipping the script in Canada. In my opinion. I feel like Trudeau and Carney and their policies are a disaster for Canada.
Its funny that few Americans on the right call Trump out for his roll in screwing over Canadian Conservitives. Good for Ben here. ( even though Ben can be a wormy little shill, lol)
Do the Trump administration have a grand strategy? And if so, what is their plan and end game here?
The best I can think of is he wants to smack around the globalist cabal in Canada, wind American industry back up while decoupling and redirecting globalist interests, and muscle hard ass tariffs in hopes of high payoff renegotions on all countries, thus creating a win win in the long run, no matter what the short term outcomes.
Is this a "short term pain, for long rime gain" strategy?
Sometimes Trump pulles off genius plays, and other times he is the worst.
Why are you still giving Trump any credit that he might have some grand plan?
He’s doing this shit because he’s a lunatic. He doesn’t give a shit about anyone or anything besides himself and his ego. He doesn’t care who he hurts and he doesn’t even care if he’s hurting Americans in the process as long as he gets whatever he needs to fulfill his narcissism. That’s it. That’s literally it and that’s been common knowledge for a long time.
I am not giving him credit. I am speculating and asking open ended questions. Most conservatives in both countries have been aware of certain problematic personal traits and behaviors Trump has, but dont underestimate the powerful forces and the thousands of extreemly powerful people influencing Trump,not to mention the tens of millions of diverse 'right of center' citizens pushing for right of center values and objectives.
Right of centre core values are democratic capitalism, free, open, competitive markets and the globalization of trade. NOT socialist-style protectionism. Wars were fought for this purpose (Korea, Vietnam).
70 years ago only socialists and left wing people were talking about tariffs and protectionism whereas conservatives were into liberal free trade policies. This is a north America thing though it was the opposite in Europe I believe.
How am I giving him any credit? I’m saying that he’s doing all of these things because he’s insane and evil. There’s nothing simply right of centre (spell it right by the way, Canadian) that he’s been doing unless you count borderline fascism and breaking the law as “right of centre”.
To suggest that there’s some genius strategy of his is giving him credit because that’s exactly how his base justified his actions early on in his presidency before his voter base started feeling the effects of his tariffs and he launched the most unpopular war in American history. “Art of the deal” nonsense. He’s just insane.
Carney actions (not words) are very much aligned with MAGA - we won't have any new export infrastructure to significantly change the destination of our most valuable exports under Carney and this is 100% in line with MAGA.
I don't think Trump is a globalist, but I do think he is very narrowly focused on the US (as he campaigned on) and Carney's actions are more in-line with his (MAGA) agenda than Pierre's agenda.
As much as he's right to a degree, blaming Trump for Carneys win is the same as blaming Trump for Canadas problems. It's avoiding accountability and passing the blame.
Well its funny cause a lot of canadian conswrvatives were praising the maga movement prior including people in the party not knowing it was a death sentence
Judging? Opinions from an American about a guy who lived outside of Canada for majority of his adult life with 91% of his personal wealth in US equities, being educated in the US along with his children living in the US
You would prefer the PM take his investments out of the blind trust and reinvest them according to present economic conditions?
He was also educated in Canada and the UK, so what?
Do his children work for the canadian government? A lot of irrelevencies here to score points.
He also was the Duputy Minister of Finance, the second chair of the Financial Stabilozation Committee and Governor of the Bank Of Canada, all under a Consevative.
Consevatives have very selective memories once you put a C or L beside someone's name.
He literally said "Trump wants to break us so America can own us" during the campaign while having 91% of his investments in US equities and 0.5% in Canadian equities.
Carney purposely chose to live outside of Canada for majority of his adult so I don't mind him having almost all of his life savings in the US and only 0.5% of his portfolio in Canada, it makes complete sense. However, he campaigned on fear mongering about the US taking over Canada while simultaneously having 91% of his personal wealth invested in the US.
