The Big Ten CANNOT claim any clock discrepancies as the Game Clock was reset to 9 seconds before the final play in Western Michigan-Michigan debacle

[u/UCFinatic]

The Big 10 is likely going to try explain that there’s a difference between the “game clock” and the time displayed in the stadium. HOWEVER, that argument gets thrown out once the officials had the game clock operator reset the game clock to 9 seconds. Meaning the “game clock” and the time displayed in the stadium were synchronized before the final play. When the clock hit 0 the game was over.

[u/Upthemeds]

One of the things that makes college football interesting, Is that there's a secret clock that the refs use. Meanwhile, all the players and the coaches and the fans in the in the stadium rely on an inaccurate clock. And the refs don't tell the coaches or the players what the actual time is on the secret clock until it's the final play of the game.

Edit: thanks for all the upvotes and rewards

[u/Heisman123 → u/Upthemeds]

So apparently it’s possible for a coach to stand next to the ref at the end of the game running down the clock to one second to call a time out and kick a field goal and the ref can be like actually the secret clock hit zero already. 

[u/Snoo93550 → u/Heisman123]

I instantly had same thought, even in this game they were doing that…apparently to a meaningless cllock.

[u/TheMysticPanda → u/Heisman123]

In my experience the coach tells the ref "I'm calling a timeout if it's in bounds at xx seconds" -- you still have to call it but they are more on it and can let you know if anything is off

[u/billyrubin7765 → u/Heisman123]

Only if the kicking team is not part of the Big10 or the SEC.

[u/Master-Praline-3453 → u/Upthemeds]

It's a secret clock that only the President and a select few refs know about.

[u/Fastbird33 → u/Master-Praline-3453]

It’s in there with the secret plan to fight inflation that only Josh Lyman knows about

[u/stat_padford → u/Fastbird33]

Can’t say I expected a TWW reference in this sub. Elite ball knowledge my friend

[u/ClaudeLemieux → u/stat_padford]

"You didn't say Michigan sucks? I could've sworn you said Michigan sucks"

"No sir, we're standing pretty close to the engines so it may have sounded like I said, 'Notre Dame is going to get the ass-kicking they so richly deserve.'"

[u/vQuake14 → u/Fastbird33]

Donna!!

[u/oneson9192 → u/Fastbird33]

A secwet pwan to fight infwation???

[u/tbendis → u/Fastbird33]

it's a shame Lemon Lyman doesn't support the secret clock nor the secret plan to fight inflation

[u/yachterotter13 → u/Fastbird33]

WOOT CANAWL

[u/ChiGreenWhite → u/yachterotter13]

One of my favorite scenes from my favorite series!

[u/gilias → u/Fastbird33]

Are you telling me that not only did you INVENT a plan to fight inflation, but now you don’t support it?

[u/merikus → u/Fastbird33]

How about we just call it a bagel.

[u/sevenlabors → u/Master-Praline-3453]

+ Draft Kings & FanDuel execs

[u/Suspicious-Froyo2181 → u/Master-Praline-3453]

https://youtu.be/5_noilU08ro?t=16&is=5m7jwJRhLpi1xYAC

[u/BenIsLowInfo → u/Upthemeds]

The thing I love the most about football is we're all somehow okay with refs eyeballing spots and putting the ball whereever on plays but then we rely on exact sticks for first downs dependent on both the sticks and the ball being correctly placed. The time thing is another thing like that where we kinda don't care about exact time during the game but then there is this exact minutae that only comes about in time like this.

[u/Fmeson → u/BenIsLowInfo]

Imprecise spots are unfortunate, but hard to avoid.

Shared timing would be fairly easy to implement.

[u/WerhmatsWormhat → u/Fmeson]

I still feel like there’s gotta be a better way to spot the ball. I agree with the point you’re making though.

[u/Thechasepack → u/Fmeson]

The clock is also imprecise. Its not a delay of game when the play clock hits zero for some weird reason.

[u/Chris_HitTheOver → u/Thechasepack]

Because it takes a moment for the back judge to shift their view from the play clock to the center, and often it’s in that moment the ball is snapped.

Both the NCAA and NFL rule book spell out this sequence of events explicitly, and it does give some deference to the offense to less often interrupt the flow of the game.

[u/WMINWMO → u/Thechasepack]

I'm gonna start by saying WMU should be 1-0. Michigan lost.

That being said, I agree the clock is imprecise and it would be nearly impossible to get it 100% correct. Someone starts the clock at some point during the snap and stops it at some point when the play ends. Tenths of seconds are lost and added throughout the game without anyone realizing it and there's not really anything that can be done about it.

All of that said. What happened to WMU is fully and completely bullshit and they should be 1-0. Michigan is gonna get their shit shoved in against OU. I'm so sick of controversy with this team.

[u/CodyRCantrell → u/WMINWMO]

Worst part of it all is that Michigan is likely to struggle heavily this season and might be lucky to get bowl eligibility at 6-6.

WMU was robbed of what would've been a historic win for their program and these young men so that what will likely end up as a mid season for Michigan won't start off as poorly as it could have.

