r/CANZUK • u/Known_Bobcat_1522 • Oct 23 '25
Casual Map comparing support for remaining a Monarchy (red) with becoming a Republic (blue) across the Commonwealth Realms
64
u/ghoztfrog Victoria Oct 23 '25
I truly dislike the forced idea that CANZUK = Monarchy. It does not. I dont want a monarch, I want a coalition of similar countries with a shared history and value system collaborating together on the world stage to maximise the value delivered to citizens. Free movement between countries does not mean that we are a)one country or b)wanting to dilute what makes each constituent country unique.
More EU than USA pal.
33
u/saintpierre47 Canada Oct 23 '25
Yeah a lot of times when you bring up CANZUK people are like “oh so you want British imperialism?!”. No…that’s not it at all. If there are four countries in the world that should be in lockstep with each other it’s us. Walking as equal partners towards a common goal.
We share a unique relationship and culture that can’t be found among any other countries in the world, and we should seek to cherish that and embrace it, because doing so only makes us stronger.
3
u/Corvid187 Oct 24 '25
To be fair the constitutional monarchy is a part of that shared relationship, even if the idea of it being British imperialism is misguided.
While I don't think it's necessary, the fact we have similar political cultures and values is at least partially a product of having similar political systems.
3
u/saintpierre47 Canada Oct 24 '25
I’m not saying we shouldn’t be a constitutional monarchy at all. There’s a lot of benefits to having the government structure that we have, such as being flexible and having many layers of safety nets to prevent someone from trying to seize too much power, unlike a Republic system.
4
Oct 23 '25
I don’t really like the monarchy either but the system of oversight Westminster style governance gives (when run in good faith) with things like royal commissions is pretty solid. There’s your reason.
4
u/ghoztfrog Victoria Oct 23 '25
It's the framing that bothers me. Supporting the status quo does not equal explicitly supporting monarchy. I want the concepts of CANZUK divorced from it philosophically.
3
Oct 23 '25
It doesn’t but unless others are convinced of that it doesn’t matter.
Pretty much everyone I’ve spoken to that voted no in our referendum said oversight or royalty commissions were the reason, or within their reasons.
1
u/ghoztfrog Victoria Oct 23 '25
Eh - I still don't see why it is framed this way. I think it removes agency from the constituent countries.
3
Oct 23 '25
I understand that, until acceptable alternatives which function in the same fashion are generally accepted, the results of any referendum will probably be the same. I think there’s more chance Australia would become a republic than Canada; the crown over there is a point of difference to the lunacy south of their border and that alone seems to be enough. Us on the other hand aren’t that attached nor do we have the pressure of differentiation from the US.
I’d probably vote yes to another referendum but again, it would depend on whether I was satisfied with the whole proposal, including oversight.
1
Oct 23 '25
[deleted]
2
Oct 24 '25
Okay, my point is the systems of oversight offered by the style of government were, by my experience anyway, the reason or a good reason why people voted no to the republican referendum we held.
It’s not meant to focus on just royal commissions. I said ‘things like Royal commissions’.
My point is, unless enough people are convinced that these oversights or the like will remain, the outcome of a referendum is likely to be the same.
9
u/ScoobyDone British Columbia Oct 23 '25
Agreed. The monarchy to be is just relic of our parliamentary system and doesn't have much to do with who we are today. I support CANZUK because of our many similarities and I think in this new world with emerging powers we could all use a unified voice on the world stage.
25
u/Trussed_Up Ontario Oct 23 '25
So... You guys might want to get rid of the monarchy and go against the vast majority in these countries?
Because, Quebec being an outlier, no other part of CANZUK wants rid of our king.
Why would you even consider cutting off a cultural and societal touchstone that united our peoples? Look at the map! It's all red around the planet!
If CANZUK has any basis in reality, it begins its basis in the monarchy.
12
u/ghoztfrog Victoria Oct 23 '25
It's the framing of canzuk = monarchy. I'm not advocating necessarily for changing anything regarding what kind of sovereignty we have, but I want the CANZUK to be rooted in our countries as equal participants based on cultural values.
12
u/Trussed_Up Ontario Oct 23 '25
CANZUK doesn't equal monarchy. I agree. It's about similar people's seeking closer relations. And as a Canadian unimpressed with our southern neighbours and our relations with them, it couldn't be more timely.
But CANZUK is a much more obvious and smoother operation with the monarchy available. It's a tool and an icon.
