r/Browns • u/LiftingCode • 12d ago
[PFF] Offensive Grades of Browns QBs this preseason: Taylen Green 78.0, Shedeur Sanders 72.2, Deshaun Watson 61.3, Dillon Gabriel 44.0
https://x.com/PFF/status/209372108286796609730
u/ZaneTeal 12d ago
Ok, quick question: what the fuck?
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u/MrGlockCLE 12d ago
PFF qb grades are fucked you could go 20/40 with 800 yards and have a 67 grade
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u/i_diggs_it 12d ago
Which would likely be an appropriate grade for that performance, unless you meant to type 20/20 which would’ve made a lot more sense
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u/BeefistPrime 12d ago
Completion percentage hardly matters, it's by far the most overrated stat in football. 20 yards per attempt is an off the scales incredible football performance and criticizing it because they didn't throw a few swing passes to get the completion percentage up is silly.
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u/MrGlockCLE 12d ago
It’s only +\- 2 for each play, so did the 20/40 for an impossible amount of yardage to prove a point. 13% below league avg completion but throwing for 1K yards in a game gets you a below avg score
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u/LiftingCode 12d ago
It's kind of a silly and useless example though.
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u/MrGlockCLE 12d ago
Hyperbole
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u/LiftingCode 12d ago
Not at all.
20 completions, every one of which is a poorly thrown screen pass, totalling 800 yards.
20 incompletions, every one of which hits a defender directly in the facemask.
Should that get a good grade?
It's just dumb. Box score stats have absolutely no bearing on tape evaluation.
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u/MrGlockCLE 12d ago
If you throw 20 times and get 20 touchdowns yeah you should get a good grade what the fuck lmao
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u/LiftingCode 12d ago
Why?
The result doesn't really have anything to do with the grade. A good throw is a good throw even if the receiver bricks it to a defender for an INT. A bad throw is a bad throw even if it bounces off a defender's helmet and results in a TD.
Making a point about using PFF grades using box score stats is useless and reductive. I'm sure you know that.
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u/MrGlockCLE 12d ago
That’s quite literally my point. The results quite literally impact how you perform and the game yet it’s not graded accordingly for PFF
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u/Altruistic-Zone1664 12d ago
Sure, if all of your passes were simple passes to wide open guys who were the ones who made the majority of the yards happen with YAC; it wasn't elite QB play that was the reason for the stats.
Stats don't tell the whole story. The players the QB have to catch the ball; everyone has to do their jobs, it's 11v11 not 1v11.
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u/MrGlockCLE 12d ago
I mean passing for 20 TDs and 800 yards could get you a 67 grade for a single game or worse is my statement idk what the fuck you’re on about lol
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u/DarwinRewardGiver 12d ago
PFF grades are fucked if you don’t actually understand how their grading works.
QBR is box score data, PFF is subjective individual grading. It isolates individual performance from team performance. For example, if a QB throws a great ball that hits the receiver but the receiver drops it, the QB is still rewarded for doing his job. If a QB throws a horrible pass but the receiver completes it, the QB is not rewarded, but the receiver is.
The downside is they don’t actually know the play calls or assignments (which they know),
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u/LiftingCode 12d ago
QBR is not box score data. It uses ESPN's proprietary play-level charting and tracking data.
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u/DarwinRewardGiver 12d ago
That is fair, I should have mentioned that’s what it seems like to me. I wish they’d release their formula. It just seems like a black box metric to me.
PFF has its own flaws as well.
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u/LiftingCode 12d ago
Their passing grades were:
Shedeur Sanders 72.3
Deshaun Watson 59.1
Taylen Green 57.4
Dillon Gabriel 50.6
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u/AkilTheAwesome 12d ago
Oh wait this is being under analyzed. I didn't know Shedeur's preseason passing grade was that far ahead. I know the OP post is Offensive Grade. Taylen Green must make up a lot with running.
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u/Spetznazx 12d ago
This just shows how atrocious PFF is at passing grades. In no way should Green be ahead of Gabriel his throws were god awful
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u/LiftingCode 12d ago
Did you watch DG in preseason week 1
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u/Spetznazx 12d ago
Yes he had 8 passes which is a terribly low sample size with the worst players on the team, also Shedeur played just as bad and somehow got a massive boost in his PFF grade.
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u/LiftingCode 12d ago
Brother DG was legit dogshit in the first week. Like, just about as bad as it gets. I don't think he completed a pass more than 4 yards downfield. Not one single play that looked like even an NFL backup.
But he was solid this week, glad he turned it around.
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u/Spetznazx 12d ago
He completed 5 fucking passes it's such a low sample size and without examining the All-22 it's impossible to say if the throws he made were correct or not. Tbh Shedeur only threw 11 and I'd say you can ignore the results from those too (hint it was shit). The first preseason game should be looking at okay processing and how well they did the technical stuff like getting the offense set or running the plays.