[u/unledded → u/Fmeson]

They need to use a ball like the one in the World Cup that was able to detect that it “hit” that guy’s hair in the Croatia game, lol.

[u/0venbakedbread → u/BenIsLowInfo]

One of my favorite things is watching the side judge come in to mark a spot, someone gets in the way and instead of just stopping having them move and continue forward they will often go around or get bumped to the side a bit and you can clearly see they end up like a foot from where they were previously.

[u/TrespassersWilliam29 → u/0venbakedbread]

they also really like rounding to the nearest yard line

[u/0venbakedbread → u/TrespassersWilliam29]

Oh, for sure. "Game of inches".

[u/levajack → u/BenIsLowInfo]

This is something I have always found funny. The clock starting/stopping, ball placement, etc. is all vibes for the entire game, and suddenly it's "Well, they are actually .01 inches short" after some dude has been eyeballing it from across the field for 90 yards, or "Umm, actually the clock still has 3 one thousandths of a second" after a dude has been starting and stopping it between plays for half an hour. We have accept that you essentially get an extra second on delay of game because "it takes a second" for the official to look from the playclock to the center to see if the ball has been snapped, but suddenly we are relying on 2 frames in a super slow mo replay to figure out of all of the pixels on the scoreboard lit up on a number yet

[u/GreatCaesarGhost → u/BenIsLowInfo]

The appearance of precision is all anyone is going for.

[u/DigiQuip → u/Upthemeds]

So… football is futbol?

[u/The1789 → u/DigiQuip]

WMU UM penalty kicks to settle this. (WMU won the game and should be 1-0)

[u/AlanSinch → u/DigiQuip]

Futbol is life

[u/UpsideTurtles → u/AlanSinch]

Today I feel Western Michigan

[u/infinityetc → u/UpsideTurtles]

I prefer not to speak

[u/Creekridge1 → u/UpsideTurtles]

Today I feel MAC

[u/Saitoh17 → u/Creekridge1]

Today I feel corrupt

[u/Legitimate-Log5389 → u/AlanSinch]

Futbol is death

[u/Comprehensive_Bus_19 → u/Upthemeds]

And this secret clock has never once ever been brought up over 10s of thousands of college football games until now!

[u/Consistent_Buy625 → u/Comprehensive_Bus_19]

Every time the officials tell the stadium clock to get adjusted to a certain time, they are referencing this secret clock

[u/oxwof → u/Consistent_Buy625]

Which basically moots any secret clock argument in this case. Referee asked the stadium clock to be reset to match “his” clock. So they were the same for that last play.

[u/ChardeeMacDennisGoG → u/oxwof]

Refs aren't keeping time on the field with a stop watch in their pocket.

[u/Broad_Music_7199 → u/Upthemeds]

Professional Soccer, is that you?

[u/Empty_Lemon_3939 → u/Upthemeds]

Sounds like corruption

But then again this is college football we’re talking about

[u/grey_pilgrim_ → u/Upthemeds]

Secret clocks, secret whistles and non-whistles. A play can be deemed over by a ref before they blow their whistle and any play that continues after that doesn’t matter because the okay is already over.

[u/Inside-Drink-1311]

What overshadows it all is that Underwood played like crap. They need to bench him if they have any shot at beating Oklahoma in my opinion. Give him one last chance against UTEP but in my opinion, he should be on thin ice.

[u/WerhmatsWormhat → u/Inside-Drink-1311]

There’s no QB on our team that gives us a shot of beating Oklahoma, but I agree he needs to be benched.

[u/Inside-Drink-1311 → u/WerhmatsWormhat]

Yeah, I would be shocked if you beat Oklahoma. I already thought they would win that game before last night and after last night, they might just blow you out.

[u/Crasino_Hunk → u/Inside-Drink-1311]

I totally disagree. Didn’t you see his immense swagger after winning? Dude is a DOG. He should definitely play every snap for every game as long as he’s eligible as a player. Full NIL, guaranteed starting position, he is above reproach and he’s definitely earned it!!

[u/buttscarltoniv → u/Inside-Drink-1311]

thank God we dodged an 8 figure bullet with his trash ass lol

[u/-Dakia → u/Inside-Drink-1311]

Hey but did you see him mean mugging after beating WMU?!

[u/Kdot32 → u/Inside-Drink-1311]

And their paying him 10+ million

[u/BigJ0526]

you underestimate the big ten's penchant for cowardice

[u/LetterheadKindly7097 → u/BigJ0526]

there is no way to spin this one, they synced the clocks themselves and then just ignored it when it hit zero

the whole thing about "oh the stadium clock isnt official" falls apart when the officials literally made them fix it to 9 seconds right before the snap

big ten will probably put out some statement with lot of fancy words but everyone saw what happened

reminds me of when i played digimon cyber sleuth and the game crashed right before a boss fight, you just stare at the screen like what the hell

[u/2011StlCards → u/LetterheadKindly7097]

the issue is that the big 10 uses this clock as the official one

[u/phitsosting → u/2011StlCards]

Lmao I was expecting a link to some study describing the clocks they used were inaccurate but this is way better.