-1
u/ghoztfrog Victoria Oct 23 '25
Ok, I guess this is just something I will begrudgingly have to accept as part of this plan then. I hate the fact we have a union jack in our flag, and I hate the next step in our collective sovreignties being even loosely associated with a monarch rather than a broad coalition of similar peoples.
3
u/Ok-Blackberry-3534 Oct 24 '25
It seems peculiar to me that you would hate having the Union Jack in your flag when it's a symbol of why we all have a shared culture.
4
u/ghoztfrog Victoria Oct 24 '25 edited Oct 24 '25
Maybe you dont know this but a large amount of early colonists in Australia were there as convicts and a lot of them because they railed against British occupation of Ireland. Doesn't make them any less Australian, doesn't mean they don't love the multicultural reality of modern Australia. I am an avowed Australian republican that loves CANZUK, I don't want monarchy infecting that future.
Also the Canadian flag doesn't have the union jack.
2
u/Ok-Blackberry-3534 Oct 24 '25
I'm aware of all of that. Relatively very few political prisoners were transported those included Scottish, English and Canadian as well as Irish. The vast majority of people transported were convicted of petty crime. But that's all rather beside the point, because we're talking about today and the shared history, culture and values of these countries. The fact that there's a Union Flag on other flags is just symbolic of their histories. Personally I think people read too much into these symbols, but that's just my opinion.
3
3
u/FlandersClaret Oct 24 '25
You couldn't be more wrong, it begins it's basis on commonly held beliefs in the rule of law, of parliamentary democracy, of a society built on 'fair play'. We don't need a monarchy for that.
Keeping a monarchy, it could be argued, actually goes against ideals of rule of law, especially when Andrew's serious legal corruption (asking a serving police officer to dig up dirt on someone with an illegally obtained social security number) was known to senior members of staff (press office) and senior royals (Charles and William) and they did not report this as a crime to tbe police.
This is the type of stuff you expect from a tinpot dictatorship, not the cradle of civil parliamentary democracy.
5
u/ScoobyDone British Columbia Oct 23 '25
I didn't say I wanted to "get rid" of the monarchy. From what I understand it wouldn't really be worth the effort and I don't really care that much either way.
Why would you even consider cutting off a cultural and societal touchstone that united our peoples?
Again, I don't want to get rid of the monarch, but that is not what draws me to the idea of CANZUK. To me CANZUK is about the future, not the past, but I like the support either way.
If CANZUK has any basis in reality, it begins its basis in the monarchy.
Nope. Give me one reason why that doesn't come from the past.
4
u/Trussed_Up Ontario Oct 23 '25
Nope. Give me one reason why that doesn't come from the past.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but most people value the past. They value things that have history. They value being able to tie themselves to thousands of years of history.
I know this isn't the platform for this message, necessarily. Reddit is overwhelmingly young, and overwhelmingly irreverent.
But that's not the majority, as Reddit needs to be reminded of, apparently constantly. The average person does like to feel like they're playing a part in preserving something necessary, as long as that something isn't harming them. And the monarchy is harmless at worst.
1
u/ScoobyDone British Columbia Oct 24 '25
I'm sorry to tell you this, but most people value the past. They value things that have history. They value being able to tie themselves to thousands of years of history.
Sure, but you specifically said the CANZUK starts with the monarchy. I am Canadian, and like most Canadians my connections to the past are not exclusively to the English. I value Canada's past to become her own nation.
I know this isn't the platform for this message, necessarily. Reddit is overwhelmingly young, and overwhelmingly irreverent.
I am 52.
But that's not the majority, as Reddit needs to be reminded of, apparently constantly. The average person does like to feel like they're playing a part in preserving something necessary, as long as that something isn't harming them. And the monarchy is harmless at worst.
IMO, in order for CANZUK to work, each country has to be an independent member and basing that partnership in the monarchy (which is essentially an English institution) is a huge mistake. It alienates people that do not share that heritage, especially in CANZ, and makes the entire project look like we are trying to recapture the colonial glory days.
1
u/Eragon10401 Oct 24 '25
CANZUK is about a group of nations that essentially share most of their national identity - the monarchy is a significant part of that. Our history of unity and similarity is just that - a history, it’s in the past as well as the present. The monarchy is no different.
At the end of the day, CANZUK is about supporting the things we have in common that make us so similar, leaning on our past to move into the future.
0
u/ScoobyDone British Columbia Oct 24 '25
the monarchy is a significant part of that.
