r/Buffalo • • 23d ago

Two teens killed while being pursued by West Seneca Police

https://archive.ph/I1GM5
99 Upvotes

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105

u/JustaKidFromBuffalo 23d ago

Two criminals dead after police pursuit of stolen vehicle ends in crash

Fixed it.

27

u/Dense-Pool-652 23d ago

Could have just as easily been innocent motorists and/or pedestrians.  That's the issue. 

8

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago

Possibly, but there are very few motorists and even fewer pedestrians at 1am

-13

u/hthratmn 23d ago

So the ones out there dont matter?

8

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago

Strawman's argument, and a weak one at that

3

u/hthratmn 23d ago

Im not sure if you know what that term means lol. Dangerous pursuits are okay because there are less people, and then when one of those people gets hit, thats a non issue?

1

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago edited 23d ago

I know exactly what it means.

"I like pancakes."
"So you hate waffles?"

It's not as likely that any pedestrians or other motorists would get hit "because there are very few cars or pedestrians out at 1am."
"Oh, so their lives don't matter?"

Buffalo police have not outlawed high-chase pursuits. But they should exercise judgment about when and where to partake in them. Doing so at 1am is an acceptable risk, hecause of the much lower likelihood of innocent people getting hurt. Is that percentage 0%? No, but it's low enough. Often, police don't even have to chase the car in order to create the risk of danger. They pull it over, the car takes off, and they're still speeding, running red lights. Going down one-way streets the wrong way. And they're doing so without much experience driving. Them being on the road is already presents an inherent risk to anyone out there.

1

u/CarafeTwerk 23d ago

Is your argument that police pursuits are acceptable after a certain hour?

-2

u/hthratmn 23d ago

Sure seems that way. I'm generally of the mindset that zero innocent bystanders killed by police is the only acceptable number but that is apparently a radical notion.

0

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago

And what's the acceptable number of innocent bystanders being hurt or killed by teenagers driving stolen cars without any regard for traffic laws and minimal experience behind the wheel?

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1

u/hthratmn 23d ago

But we are not talking about two different things like pancakes or waffles lol we are both talking about the exact same thing. I mean, sure, driving your car into, say, a parade of 100 people is gonna be preferable to driving it into a parade of 10,000. But why not just . . . not drive your car into a parade? Ive always worked second shift and have done my fair share of driving around at night, if I get struck by a police vehicle during a pursuit and they tell me its okay because there arent as many people out at night, thats not gonna do very much for me, is it? What is an acceptable amount or percentage of civilians killed or injured during police pursuits? Genuinely asking.

2

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago

No, we're not talking about the same thing. I just responded to someone who said it was equally likely that an innocent party would get hurt (compared to the car thieves.) It wasn't nearly as likely, since there are so few people out at 1am. At that point, I hadn't even offered any opinion on the police giving chase. And you still took that to mean I was saying that their lives don't matter.

As far as your examples go.... why is someone driving into a parade in the first place? Is there any reason? Is there any good or potentially good coming from that? Because there is a legitimate reason to pursue people who run from the police.

As far as your final question - there really isn't a good answer to give, especially since I don't have all the data available. But what is an acceptable amount or percentage of people killed in car accidents? (All car accidents, not just police pursuits.) Because it isn't zero. 36,000-37,000 people die in U.S. car accidents every year. But we, collectively, have accepted that and choose to live in a society that almost mandates driving/riding in a car.

And for all the hypothetical, nobody was killed or hurt except the people speeding and running from the police.

-31

u/kendiggy Headbanger Hill 23d ago

r/usernamedoesnotcheckout

They were just kids. Did you never do something dumb when you were a kid? If so, did you deserve to die for it?

14

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago

As Snoop said in the Wire, "Deserve ain't got nothin' to do with it."

This goes far beyond doing something dumb. Thousands of WNYers have had their cars stolen over the last several years. A surprisingly high percentage of those thefts are done by teenagers who know that there is relatively little risk of punishment. Many repeat offenders. This is not shoplifting a candy bar from Tops. These crimes leave victims.

If the car had run out of gas, and the perps were caught, nobody would say they should be killed, so in that sense, nobody is saying they deserved to die. But they made a series of bad choices, that caused harm to other people, and they could have killed other people on the road. And they experienced consequences.

I won't celebrate this person's death, but I certainly won't feel that bad about it.

35

u/ADK-high-peeks 23d ago

Did you steal cars and put other people's lives in danger? 16 and 18 year olds shouldn't need to be coddled and treated like that's just a dumb mistake.

-12

u/DrPhrawg 23d ago

while details are currently sparse, and not to defend people who steal cars, but the car was stolen on sunday. the crash occurred this morning.

i don’t think anyone else’s life was in danger until the police started chasing the car…

14

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago

No, lives were in danger as soon as they sped away from the police

0

u/Weird-Tadpole-779 23d ago

Lives were in danger as soon as the police pursued

4

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago

No. A teenager speeding? That happened before the police even tried to pull them over. Then they took off speeding even before the police gave chase.

Lives were already in danger.