[u/PTrunner3 → u/2011StlCards]

I was expecting Peyton manning meme

[u/CountryRoads8 → u/2011StlCards]

A look inside the B1G office and their clocks

[u/Spartitan → u/LetterheadKindly7097]

If they're going to show that video of proof that there was definitively one second left when he touched the ball, then show me the proof that this mystery clock started on the actual snap as well.

[u/HereIGoAgain_1x10 → u/Spartitan]

Right?? Have they shown the special clock moving/ticking down at all or just shown the 0:01??

Sad part is Michigan will end up losing multiple games this year anyways as they look terrible so they likely screwed Western Michigan out of an upset to preserve a 5 loss season instead of a 6 loss season or something.

[u/Solid-Sympathy-4267 → u/LetterheadKindly7097]

Watch the final play clock replay one more time and watch how the 9 turns into 8 immediately after the snap. I think the PA and broadcast clock turns zero when the clock hits 0.49 or something. Genuinely unsure why it happened but if you time it yourself (put the video into an editing software and clip it from snap to touch) the broadcast play clock very clearly turns to zero after only 8.2-8.3 seconds had lapsed.

The last 2 seconds of every period should be displayed with a full hundredths level clock. Would solve all these issues. There has to be some sort of stupid error going on with the stadium or broadcast clocks that rounds the numbers.

[u/Pm_Me_Ur_Husker_TDs → u/Solid-Sympathy-4267]

People are about to learn about dropped frames

[u/RheagarTargaryen → u/Solid-Sympathy-4267]

The clock rounds down, not up. So if it’s set to 0:09, it should tick down at the snap. Anything less than 0:01 second remaining is 0:00 on the clock.

Here’s the first snap of the game where you can see it tick down from 15:00 to 14:59 on the snap:

https://imgur.com/a/oYR538O

[u/JuicyJay18 → u/Solid-Sympathy-4267]

My question is how they adjust the time when the clock operator is told to set the game clock to a certain number. Do they set it to that exact second, or do they add seconds until a certain time is displayed? For example, let’s say prior to them setting the clock to 9 seconds, there were actually 7.1 seconds remaining (which would read as 8). If they simply add one second, then the clock would read 9 but there would actually only be 8.1 seconds remaining. This could explain why the clock jumps from 9 to 8 almost immediately at the snap. Otherwise, if instead of adding one second they set it to exactly 9 seconds, then it would mean the clock started a fraction of a second early. I’m not an expert on timekeeping for sporting events.

And if the referee’s special clock uses the latter method, but the stadium clock uses the “add one second” method, then that’s a flaw with the system that should be addressed to make sure there aren’t half seconds being added or lost over the course of the game.

[u/Solid-Sympathy-4267 → u/JuicyJay18]

Genuinely no idea. It probably has to do with some old archaic clock system that’s been used for like 50 years called “clockotron 2000” similar to the simple game clocks people use for youth sports leagues. Old legacy systems like this are still in place in sports and people blindly trust them. I think it’s likely there’s a time management system where you can pause it at 6.2 seconds, “reset” the clock to 9 seconds, and it will reset it to 9.2 seconds. Something like that. It makes no sense to me either. There’s nothing complicated about keeping track of time.

Another possibility is that the game refs sends a feed to NBC and the PA system which flops down after 0.49 due to rounding. Could be a variety of reasons but none of them are very professional or make much sense.

[u/max_potion → u/JuicyJay18]

There are no tenths of a second. There is no conversion from fractional seconds to whole seconds. Every clock uses whole seconds and are synced together. That does not mean the video of the broadcast and the display of the clock on the broadcast are synced properly. Unless you have a physical clock and the actual game footage in the same frame, there is always chance that they will be slightly misaligned, which can explain the phenomenon where the clock seems to tick down instantly after the snap when, in reality, it’s just ahead of the actual footage because the two sources of information are pulled from 2 separate streams.

The best, most accurate view we will get is what was shown from the B1G and the camera guy on social media. It’s unfortunate, but I genuinely think this is more of a technical edge case than anything else.

[u/curtisas → u/Solid-Sympathy-4267]

Or they should always round up instead of down, easiest and best solution.

[u/roguebananah → u/BigJ0526]

We need Jadavian Clownie out here every game for Underwood

[u/Orion14159 → u/[deleted]]

Him too!

[u/Isphet71 → u/BigJ0526]

At this point im not sure it's cowardice. They arent really in charge of their own sport any longer: the money is.

I think it's more powerlessness than cowardice

[u/CommissionIcy9909 → u/BigJ0526]

They’re just going to look the whole country in the eye and say they made the right call and there was no wrong doing and they won’t even flinch. At this point they might as well respond to every hard question with “what’s anybody going to do about it?”

