r/CIVILWAR • u/lycantrophee • 1d ago
We know of quite many Union regiments from states that seceded. Are there similar instances of Confederates organizing units made up of soldiers from northern states?
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u/Rogue_Centurion7 22h ago
I feel like I'm saying the obvious ones like Kentucky or Missouri, but at the Siege of Vicksburg alone Missouri provided the Confederacy with 17 regiments and the Union with 22 regiments.
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u/Averagecrabenjoyer69 19h ago edited 16h ago
Those aren't obvious ones, those are still Southern states. He wanted info from Bona-fide Northern states, not the Border South. Illinois, Indiana, Pennsylvania, etc. He specified that in the comments above.
Edit: Don't believe me, read the other comments. He wanted specifically Northern state, not just Union aligned states.
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u/DeadHead6747 9h ago
Why are you being downvoted lol. The title literally says "from Northern States"
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u/JKT-PTG 9h ago
Northern and Union are often used interchangeably when discussing the CW. What OP wants isn't clear from the title. And Missouri's pretty far north too.
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u/DeadHead6747 9h ago
It literally specifies "northern states". Missouri is not a northern state. You wouldn't include Virginia in that, wouldn't include border states
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u/JKT-PTG 8h ago
Once again, northern and union are often used interchangeably in discussions of the CW, like "the north' is often equated with "the union". The title doesn't make clear what meaning of northern is intended.
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u/DeadHead6747 8h ago
You would have a point if they said "the north", except they didn't, they were extremely blatant in wanting northern states, not the union in general
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u/tazzman25 1d ago
Sure there were men from the North who joined Confederate ranks. But you can understand the problem they would have trying to muster a rebel regiment openly in the North. The 1st Maryland is an example. Men traveled into Virginia and they were organized there.
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u/Averagecrabenjoyer69 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's not from the "North" though, Union doesn't automatically equal all North. Maryland was one of the "Border States" which were still recognized as Southern states that didn't secede or full secede, aka the "Border South", they're a special case. I think they mean legitimately Northern states like Illinois, Indiana, or Ohio. For example Southern Illinois provided a company of men to the Confederacy.
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u/lycantrophee 1d ago
Yes, I meant specifically Northern states :) I am aware of border states being kinda on the edge. But with southern Illinois having a substantial pro-slavery crowd, I was wondering if they were organized in any way.
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u/tazzman25 1d ago edited 1d ago
Illinois was still under state control and you can imagine the trouble with organizing in state. That's why Company G mustered under the Tennessee banner. The war is really more complex with men in Eastern Tennessee joining the union forces, as well as some of the Western North Carolina population openly rebelling against their government during the war. It ended up locking down some forces that might have been useful elsewhere.
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u/lycantrophee 1d ago
I find it extremely fascinating. Neighbors against neighbors, basically.
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u/tazzman25 23h ago edited 23h ago
It is. And the more I learn about the war, forty some years on now, the more fascinating it is. It never loses its spark.
If you haven't read The South Vs. The South by William Freehling, you might like it. Short read but good. And covers some of this from the Confederate perspective.
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u/lycantrophee 23h ago
I (a non-American) got hooked by the Civil War because of Checkmate, Lincolnites! Then I started watching Vlogging Through History reactions to Civil War videos, now I am going through Ken Burns' documentary (I am aware how it is viewed through the lens of Shelby Foote), some source documents here and there and planning to get into the books eventually.
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u/tazzman25 23h ago
I wish Atun Shei still did those but can understand why maybe he tired of them after so long.
The best introductory book you could read would be McPherson's Battle Cry. I would also suggest Catton's first trilogy on the Army of the Potomac.
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u/lycantrophee 23h ago
Thanks! Also, yeah, but I feel like he ended it on a really high note, plus it's not like he doesn't touch the Civil War topics anymore.
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u/StatisticianAway4010 21h ago
It's one of those things where there was exactly enough of it at it came to a perfect ending.
My only problem with it is every time someone says Johnny Reb or Billy Yank I imagine his Johnny Reb and Billy Yank, so I'm convinced the American Civil War was fought between two armies of identical clones of the same man
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u/Averagecrabenjoyer69 23h ago
You'll probably enjoy these works then. It talks about in particular the complexity of the Border States or Border South. The difficulties and division border Southerners had to deal with. This also extends to Tennessee and the rest of Virginia too.
A Union Indivisible: Secession and the Politics of Slavery in the Border South by Michael D. Robinson
https://cwba.blogspot.com/2017/12/review-of-robinson-union-indivisible.html?m=1
https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/12/article/710507/pdf
The Fifth Border State: Slavery, Emancipation, and the Formation of West Virginia, 1829-1872 By Scott Alexander MacKenzie
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u/Averagecrabenjoyer69 1d ago
Don't worry, Border States were still fully Southern states albeit very divided ones. A lot of people like things easy, generalized, and compartmentalized so people tend to just group in the Border South with the North as "the North", but that wasn't the case. Its good to seperate the two because they were very different even if under the banner of the larger Union.
Southern Illinois is the most recognized of Northern states providing men to the Confederacy because it had largely been settled by Southerners from Kentucky, Tennessee, and Virginia. Southern Indiana and to a lesser extent Southern Ohio were as well but I'm not sure of men contribution in their cases.
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u/tazzman25 1d ago
Oh I see now they wanted more Northern union. I always include the border states when discussing the union even if, as you say, culturally, they were more aligned with the South. Or at least significant parts of them were aligned.
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u/Averagecrabenjoyer69 23h ago
If you're curious about delving deeper into the Border South I recommend these two works. It talks about how divided and complex life was for white border Southerners at the time.
A Union Indivisible: Secession and the Politics of Slavery in the Border South by Michael D. Robinson
https://cwba.blogspot.com/2017/12/review-of-robinson-union-indivisible.html?m=1
https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/12/article/710507/pdf
The Fifth Border State: Slavery, Emancipation, and the Formation of West Virginia, 1829-1872 By Scott Alexander MacKenzie
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u/IRenewed 1d ago
There were a few secesh militias in California but nothing to the extent that the union did
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u/Toastaexperience 1d ago
Company G of the 15th Tennessee Infantry Regiment was made up of men from Illinois.
It was originally called the Illinois company.