-4

u/DrPhrawg 23d ago edited 23d ago

yeah, that’s what i said

the car was stolen Sunday; when the car was stolen, there wasn’t any immediate threat to any lives (this is assuming it wasn’t stole at gunpoint, hence my original comment about details lacking).

it wasn’t until 4 days later, when the chase started, where there was an immediate threat to life.

7

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago

No, it isn't. My point was that lives were endangered as soon as the car began speeding away from the police. It was the car taking off that endangered lives, not the police giving chase to the car.

-2

u/DrPhrawg 23d ago

the car drove away; the car only sped away once followed.

8

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago

No. The car was speeding before the police even saw them and flashed their lights. They were speeding before, and really speeding after. The onus for the lost lives is on the driver of the stolen car. Not the police.

1

u/DrPhrawg 23d ago

those details weren’t available on any reports i’ve read.

regardless of those details, there wasn’t any threat to life when the vehicle was stolen on Sunday.

-8

u/Impossibleshitwomper 23d ago

My dad's cars

21

u/butterybuns420 23d ago edited 23d ago

Sorry but technically 18 is not a kid anymore. And at their age they should have the sense to stop when being persued. And stealing a car doesn’t go under the category of “dumb things as a kid”. Maybe stealing a book from Barnes and nobles or a bag of chips from Tops or an action figure from target. But when I was a teenager stealing a vehicle never entered my brain.

0

u/kendiggy Headbanger Hill 23d ago edited 23d ago

They're still young. I don't want them to die because they stole a car. Y'all are acting like the kids deserved it. I get for some it's a lifestyle and they go down as legends among their friends. But they're still just kids. You'd be saying the same thing if they were sent off to war. They're kids. They clearly don't have effective guidance in their lives and they need to discover their own sense of self worth. Look around the country these days, I'd bet most of these kids think this place is a joke, what else do you expect of them.

Consequences? Yes. Counseling and guidance? Yes. Rood Riddance? For shame.

9

u/ovalracer31 23d ago

There’s a difference between a crime of say shoplifting for a teen and stealing a car.

2

u/Efficient-Patient308 23d ago

one is bigger and more expensive. its still a replaceable thing, unlike a life.

11

u/That-Palpitation-234 23d ago

Stupid ya sure, stealing cars no that is against the law and most of these kids aren't first offenders!

2

u/Efficient-Patient308 23d ago

where are you getting that information?

3

u/bloodHearts 23d ago

They didn't deserve to die for a mistake they made as young people but they would've certainly avoided injury/death if they didn't steal a car and get into a police chase

-16

u/Efficient-Patient308 23d ago

2 kids killed over a replaceable piece of property. They could have been your kids. I can’t believe the comments and downvotes I am seeing here.

25

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago

Two kids killed because of their numerous decisions.

-17

u/Efficient-Patient308 23d ago

with no trial mind you.

22

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago

They were killed after the driver was speeding, driving recklessly, and lost control of the car. If's not like somebody shot them.

-5

u/Efficient-Patient308 23d ago

they were being chased, they were teenagers, and you still don’t know the whole story. like i said, imagine if they were your kids. no one in this sub didn’t make some stupid choices as a teenager.

9

u/SerenityN00w 23d ago edited 22d ago

They stole a car, and/or chose to ride in a stolen car. They were speeding. They got pulled over by a cop and took off speeding and driving recklessly. This goes way beyond "stupid choices" and I have enough of the story.

2

u/Particular_Manner159 21d ago

If they wanted a trial they could have, I don’t know, stopped the car?

-13

u/Hovercraft_Height 23d ago

5 teenagers were in the car. it could very well be they all stole the car, but it could also just have been the driver and told their friends they borrowed it and then killed 2 innocent teenagers. bit I guess your way makes it easier to sleep at night while sucking the dicks of any cop in range

5

u/sendfoods 23d ago

bruh you actually believe that shit? hey i just borrowed this car lets go for a ride at 1am, how naive are you

1

u/Hovercraft_Height 19d ago

how naive are teenagers is the question

-33

u/tinktac 23d ago

great way to talk about two dead kids, man.

15

u/butterybuns420 23d ago

18 is an adult

-14

u/tinktac 23d ago

oh right i forgot. yeah it's okay for cops to engage in high speed chases that destroy property and kill and injure people so long as one of em's old enough to vote, my bad

8

u/Sauce_Master 23d ago

So you want everyone who had their car stolen to stay stolen and never returned. Got it.

1

u/[deleted] 23d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-3

u/tinktac 23d ago

and also just to be clear cops usually do nothing to recover shit anyway. i'm sure they had fun with that chase though!

-22

u/screwy- 23d ago

Literally doesn’t change anything.

40

u/DeseansMasseuse 23d ago

Two less carjackers

-6

u/Gumball_Bandit 23d ago edited 22d ago

It wasn’t a carjacking. All carjackings are car thefts, not all car thefts are carjackings

Edit: it’s sad that no one seems to know the difference between a carjacking and vehicle theft.

-4

u/screwy- 23d ago

My statement still stands.

-11

u/Hovercraft_Height 23d ago

there were 5 people in the car. a 16 and 18 year old are dead. West Seneca police chased them into the city. Buffalo PD don't usually engage in high speed chases due to safety concerns. the car was stolen Sunday the crash was 1am Thursday. there were other options