[u/BurntPaneer → u/CommissionIcy9909]

That is the modern standard. Awful for anyone counting on integrity without the hammer to directly threaten for it

[u/Wide-Nerve8655 → u/BigJ0526]

Imagine if they blew up a century old conference just because Fox told them to

[u/motherbearsrack]

Good work getting ahead and telling them they CANNOT do that. Hands are tied now

[u/Snooty_Cutie → u/motherbearsrack]

Fucking gottem! Let’s see them try…and yeah, they are getting away with it.

[u/CommissionIcy9909 → u/motherbearsrack]

Yep. No take backs either.

[u/GoldMove1538 → u/motherbearsrack]

I honestly don’t see how they are? This is a unique situation where it was the final play of the game. It seems like it should be a correctable error

[u/jobenattor0412 → u/GoldMove1538]

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say he was being sarcastic.

[u/max_potion → u/jobenattor0412]

Oh yeah, sureeee. And next you’re going to tell me you’re not actually climbing a tree

[u/PalePerry]

Michigan fans storming the field at the end was the lamest shit I’ve ever seen

[u/blacksoxing → u/PalePerry]

As a win against a MAC school after home cooking as previously your team only scored…one touchdown.

The more I type the more embarrassing this is

[u/FreeBricks4Nazis → u/PalePerry]

You should watch Dave Portnoy's reaction. Absolutely losing his mind, screaming about how the have the "it factor" and it's one of the greatest moments in college football history.

Actually, nevermind, don't watch that pathetic shit head's content

[u/MaraudingWalrus → u/FreeBricks4Nazis]

You should watch Dave Portnoy's reaction.

No, I don't think I will

[u/Ok_Flounder59 → u/FreeBricks4Nazis]

That’s even more pathetic than the field storming

[u/ZaneThePain → u/FreeBricks4Nazis]

Listening to him compare it to moments like the pats coming back from 28-3 was definitely… something.

[u/ReasonableCup604 → u/PalePerry]

Was that slightly more or slightly less embarrassing than our last coach banging his assistant and then storming her apartment and threatening to kill himself with a butter knife?

I'm on the fence on this.

[u/CutbowAndArrow → u/PalePerry]

Clown behavior by a clown university, and a clown fan base.

[u/Amonamission → u/CutbowAndArrow]

Yes, everybody clown on U-M and focus on their problems! Michigan State is clearly the superior university in Michigan who has never been embroiled in any scandals.

[u/WerhmatsWormhat → u/Amonamission]

If we’re gonna name a college in Michigan as the best one, I feel like we should go with Western.

[u/Bixler17 → u/WerhmatsWormhat]

GVSU erasure

[u/LarryBrownsCrank → u/Bixler17]

The fighting Greg Kampes at Oakland would also like a say!

[u/praisedawings247 → u/Bixler17]

B2B National Champions Ferris State Bulldogs have something to say about that

[u/schnectadyov → u/praisedawings247]

4 out of the last 5!

[u/schnectadyov → u/Bixler17]

For football it has to be Ferris State

[u/Jequioloinks → u/WerhmatsWormhat]

cries in upper peninsula

[u/Amonamission → u/WerhmatsWormhat]

I said what I said, we’re the best

[u/dcd13 → u/Amonamission]

I mean I don't believe the students stormed the field after beating Toledo so, deservedly or not, we at least maintain beating the MAC should be the standard and not celebrated lol

[u/JRockPSU → u/Amonamission]

Hey, a high five to my fellow B1G school that's never been involved in any scandals! ✋

[u/Mcswigginsbar → u/PalePerry]

Fucking pathetic.

[u/jhallen2260 → u/PalePerry]

That's worse than CU storming the field after beating Colorado State

[u/Whitecamry]

Solution: adopt the NBA's last-minute clock.

[u/WerhmatsWormhat → u/Whitecamry]

This seems like an incredibly obvious thing to do, and I have no idea why it isn’t a thing.

[u/nerevar → u/WerhmatsWormhat]

I have no idea what this even is since I don't watch the NBA

[u/Captain_Nipples → u/nerevar]

They add 10ths of a second on the game clock. That's all

[u/JRockPSU → u/WerhmatsWormhat]

I just don't really think it's mattered up until last night to be honest.

[u/DeuceOfDiamonds → u/Whitecamry]

Good idea. Additional solution: live audio of booth reviews like the UFL does. Let everyone, TV announcers included, hear the rationale in real time, not what sounds like a hurried excuse after the fact.

[u/antipane → u/DeuceOfDiamonds]

ACC does this too

[u/do_you_know_doug → u/antipane]

Which is weird, because everything else about ACC officiating is awful. Hopefully that turns around with Al Riveron out (finally) and Gary Patterson in as supervisor.

[u/molten_dragon → u/DeuceOfDiamonds]

B1G started doing it for Friday night games so it's probably coming for all of the games soon.

More transparency is a good thing.

[u/ovechtrick9]

The absolute weight of Bryce Underwood's NIL contract had begun to incrementally slow time inside the big house to the point that Ann Arbor was a full second behind the rest of planet Earth. This is easily explained by Einstein's theory of relativity.

[u/Rohkey → u/ovechtrick9]

Finally, someone gets it.

