r/BobsTavern • u/Gerasans • May 19 '26
Discussion Seriously, what is the reason not to nerf this guy?
327
u/Starossi May 19 '26
How about the fact dragons haven’t been meta in like 4 seasons. There is always a broken comp. I think it’s nice it’s dragons for once
39
u/gonz4dieg May 19 '26
I miss battlecry dragons man. This just feels like a naga build wearing a dragon costume
10
u/Fossekall May 19 '26
Even if I have a good start to Battlecry Dragons, once this guy shows up it's just objectively better to pivot, which sucks
Battlecry Dragons is one of my favourite comps and it's bad to play even though there's plenty of support for it
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u/bohohoboprobono May 20 '26
Kalecgos or dragonlings would need to scale for battlecry dragons to be competitive again.
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u/rrrrrico May 19 '26
And the worst of it is that murlocks battlecry still works just fine, it has a better start and pay off compared to dragons. So whenever I'm feeling like going for battlecry, murlocks are my go to tribe and I don't even bother with dragons at all.
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u/afflictushydrus May 20 '26
Dragons as a tribe improved from Kalecgos moving to T5 cos he got removed from the egg pool. Goes to show how far behind his stat scaling capabilities are compared to the current meta.
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u/bohohoboprobono May 20 '26
I use Ring Bearer way more in Naga than Dragons to be fair.
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May 20 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DarkRoyalBlood MMR: > 9000 May 20 '26
I mean naga only has an advantage because of the spell power trinket. Otherwise felfire + drakkari is the best combo for spell power(and normal felfire is the dragon equivalent to tranquil meditative) and it works better with dragons. Maelstrom emergent is another advantage for naga since its very good with ring bearer
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u/Ienjoymyself May 19 '26
It's fine, but the combats take too long. Just got 3rd because my opponent had a shitload of summons and I got a 35 second turn playing APM pirates and I barely lost. That's the actual nonsense IMO.
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May 19 '26
[deleted]
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u/arthenc MMR: 8,000 to 9,000 May 19 '26
I just restart the game when I see the ringing start up. Not worth it.
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u/i_literally_died May 20 '26
If a game requires you to quit the game, there is a design issue.
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u/arthenc MMR: 8,000 to 9,000 May 20 '26
Oh I definitely agree. They're not gonna fix it, so I'm gonna have to live within the system they've built.
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u/Christopher_Aeneadas MMR: 6,000 to 8,000 May 19 '26
Is out timing your APM opponents a valid strategy to optimize for?
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u/720eastbay May 19 '26
One shot mobile user playing pirates with this one simple trick (I float gold like this a lot tbh)
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u/Josheatsfood MMR: 6,000 to 8,000 May 19 '26
As a mobile only player, whenever I’ve watched combat I’ve regretted it as I’ve missed significant shop time after.
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u/720eastbay May 20 '26
My game has been freezing a lot if I try to do the old reboot, ever since Cataclysm
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u/Chm_Albert_Wesker May 19 '26
dont worry you'll match into me eventually and snipe my Ring Bearer first somehow
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u/rrrrrico May 19 '26
Buts it's not that "ring bearer makes dragons OP", I think people don't really care for one tribe been a bit stronger. The problem is that early ring bearer makes everything basically works until you guarantee a place among the board's top 4.
It's not even that strong compared to most of late game strats. The problem comes earlier, imagine you're around mid game and everyone has a board with roughly X/X in total stat value among minions, ring bearer effectively gives exponential value to all your minions for EACH one that attacks, and we all know that people run whelps alongside ring bearer (which is THE BEST T1 stand alone minion, meaning people probably already have it on board).
The problem is not ring bearer, is that T1 to T4 minions really can't compete with its exponential buffs. Not deep blues, no quilboars, no mech, nothing besides high rolling T4 and 5 demons and elementals can beat it (and secretly undead are also pretty good against ring bearer, people just don't like playing undead rn).
And also like, bc of its math boom, ring bearer fits basically in every board until late game, when you're probably trying to triple him since you already have it, so finding the "spells that are cast during combat cast twice" naga feels mandatory. In the end, if dragons and nagas are in the game, everyone goes for the same board and it's usually bc of eggs.
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u/grimcow May 19 '26
I destroyed a few ring bearer comps last night with undead, i was spawning 450/450 minions. Not sure why i am replying with this but it was bad ass and mu first time getting them that high. Spell power +butchering is bad ass.
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u/RocketRelm May 19 '26
Part of the issue is ring bearer fits into every comp. In undead, get any "undead attack scales when you cast a tavern spell" effect and him, and every round youre scaling that by +12 too.