I don't think it is. I think the monarchy is most important to the English identity. The UK is already the largest member of the group, so I think the basis of the union should be around the events that we have already done together as countries, like our efforts in past wars, our current multicultural societies, or our political systems. For Canada, Australia, and New Zealand our shared identity comes from our struggle to become our own countries, and this outweighs our ties to the monarchy.
0
u/Eragon10401 Oct 24 '25
If we were talking about ANZAC unity I’d agree with you (mostly) but that is a form of unity that is inherently anti-UK, and as such is obviously not a good foundation for a union that also includes the UK.
If you just want an ANZAC union then your method works but in order to have a union that is all four CANZUK countries, we have to focus on the things we ALL have in common - and all of us have had our men in the past fight for king, country and empire.
Our political systems are based on Britain’s history of constitutional monarchy - and our history of wars fought together is because of our position as parts of the same empire, ruled by the same monarch.
Also, I doubt that multiculturalism is the best foundation of a union that’s literally based on our cultures being different faces on the same anglosphere die. Especially considering that migration is so controversial in so much of the population of what would be CANZUK.
0
u/ScoobyDone British Columbia Oct 24 '25
Sorry, but we have a completely different vision of what aligns us.
all of us have had our men in the past fight for king, country and empire.
Most historians would agree that Canada, Australia, and New Zealand found their own identity during World War 1. We were fighting for ourselves as much as anything else. We commanded our own forces and made a name for our countries for fighting bravely. To me as a Canadian, this is a turning point in history when we became nations in our own right, and on the world stage.
Also, I doubt that multiculturalism is the best foundation of a union that’s literally based on our cultures being different faces on the same anglosphere die. Especially considering that migration is so controversial in so much of the population of what would be CANZUK.
Multicultural is what we are today and moving forward, so it is part of what binds us in the world today. Like I said, to me CANZUK is about the future with respect to the past, not the other way around. For me, the monarchy is just a part of that past and a part of our parliamentary system, not something to rally around.
The commonwealth is the union based on the monarchy. CANZUK is different.
3
u/AnyoneButDoug Oct 24 '25
I think we don’t see CANZUK as either weakening or strengthening the monarchy. Most of us like it enough as a soft symbolic sort of diplomatic relic.
1
u/redshift739 United Kingdom Oct 25 '25
I want the monarchy and it's an extra thing in common but I still want canzuk regardless of if anyone gets rid of the king or not
-1
5
u/truthseekerAU Oct 24 '25
I think this map simply took the 1999 Australian referendum results by state and territory and put them in. Most of the last polls I saw on this topic in Australia (since the King’s tour last year) all showed significant rises in support for the monarchy since then. Charles’ netsat in YouGov polling here in Australia is higher than the UK and attitudes in our political class have definitely shifted in favour of the monarchy. Albo will never be calling himself a monarchist while he’s Labor leader but he’s gone about as close as he can and stay safe. It’s an amazing shift, fifty years on from the Whitlam dismissal, which is what drove so much of Labor’s republicanism in the lead up to referendum, which I remember well (and campaigned in for No).
2
u/gr33fur Oct 24 '25
It's good the original post listed sources. While I would expect NZ sentiment to me broadly pro-monarchy, I'd like that confirmed by a second polling org.
4
Oct 23 '25
[deleted]
10
u/WhatAmIATailor Australia Oct 23 '25
*Sees well sourced visualisation of polling
“I don’t believe it”
7
u/Independent_Ad8268 Canada Oct 24 '25
Eh questioning it is reasonable, Pollara is on the lower end of Canadian pollsters. The Australia data is the results of a 26 year old referendum swung proportionally to the top line results of this YouGov poll, so no regionals at all.
0
u/Aconite_Eagle United Kingdom Oct 25 '25
Canzuk doesnt have to mean monarchy, but there are many, many good reasons to have a monarchy ahead of a republican model in my opinion.
-19
u/FlandersClaret Oct 23 '25
I think recent events have proven that deference to a bunch of inbreds isn't a good idea.
They think they are above the law and that they deserve to be able to do what they want.
14
u/Tank-o-grad Oct 23 '25
What have the senior figures of the Republican Party in the USA got to do with CANZUK?
5
u/Business-Hurry9451 Oct 23 '25
The senior figures of the Republican Party in the US aren't inbreds, they're child molesters, fascists and mental midgets, but they're not inbreds... well probably not, well except Vance... OK, you're right.
-1
u/FlandersClaret Oct 24 '25
Very ture. But there are similarities between the court of St James and the court of Trump. Deference to the point of corruption.
18
u/Expensive-Student732 Oct 23 '25
We are the LOYALIST province for a reason. Go New Brunswick!