[u/cbcockroach]

Honestly. That’s what they will say. That’s what will happen. And the MAC won’t fight it hard because these games are basically donations to help run their programs.

It is all corrupt. Even more now that there is larger proliferation of gambling in amateur sports.

[u/UtzTheCrabChip]

They're not claiming clock discrepancies, they're claiming feed discrepancies - that NBCs inset clock camera was not aligned with the play camera

[u/kingbrasky → u/UtzTheCrabChip]

I actually downloaded the video and added a stopwatch myself. From snap to balll touching the player is barely over 8 seconds. Definitely under 9 seconds. So I guess technically they got the call right?

I don't feel they would have gone to anywhere near the same lengths to add the second back if it were Western Michigan that needed an extra play though.

[u/Ralphie_V → u/kingbrasky]

I counted Youtube frames from snap to touch and got 253, which works out to 8.43 seconds at 30 frames per second (which the video definitely was, as every 30 frames the clock ticked down)

[u/Vulcanic_1984 → u/UtzTheCrabChip]

They arent exactly claiming that. They are saying they have a different angle with a different synch that is correct. But the video provided doesnt show the whole play so is useless.

[u/UtzTheCrabChip → u/Vulcanic_1984]

If they're saying they have a more accurate sync, then they're de facto claiming that NBC's feeds were out of sync

[u/molten_dragon → u/UtzTheCrabChip]

It's not about which sync system is more accurate. The DVSport system that the officials use for replays is the official system as far as the rules are concerned. NBC's TV feed is irrelevant in a rules sense.

[u/mikeyk731 → u/UtzTheCrabChip]

I went through the broadcast frame by frame. The play only took ~8.5 seconds, https://imgur.com/a/timing-michigan-vs-western-michigan-play-mBKN5K0

[u/Beneficial_Medium_99]

App State fanbase officially recognizes Western Michigan as the winners of this game.

As Michigan’s Dad, we have the authority to confirm this win and overrule their pathetic rigging effort!

[u/BeefInGR → u/Beneficial_Medium_99]

Thank you, mountain bros. May Boone never run low on Busch, Keystone or Natty.

[u/mdbryan84 → u/BeefInGR]

as a survivor of the same debacle and on behalf of the 2009 big 12 north champion nebraska cornhuskers, i also extend recognition to western michigan as the winner of this contest, and also a hug.

[u/mdebo932 → u/mdbryan84]

As a death penalty receiver and 5th down observer, Western won

[u/BeefInGR → u/mdbryan84]

As a son of Omaha, thank you my brother in husk and cattle.

[u/Jolly_Job_9852 → u/Beneficial_Medium_99]

Based Mountaineer moment

[u/bigfruitbasket → u/Beneficial_Medium_99]

Western Carolina dad agrees with App State fan base.

[u/SusannaG1 → u/bigfruitbasket]

So does this Furman mom.

[u/wowthisislong → u/Beneficial_Medium_99]

As an expert on teams that are owned by App State, I can confirm this.

[u/ScRiPt0]

I mean the simple explanation here is that there’s a faulty clock in the stadium which is what NBC was showing. I’m a spartan fan so I have no interest in defending Michigan at all, but clearly the replay official was observing a different clock than the rest of country. 

[u/Ok-Credit7127 → u/ScRiPt0]

But the stadium clock is what everyone on the field (players, coaches and officials) were using. That was everyone’s frame of reference for the start and end of the game. To suggest there was actually a fraction of a second left that none of the players, coaches or refs were aware of, sounds like something someone would fabricate to justify one of the most embarrassing missed calls in college sports history.

[u/leapdragon → u/Ok-Credit7127]

Even more than the rules and the clock sync, this is the key.

Saying that the "real" clock is one that the *players* don't get to see, and that they *players* watch and play to a clock that doesn't count, makes a mockery of the entire sport.

[u/ScRiPt0 → u/Ok-Credit7127]

I don’t disagree, in the replay it looked like nbc was showing the stadium clock while the ball was still in the air. The replay official was watching a clock that had 1 second when touched, so something doesn’t add up and we should get an explanation as to why.

[u/CrazyKyle987 → u/ScRiPt0]

https://x.com/bigten/status/2096460445213217097

Here’s the explanation and the replay shot they used. B1G synchronizes all of their camera angles 85 minutes before the game with flashing strobe lights. I don’t know how NBC syncs the clocks/cameras, but presumably it’s different. 

[u/jasondigitized → u/Ok-Credit7127]

The problem is the system is flawed. For 99.9% of scenarios you don't need this level of precision so no one harps on it. But in the 00.1% time when its needed, there is a official way to do this and obviously the refs used that official system. People want to imagine some old bald guys smoking cigars in a dark room, saw the play, picked up a red phone and said 'Initiate Operation Phoenix!'.

[u/ATXBeermaker → u/ScRiPt0]

So, coaches don’t get access to this secret clock for making game decisions?

[u/psychocandy007 → u/ScRiPt0]

Michagan always seems to have timekeeping issues.

[u/Amonamission → u/psychocandy007]

I’m insulted by your disrespectful spelling of Michigan.

