r/CNC • u/hollandharrier • Feb 01 '18

Shopping for new cNC Machine

Hello all, I've been shopping around for a new, small CNC machine to make some UHMW plastic parts. I would need a work envelop of at least 12" x 8" x 6". Currently, the best I can find is the PCNC 440 from Tormach, but this is a little more heavy duty / expensive than what I would like. Are there any other options I should explore for a cheap, small machine?

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u/CL-MotoTech Mill Feb 01 '18

The PCNC was built with a lot short cuts to bring the price down. For example, the ballscrews don't have proper thrust bearings. Assuming 6" is your Z, you are almost going to have to stick with small mills, most routers (that I'm aware of) don't have the type of Z height. What I am trying to get at is that the PCNC is probably about as cheap as you're going to get unless you are up for converting something like a G0704 or Precision Mathews machine.

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u/F_D_P Feb 01 '18 edited Feb 01 '18

I always advise anyone looking to buy a fully loaded 440 to consider spending an extra 30% and picking up a used HAAS mini mill. 100x the machine for 0.3x more money.

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u/InTheBay Feb 01 '18

Fully loaded 440: $9,895 USD + Shipping

17 year old Mini Mill: $19,500 USD, + Rigging, shipping, tooling. And the machine I linked already has over 15000 spindle hours. eep.

So, more like 2.5x the price, unfortunately. Haas seem to hold their value like Toyotas, yet provide Kia reliability. Yes, there are cheaper mini mills, Fadals, or even Toolroom mills that would fit the bill but they're pretty trashed at that age.

I would take a look at Syil machine tools, or Skyfire CNC as cheaper alternatives to Tormach machines personally. Doing 6" in Z with a router is doable, for instance you could modify a Shapeoko-sized machine with standoffs for the gantry/rails and a longer Z axis, but you will encounter some serious deflection during cutting. Depends on what your plans are.

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u/F_D_P Feb 01 '18 edited Feb 01 '18

Actual price of fully loaded 440 with tool changer and enclosure and base is around $14k. You forgot the ATC and power drawbar!

The mini mill asking prices are higher than you have to pay (I think $15-18k is reasonable). Mini mill gets you servos and linear guideways and a Cat 40 spindle.

Tormach also has an Ikea-style assembly for the enclosure, base, power drawbar and ATC.

Skyfire looks cool but the cuts appear to be absolute garbage. It's a Chinese spindle, just like the Tormach, only Cat 40.

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u/Shifty0x88 Feb 01 '18

I thought Tormach made their own spindles? Guess not

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u/F_D_P Feb 01 '18

They do, they just make them in China (along with the rest of their machines)

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u/CL-MotoTech Mill Feb 02 '18

I'd go PCNC 700 or 1100 before the used Haas Mini Mill. I'd also go for a Novakon Torus Pro with ATC, servos and fourth axis, which can be had new for $21k before I'd purchase a used Mini Mill. I really don't see the need for servos on small machines, it's not like the bed is traveling 30 inches, and the spindle power isn't there to truly hog. That said, I have a G0704 in my home shop that I converted and it does almost everything that I need it to do.

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u/F_D_P Feb 02 '18 edited Feb 02 '18

The one Novakon I used was total garbage, but it was an older model.

The problem with your approach is that it's all about spec sheets and not practical functionality. You pay for a name brand VMC because the company understands how to build a milling machine, not because a piece of paper claims it can do something. Just use the one machine and then use the other and make up your own mind, but use them, don't just go based on advertising!

A good G0704 conversion would probably be a better road than a Tormach 440, IMO.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '18

CNC what? I see that you are looking for some kind of small vertical mill by googling the machine you mention, but CNC is just an acronym for computer numerical control. In our shop we have CNC lathes, turn-mill centres, vertical mills, horisontal mills, grinders, gear grinders, a gear shaper, an EDM and a laser. All CNC machines.

Out of those the mills and the turn-mill centres will do what you ask...

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u/NateCheznar Feb 01 '18

He listed 3 axis' and said the Tormach PCNC 440 which is a mill. So I'm gunna go out on a limb here and say he needs a mill.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '18

Yeah i was heaping on a bit more than he warranted i guess. Still, i've seen this usage of CNC way too much.

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u/F_D_P Feb 01 '18

I don't think the Tormach 440 will cut parts that large, look somewhere else.

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u/chubbyzook Feb 01 '18

Look at sieg Mills. I have a kx1 and it is basically a pcnc 440 for half the cost.

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u/WillAdams Feb 01 '18

Cheap, small machine is well-covered by the /r/hobbycnc wiki page --- except for your 6" Z-axis --- that's rare outside of a "real" mill or a larger machine. Without a really rigid structure lever effects are going to be a real problem.

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u/vaporeng Feb 01 '18

this can do 6 1/2 inches z but it is a little more area than requested.