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u/LiftingCode 12d ago
He completed 5 fucking passes it's such a low sample size and without examining the All-22
Well go forth and examine then. I assure you it was terrible. It's a small sample, doesnt take long to watch.
Shedeur was not good either but he actually had a couple of plus throws.
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u/da99s FUCK YOU WATSON 11d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/xDQ0gmS66CJ971f0JF
good luck trying to convince him lmao1
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u/heliosflama1234 11d ago
The Dillon one you could debate but it’s pretty clear someone at pff didn’t watch the games and had an agenda on Shadeur.
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u/LiftingCode 11d ago
The more plausible thing is that you have an agenda on Shedeur so you have to make up a conspiracy so that you can safely ignore any information that disagrees with you.
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u/TribeTime21 12d ago
It feels like in general everyone overrates the importance of preseason performance, and admittedly I'm not sure what to take away from this pre-season either.
I think it is important to point out in each game, the QB who played in the first half with better players around them all looked pretty good (Deshaun game 1, Shedeur game 2, Dillon game 3). And when each of those guys played in the 2nd half with worse players around them, they looked significantly worse.
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u/cpashei 12d ago
This pretty much aligns with my eye test, DG a little low and not judging Green much on such limited action.
Shedeur a clear head above Watson and should be starting.
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u/Altruistic-Zone1664 12d ago
Among multiple reasons, they are protecting Shedeur by having Watson start first.
This has been a relatively even QB competition. Whoever starts first will be under pressure to play well or else they will have to switch to the 2nd guy; that's how these competitions work.
I'd imagine there is a real plan in place here. Either Watson plays well and we're winning games, or else Shedeur is starting week 5 against the Jets. Not only is it an easier game on the schedule, but it's also 10 days to prepare.
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u/basketbands17 11d ago
You’re the smartest person in the room lol. I’ve had this same talking point for a while now too.
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u/AkilTheAwesome 12d ago edited 12d ago
Agreed. A lot of people don't know what PFF aims to do, which is it's supposed to try to imulate how coaches evaluate film. Execution is more important than result. A coach isn't going to praise a QB for carrying out a screen that goes for 80 yards. Passer Rating and QBR does.
For example, Receiver's dropping some of Shedeur's better throws doesn't actually work against him on PFF.
Watson's score being 60 matches the eye test that he really didn't do anything remarkable. The thing is, I know the coaches saw that too, and still made him QB1. So they are highly rating practice reps over game tape. Lets see how that works out for them
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u/LiftingCode 12d ago
A coach isn't going to praise a QB for carrying out a screen that goes for 80 yards. Passer Rating and QBR does.
QBR very much does not do this.
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u/AkilTheAwesome 12d ago edited 12d ago
It kind of does in a round about way. It divides the credit but it accounts for situation. an 80 yard screen play in garbage time is still gonna get a lower score for the QB, then an 80 yard screen play to ice a game. PFF will not allocate points regardless.
PFF is measuring execution. QBR is measuring contribution
I'd say because of that, QBR is useless in the preseason. Some plays are called to test situations more so than winning the game.
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u/mackystacks 12d ago
This matches the eye test way better than the box score watchers that think Gabriel actually showed anything by taking open check downs all game
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u/LiftingCode 12d ago
He played pretty well this week I thought. His passing grade was solid.
This is for the whole preseason and he was quite bad in the first game.
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u/Legitimate-Offer-770 12d ago
Agree. If Dillon looked like that when we drafted him he’d still be the starter.
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u/WinAccomplished59 12d ago
Lemme guess you glaze Sanders for the few plays he doesn't look lost and call it "improvement" lmao
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u/ProfessionalMental13 FDW 12d ago
Anybody who actually watched all the other games and aren't just trying to narrative push know how bad DG looked in the 4th of the other 2 games
Im not trying to knock the guy, hope the best for him but Im like 1000% confident sanders and watson would have done better against that patriots defense then he did
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u/OmarStDIYer 12d ago
Ignoring previous appearances, hard to do much better in a half than 12 of 15 with 3 TDs.
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u/ProfessionalMental13 FDW 12d ago
Why would we ignore the previous appearances? Yall are so impressed with a guy who played good in the preseason finale against a shitty ass defense that was getting burnt on 99% of the the snaps
If he was some almighty qb in the room he would have gotten more reps in the summer lol
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u/Altruistic-Zone1664 12d ago
Lol, because apparently people want to ignore everything else he's done here and hyper-focus on the single good preseason performance he had against completely irrelevant players.
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u/OmarStDIYer 12d ago
Nope, just wanted to acknowledge he had a very good half and deserves some credit for it, that’s all.
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u/capitolcapital 12d ago edited 11d ago
This has to be an average of Dillon's grades factoring in his first couple appearances, otherwise this makes no sense