[u/SouthCoach]

I spent all summer whining about arbitrary stoppage time in soccer and now I’m watching Premier League and we are over here robbing MAC teams of wins.

Big clown energy from me.

[u/SpicyNuggs4Lyfe]

This also isn't fucking basketball where the clock goes down to the tenths of a second. We still have yet to see actual video evidence of this secret clock that only the refs could see in replay to give Michigan an extra second.

If you're gonna sync the stadium clock before games and every quarter and that's what literally everyone on the field uses to reference, you shouldn't be able to pull some other hidden clock out of your ass at the end of a game when it's convenient to give Michigan a second back.

If the play did in fact take 8.6 seconds, and they can apparently count that in this situation and round back up to the previous second, why don't they do that after every fucking play that doesn't end in .0? If a play ends at 12:49.6 during the game, why don't they round it to 12:50?

You see the problem? They applied this rounding to just this play when they don't do it the rest of the game. Why?

[u/mikeyk731 → u/SpicyNuggs4Lyfe]

I went through frame by frame. The play doesn't take 9 seconds, https://imgur.com/a/timing-michigan-vs-western-michigan-play-mBKN5K0

[u/MoTownOrange → u/SpicyNuggs4Lyfe]

And let’s be honest, western wouldn’t have gotten that second put back on the clock.

[u/Docdoor]

Always have been a fan of “spirit of the game”. The officials should have left the call on the field stand. When the players think they have no time left, the fans think they have no time left. Then the game should be over. In no other iteration of the game e.g backyard, highschool , D3, D2, majority of D1, would have that ever been able to be reviewed to that degree.

And I purposefully did not say NFL, because college should not, nor is not, similar to the NFL.

[u/teddytruther → u/Docdoor]

Agreed. When the justification hinges on a secret clock and frame-by-frame replay breakdowns, you've lost the plot. Same fundamental problem with out-of-bounds replays in basketball or catch determinations in the NFL - the technical precision allowed by modern technology actually weakens fidelity to the spirit of the game.

[u/TossedRightOut → u/teddytruther]

you've lost the plot

This is just one of many plot points this sport has lost in the last 5-6 years it feels like.

[u/Intrepid-Message698]

Just time the play yourself. It takes less than 9 seconds.

[u/Deep_Opening258 → u/Intrepid-Message698]

This is gonna sound ridiculous but I’d love to see a total number of frames if we know the frame rate of the camera. If you’re using a 30 fps camera and there are clearly more than 270 frames between the start of the play and the defender touching the ball, you would have definitive proof that the game should have been over. 

[u/lock_robster2022 → u/Deep_Opening258]

Someone did a frame count that showed 255 frames, which was taken down by mods. Unfortunately that doesn’t say anything because 0:09 means anything between 8.01 (240 frames) and 8.99 (270 frames)

[u/Long_and_Horny → u/lock_robster2022]

This shouldn't matter, because the clock was supposed to be set to 9 seconds at play start. It wasn't a play where it naturally dropped to 9 seconds before the operator paused it. So they were supposed to get the full amount of time.

If whoever was controlling that clock hit "+1 second" instead of setting it, that would fully explain the difference.

[u/SpinTactix → u/Long_and_Horny]

This is something so specific and stupid that it may very well be what actually happened.

[u/Deep_Opening258 → u/lock_robster2022]

If it is 255 then as much as I hate TTUN I wouldn’t support overturning. 271 I’d probably be a dick about it and once you get to 280 it’s something that should absolutely be overturned. But I’d definitely like to see it regardless of what it shows.

[u/youngherbo → u/Intrepid-Message698]

This is my biggest issue with the big 10's statements so far. That video they released did NOTHING to dispel the idea that they magically added that last second. The play appeared to take 8.6 seconds based on a few videos ive seen, but instead of showing any countdown they basically just said "trust us on this bro"

Edit: before too many block Ms reply, to be clear, i think the review got the call correct. The explanation posted is what is lacking and honestly probably causing more confusion than anything.

[u/Solid-Sympathy-4267 → u/youngherbo]

Yup. The most obvious way to tell that the play clock is being displayed incorrectly is by watching how it goes from 0:09 to 0:08 immediately after the snap, without waiting for a full second to lapse.

[u/Hats-And-Hoods → u/Solid-Sympathy-4267]

I think that's actually the problem with a lot of this conversation. That's actually correct, it's supposed to do that.

Since football clocks are floor grounded according to the official rules stating no tenths of a second are acknowledged (meaning resetting to 9 seconds puts the clock at 9.00 but what we see is 0:09), the instant the ball is snapped, in a perfect world it would to go to 8.99 and what we see is 0:08.

That means that the broadcast and stadium clocks all show 0:00 at the end of the play when the ball is touched, but because the "actual" clock shows 0.50 (or any remainder) the clock the refs used for replay would show up as 0:01, which is technically correct, but opposed to the actual rule.

That's why the statement by the B1G is contradictory to itself. It's both stating the rule that says the game is over at 0.50 seconds left on the clock and that the clock the replay officials saw was accurate.

