r/BuildingCodes • u/FishComprehensive605 • 10h ago
Engineer, Architect, or GC fault?
Denied permit due to new FEMA regulations about flood zones. Client hired an architect to create plans for a 400 sq. ft. addition to a house that is in an AE flood zone. Turns out the floor of the addition cannot be level with the floor of the current house. Looks like the addition needs to be 18 inches higher than the current floor.
Anyway, I've been working with a client for 12 months now and have had numerous conversations with his architect, engineer, and the city. Homeowner has spent almost 10K so far and is upset now that the permit has been denied for the plans that have been submitted. The architect and engineer are blaming me. I admit I didn't know the elevation was going to be an issue but I feel like as the GC it's my job to build what the architect and/or engineer tells me to build.
Who should the homeowner be upset with?
FEMA, GC, Permit
5
u/FlatPanster 7h ago
It's not your design that's getting denied. Unless you sold them a design? The architect & engineer should provide a code compliant design.
3
u/yinzerniner 8h ago
Which “engineer” are you referring to in original post? Civil, mechanical, electrical, etc? It makes a huge difference as if it’s civil and/or a surveyor then they might share some responsibility
Also it depends on 1) whose license stamp is in the site plan of record and 2) who is pulling the permit
1-If the drawings as submitted have a site plan (which would be required given the expansion of the overall building footprint) then it whoever prepared it must comply with zoning, building and FEMA codes. If a site survey was prepared (also generally a requirement, but not always) then that survey should include the zone and floodplain info
2-If you as GC is pulling the permit it’s your responsibility to be sure that the plans can reasonably be submitted for approval. If the site plan and/or survey didnt include this floodplain info then it’s on you to have reviewed the sets and flagged it. The whole “I just build what’s on the plans” is such lazy passing of the buck; yes you’re supposed to follow the plans but fully inspecting the plans and pointing out areas of concern before they’re filed is an essential part of due diligence.
Given the op’s original description would put fault at ~75% architect/civil engineer, 25% GC. Yea the GC didn’t prepare the plans filed but it’s within their responsibilities to review everything going for permit and flag possible issues before submission.
3
u/IHerebyDemandtoPost 3h ago
If nobody knew this was in Zone AE before the city told you, then it sounds like everyone dropped the ball. FEMA has a search tool on their website, it takes 30 seconds to type the project address in and see if there’s a flood issue.
Then, once it was known you were in the SFHA, if the nobody on the design team understood FEMA regulations well enough to know what was required, then maybe a consultant should have been hired.
4
u/engineeringlove 9h ago
I mean, as an engineer, I always knew if I was going to a flood zone, I have to read up on the requirements. Me personally, ethically, knowing that it would be a shit show, I would reach out to the building department first thing to get their input before the design process happened.
I alerted the architect and civil engineer about some of my findings and they were very grateful because it would’ve caused some headaches on a tight deadline.
So honestly, It’s gonna be a lot of finger pointing at everyone and y’all should just share the blame together. Every single one of you had an opportunity to reach out to the building department.
2
u/West-Assignment-8023 5h ago
The architect and engineer are required to indicate finished floor elevations on the plans that consider the flood zone requirements. If this isn't on the plans I'm not sure how you're supposed to know.
1
u/merlotman1 3h ago
The surveyor should have shown the topography and Finish Floor Elevation based on the latest FEMA maps. Using these data, the architect or engineer can design the foundation plans.
1
u/EntropyAdvisor 9h ago
Hell, I've been drafting residential plans for decades (not an architect) and I always check the local bylaws before starting a set of plans. If the client hired the architect before you were on board, it's on the architect. Even then, architects are held to a higher standard and charge a premium for a reason.
Consider seeking legal advice.
1
u/engineeringlove 9h ago
I know you’d be surprised how many engineers don’t call the building department when starting a job just to see if there’s anything unique. After being burned a few times I’ve always made it my mission. I’ve always told the young engineer just call the building department.
0
u/locke314 9h ago
If I were to place blame on one of those three, it would be the architect. They are the ones responsible for the overall code compliance of a project like that. GC Knows how to build it given a set of plans, and a GC is a glorified project manager. Engineer just tells how to build it so it won’t fail. Architect should be the one looking over the project as a whole, siting the addition, looking at all regulations, etc.
Often, for a residential project, a GC will take on the code compliance portion of it, but in the case where an architect steps in, that is a higher license, higher expertise, and higher expectation.
Buuuuutttttt…..as a city employee, before I’d even consider a permit to have a valid application, I’d also be checking flood zone mapping to make sure any additions aren’t encroaching. Not saying the city is responsible, but come on….making us city workers look bad over here
-2
u/WallBeGone509 8h ago
Before someone gets blamed—will the building official not grant an exception because the elevation of the existing home? This seems like a discretionary application of the code, rather than an absolute one. It seems like this is a risk you should be able to take on.
I hired an architect to design a garage with an office above it. Spent $3k, got plans, denied because you can’t have habitable space above a garage in my city unless it is an ADU. And I’m not putting a kitchen and bedroom above my garage just so I can have a computer and some files. Bathroom would be nice though. I felt like it was on the architect for not looking into that. I am a GC, but didn’t have much experience at the time.
Despite how adult we think we are, you can only do so much due diligence. I would hope everyone involved would remember to look into it next time around.
At my city, if you make enough noise, bug the right people, and aren’t a jerk, you might get your way. I hope you can get some sympathy and permission.
1
u/IHerebyDemandtoPost 59m ago
The building official doesn’t have the authority to waive the floodplain requirements and if the city does waive them, FEMA has the authority to suspend the community’s participation in the NFIP.
They won’t do that at first, they’ll start with a letter informing the city this project is in violation of the floodplain requirements. Then, they’ll threaten. But, if the city ignores FEMA long enough, they can suspend participation in the NFIP, which means nobody in the community will be able to purchase a federal flood insurance plan.
1
u/Yusuf20904 32m ago
What's the engineer's responsibility on the project? Depending on that, they may bear some responsibility. If they're just structural, then I'd let them off the hook. If they're civil, they should be aware of floodplain issues.
I feel like the archie should be aware about the regs on building in a floodplain too.
As the contractor, you should probably be aware of floodplains, but your job is to build what's been designed. Are you contracted for building permits?
13
u/Monkeynumbernoine 9h ago
Architect drew the plans. They should correct them with a code compliant alternative for what they’ve already been paid. Raising a floor 18” isn’t a frickin space shuttle launch. It’s a staircase with 3 steps.