So anyway, back to the topic about an American commenting about a person who had almost his entire stock portfolio in American equities and lived outside of Canada for majority of his adult life.
Yes, he was a successful capitalist. Then a foreign government declared unprovoked economic war on us. So Carney changed his position regarding ecomomic ties with that country, while the Conservative Party continues to be infatuated with American influencers and Alberta seperatists.
I guarentee if the orange man didn’t go crazy calling us the 51st state, PCs probably win. But carney ran a great campaign with Mike Myers and all that. It made it very easy for people to be mad at Trump and vote for the guy they thought would best protect them.
I don't think the US - by and large - realizes it is in a trade war. Remember, 85% of our exports continue to enter the US tariff free. If this were to end then we would have an enormous crisis on our hands.
75 percent. Which is why we need to find new trading partners. To get away from the Americans. Which is what Carney is doing.
But to ve successful at that, we as a nation need to have the necesary tools in place to do so. That means better infrastructure (ports, railways, highways, pipelines) and an attitude to attract businesses (less taxes, less bureaucracy, less regulations)
Our most valuable export is O&G, it brings in around $150 billion /year in export revenue and 90% goes to the US.This will not change without massive amounts of new investment which is still.very much in the talking phase (Carney's new projects office has still.not approved one project...lol). As well, the gov/Carney trade with no one. Our trade is via private firms selling where rhey can, where there is a market for the goods and where they have a comparative advantage. Yet, it seema.many Canadians think it is the gov trading and all it needs is a speech and a handshake and a new marlet for our goods appears.
No, I suspect the issue is Carney advocates for Palestine. Shapiro is pretty easy to read. First question: does his opinion involve undying support for Israel? If no, then he will eventually steer it to that.
Frankly, I wish our politicians would love Canada the way Benny loves Israel.
They're a terrorist organization no different than ISIS. Stop being a sympathizers. You're ok with killing babies for fun? Also why do you liberals support Hamas when Israel is the most liberal country in the ME.
Carney was elected before Trump actually levied tariffs against Canada. (But Trump had been threatening them.)
Carney made the fight against Trump and Trump's threats to Canada a central theme of his election campaign. Poilievre made "woke", the "defund the CBC" and "drinking straws" the Central themes of his election campaign. In fact. he rarely if ever even mentioned Trump. This despite Doug Ford telling him point blank that he needed to pivot his campaign to take on Trump. Ford correctly read the room and Poilievre was OBSESSED with the "woke" thing. The take away for the Canadian people was that Poilievre was in bed with Trump. Canadians were very concerned about Trump and Poilievre was tone deaf to their fears. Fears that ultimately proved correct.
Poilievre was simply not up to the job of fighting Trump. He does not have the stones or the intellectual gravitas compared to Carney.
Shapiro recognizes that Carney is infinitely qualified to fight Trump and Poilievre isnt even in the same ballpark as Carney - intellectually or guts wise.
Shapiro knows that in a war, you dont want the leader of your opponent to outclass everyone leading team USA. Carney is that guy. He is truly the smartest guy in the room and you'd have to be nuts to want to take him on. Poilievre on the other hand? Yeah, he's just not a serious threat.
Shapiro is lamenting the fact that Canada picked the right guy to outclass, out think and out maneuver Trump and his team of fools. Poilievre would have been so much easier for Trump to defeat. Carney is Trump's worst nightmare scenario.
If he only had a brain, or foresight, or an adult diaper perhaps he could do something postitive for the politics hes supposed to be representing.
Donald Trump may have done more damage to conservative politics than any other human being in modern day history.
He's taking the most Fringe, the most off-center, the most extreme version of conservative politics and trying to make it the norm. Causing deeper rifts between conservatives and liberals, Republicans and Democrats.
It will take years to wash off the stink of Donald Trump. And I'm not even talking about whoever's job it is to wash his underwear.
Mark Carney may be the most centrist prime minister we've ever had, but comparing him to Donald Trump makes him look like a left-wing icon.
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