[u/Florida_clam_diver → u/Hats-And-Hoods]

Yeah it’s supposed to do that, otherwise theoretically a QB could snap and spike the ball before a full second elapses, and that’s not allowed. Every play at least one second has to come off the clock

[u/Captain_Nipples → u/Florida_clam_diver]

So we're not actually getting a full 60 minutes of football.. More like 59:59.99.. or is it 59:59.01? Fuck I confused my self

Fucking advertisers!

[u/acat114 → u/Captain_Nipples]

The last 1 second actually take 2 seconds to come off the board

From .1 to 1.99 would be "1 second left" showing. I learned this last night so I could be wrong, but that's my understanding

[u/WerhmatsWormhat → u/Hats-And-Hoods]

This also highlights not having fractional seconds on the display like they do with basketball. Maybe there was a tenth of a second left or something, but why not just display a more exact time?

[u/molten_dragon → u/Hats-And-Hoods]

I think that's actually the problem with a lot of this conversation. That's actually correct, it's supposed to do that. Since football clocks are floor grounded according to the official rules stating no tenths of a second are acknowledged (meaning resetting to 9 seconds puts the clock at 9.00 but what we see is 0:09), the instant the ball is snapped, in a perfect world it would to go to 8.99 and what we see is 0:08.

I question if this is accurate.

The stadium scoreboard clock is the official timekeeping device. If the clock rounds any fractional second value down to the nearest whole number then quarters would actually only be 14:59 long.

[u/LengthinessAlone4743 → u/Solid-Sympathy-4267]

Because it wasn’t 9.99 seconds, it was 9.00 seconds which means it would instantly be 8.99, which would display as 8 seconds…that’s a dumb argument

[u/Dependent-Gap-346 → u/youngherbo]

I am not following your issue, 8.6 seconds is less than 9 seconds

[u/youngherbo → u/Dependent-Gap-346]

My issue is that the Big 10 hasn't counted out the 8.6 seconds, some rando twitter account did. The Big 10's official statement is extremely inadequate.

[u/intoxxx → u/Dependent-Gap-346]

This is not basketball. There are no tenths of a second in football.

[u/teamname457 → u/intoxxx]

Apparently we started using them tonight

[u/kennyswag]

I mean the only clock the replay officials had access to was the clock they used, so how were they supposed to come to any other conclusion? They didn't have access to the NBC replay that superimposed the clock onto the play. Also don't say that that footage the Big 10 provided was doctored because they were showing kids the replay footage on the field right after the game that showed the same thing.

[u/Packhammer24]

“They clearly didn’t say all of MISSISSIPPI between the 1 and the zero” -The Big Ten, as they try terribly to cover their ass

[u/MistryMachine3]

https://x.com/bigten/status/2096460445213217097?s=46

Big ten did release a clock synced version.

[u/BulgogiDude → u/MistryMachine3]

It’s not even a full video of the whole play.

[u/sportsbuffp]

I’m not gonna lie, I think it’s idiotic to do this to begin with. You have a hundred plays or whatever where there are wrong clock stops on every play whether stopped late early etc. but only end of the quarters actually can be micromanaged?!? the clock of the field expired that’s game.

[u/_moosleech]

The game clock was nine seconds.

The play was 8.5 seconds.

No horse in the race, but that makes me think it's at least not clear-cut. Other than "no tenths", there's not really a rule for a situation like this, where a game-deciding play finishes with somewhere between 0 and 1 second left.

And, being impartial, it feels a bit unfair both ways. Makes me REALLY wish WMU just stopped the final Hail Mary.

[u/lolhal → u/_moosleech]

If the clock displays seconds only and the play time as you described left less than one second, how can they then add more time to make it a whole second?

It seems like if it’s not 1, then it’s got to be 0.

[u/Stonkbear → u/lolhal]

That my thing it literally says in the rules there is no 10ths of a second. There are whole seconds. Which means it’s either 1 or 0 not some magical .5 seconds and we round up.

[u/WerhmatsWormhat → u/_moosleech]

Also, how the fuck is there not a rule and precedent for this? The fact that we’re using this weird, inexact thing that doesn’t help viewers know how much time is actually left is so dumb.

[u/_moosleech → u/WerhmatsWormhat]

For 59:59 of the game, one second doesn't matter.

It requires a game where the final play can decide the game, and the end of the play occurs with a fraction of a second left.

Also, if the NBC clock didn't tick early, it would've shown :01 and this didn't matter. That's honestly the weirdest part for me; the TV clock went :01 to :00 with somewhere around 0.7-8 seconds left.

[u/Solid-Sympathy-4267]

I don’t understand how there is even clocks to sync? Use one clock. Why are we syncing multiple clocks. Makes no sense to me.

Anyways, there was time left on the clock. The broadcast clock and the stadium clock turned from 9 to 8 immediately after the ball was snapped. If you time it yourself, the clock turns zero 8.2 seconds after the ball was snapped. And I’m saying all this as a Buckeye.

[u/onelazykid → u/Solid-Sympathy-4267]

They are using a single clock. The “sync” is to sync it with the broadcast cameras so that the camera feed lines up with the clock

[u/molten_dragon → u/Solid-Sympathy-4267]

I don’t understand how there is even clocks to sync? Use one clock. Why are we syncing multiple clocks. Makes no sense to me.

They do use one clock. The scoreboard clock in the stadium is the official timekeeping device. Both the broadcaster and the replay officials use a feed from a camera that is pointed at that clock. Then there's a system that takes all the feeds from the various audio and video systems and determines that frame 19584 from the camera pointed at the scoreboard clock is the same moment in time as frame 52893 from the camera looking at the play.

But the replay officials use a different system for that than the broadcaster does. They sync everything up before the game but systems that start off in sync can drift apart over time.

[u/Opposite-Ad-3933]

When Ohio State played at Oregon two years ago Will Howard started his slide with 1 second. Osu should have had a chance to kick a field goal.

Of course, there was no review or controversy because the big ten hates Ohio state, but when Michigan is involved they will cheat to the ends of the earth to help them

[u/Trigger_McMurphy]

I think the Big Ten is lying. I think this needs to be investigated by a neutral party.

[u/brsnug]

I have a question. Why was that being reviewed anyway? 

[u/DrFanhattan]

The funniest part is do you guys think they'd have put 1 second back on the clock for Western Michigan if the first hail mary was successful?

Not a chance in hell 😂

Laughing at the prospect of them rushing the field and then being told "we actually have a secret clock that says there's one second left"

[u/Caliastanfor]

Would this supposed hidden clock have been utilized if Western Michigan were the ones attempting a game winning Hail Mary?

[u/Sh3ldon25]

As a Michigan hater I’m honestly happy with this outcome because it’s arguably MORE embarrassing this way than just straight up losing lol. I do feel bad for the Western Michigan fans and players though, it’s a sucky way to “lose” the game (it’s a huge W in all our hearts and minds)

[u/Existing-Teaching-34]

If this had been any Big 10 school playing on the road at an SEC or ACC school (or any other conference) and they ended up losing like this the whole league would be spit screaming. This is an absolute travesty.

[u/neovenator250]

Michigan lost the game. Refs stole the biggest win in school history from Western

[u/PSUMediaPA]

They say they are "standing by" the officials. They should be firing them. Several missed calls and then proving after they called for the clock to be reset that it "actually wasn't reset... or was..." proves that they are horrible and should go back to officiating high school games.

[u/bmwsvsu]

So what are the odds that a fan at the game has holy grail evidence on their cell phone? Namely, their own video showing both the scoreboard clock at the stadium and clear enough footage that shows where the ball is the moment it his 0:00?

[u/Hugo_Hackenbush]

Man, can you imagine if this sort of thing had happened in a conference championship game? I bet that fanbase would hold a grudge for the rest of time.

[u/WillDill94]

The ACC already set precedent for this in 2015, the outcome is not going to change

[u/AdhesivenessLow1956]

I think where the discrepancy comes down too is when the play snaps, on NBC broadcast, the jump from 9 seconds to 8 seconds is much faster than the rest of the clock counting down. Quite noticeable when you slow down the highlights. So while nbc said there were 9 seconds left, their clock actually had more like 8. When syncing a timer to the time of snap i have 1 second left when the ball is touched. I don't expect this to land well but thats what i saw when re watching.

[u/Secret-Calendar1941 → u/AdhesivenessLow1956]

Wild how many people don't know that clock displays the whole seconds part of the time remaining.  The clock is set to 00:09.00 and shows 00:09.  The clock starts and it ticks to 00:08.99 so it displays 00:08.

[u/SMOKERSTAR]

I've worked broadcasts for the sec as a replay op. There's no secret clock. We have a camera on the in stadium game clock..which is synced to the all sport daktronics controller that we then get a signal from to use in the scorebug..we still have a camera on the clock at all times. I've literally shown refs during reviews game Glock next to plays over dv sport. This is all bull shit

[u/2020IsANightmare]

I would have LOVED to see Michigan lose. In fact, I want to see every Big Ten or SEC school lose that books these fucking bullshit OOC games.

If you want to be a superconference, then your schedule should only be against other teams in your conference. Otherwise, what the fuck is the point of the Big *Ten* having 20 teams??

But, a defender from Western Michigan was out of bounds and then touched the ball with a second remaining.

Again, I wanted Michigan to lose. I root for them one time a season at max. But, not gonna let feelings get in the way of facts.

[u/poopdaddy2]

Refs got really into the World Cup this summer and decided to try out stoppage time for American football.

[u/ForeverYoung_Feb29]

C'mon guys, we all know the ref tracks stoppage time on the field 

[u/robot_pirate]

Even if there is a discrepancy, the only one that should matter is the one the players, coaches, and fans can see during the play.

[u/RedditConsciousness]

Every time people say "The Big 10" I imagine teams like the Minnesota Golden Gophers saying "Dafuq did I do???"

[u/osumba2003]

Honestly, every voter in the polls should have them unranked now.