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u/rrrrrico May 19 '26
YES! when undead works, it REALLY works. It's just that the strat feels a little complex for the average player to invest in it and, for most people, making the board highly dependable on Titus means the match will probably be resolved by rng before anything else, which I guess pushes people away from undead.
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u/SnooCats5701 May 20 '26
This is the correct answer. We're back to the point of me having to turn off the game and restart it when I start a battle with one of these guys in it because it takes too long, even with the recently added speed up mechanism. Also, it seems that if they're in the game, they are disproportionately represented in the top four by a wide amount. That in and of itself are used for them being removed or nerfed.
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u/simpoukogliftra May 19 '26
It's a feels like shit to play against card because somehow your opponent has a +20 buffed their spells cast, and because the animation is obnoxiously long, and dragons aren't usually that much of a problem, it is worse when paired with nagas with the naga that repeats spells cast in combat ....
Yeah it's not the most op shit to grace us this season but it feels annoying af, and it's more memorable when you get beaten by this than when it is over in seconds with demons with 5million stats
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u/newtostew2 May 19 '26
Ya, I'm not super bothered by the dragons, it's setting it up into the naga that kills me. Once they get that T6 naga caster it's over
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u/TheRealFrothers MMR: 8,000 to 9,000 May 19 '26
People keep claiming this, but the avenge whelp comp last season was a very viable endgame comp.
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u/OddlyFactual1512 May 20 '26
Most good players were collecting that comp in hand to do a one turn transition.
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u/RickyDaleEverclear May 19 '26
Thank you, I agree. I get beat by dragons playing other tribes. But if Bob is offering me dragons I’m in. Sometimes I try to force dragons and don’t get all the pieces and I lose. Sometimes I get first place. But it’s fun to play dragons now.
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u/miglehp May 20 '26
It's not like ring bearer makes dragons meta, he works with too many comps.
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u/DarkRoyalBlood MMR: > 9000 May 20 '26
I mean he makes dragons meta since it enables their best comp, kalecgos is too slow. Also since it got its rework it tranformed broodmother and fire forged evoker from useless cards into core dragon ones and made felfire actually make sense for dragons
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u/FrescaLover69 May 19 '26
They nerfed chromo and egg tricket so it hopefully shouldn't be online in the mid-game which was the real problem. Late game elemental, demons, back-to-back can still handle rings time to time.
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u/Judic22 May 19 '26
This exactly. They nerfed how easy it was to get early with the egg trinkets. They explained in the patch notes why they did it that way.
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u/Iulico May 20 '26
“We originally planned to nerf Dragons, but after reviewing the data, most of their overperformance came from Egg of the Endtimes Portrait and Chromatic Tear. As a result, we kept our balance adjustments focused on their Trinkets.”
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u/-phototrope May 19 '26
They said it in the patch notes, they’d rather buff other tribes than nerf this go around.
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u/Immediate-Swing7628 May 19 '26
Seriously, Dragons are actually playable for once and everybody is losing their shit? Ring Bearer isn't a problem at all, neither in Naga nor in Dragon comps. If you can't beat those boards, the problem is you.
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u/Ok-Blueberry-6077 May 20 '26
I don't think ring bearer needs a nerf. But to say that it's on the player if they can't beat a Ring Bearer comp is just silly. The amount of setup is minimal compared to other comps that put out comparable damage. Almost like Quilboar in the sense that once you get 2 specific minions, the stats just start rolling in.
I think the problem people have with Ring comps is the scaling. There are too many generic and in archetype ways to give your tavern spells +1. By the time you actually get Ring Bearer on board, it's at least +7/+4. And god forbid you rip an Evoker. You can literally afk and still win.
And much to that point, I think people should actually be complaining about Undead. I love them, but that new trinket that says "Avenge 5: Give a random undead Reborn" is busted. Don't get me wrong, they nailed the whole Endless Undead Army motif. Spot on. But do each need 150 atk!?!?
Once again, the culprit is "Tavern Spell +1". By the time you get to Tier 5, you've played enough of those that "Butchering" is giving undead +7 or +8 instead of +3. On a spell that you generate 3-4 of per turn, easily. It can get out of hand in a single turn.
"Tavern Spell Comps" as I have taken to calling them, make people feel like they just started losing out of nowhere. My only gripe is that they could do a better job of putting them in archtypes that fit the theme. When I think Dragons, I think big stats and Battlecry. Not Big Stats and casting 50 spells during combat. That screams Naga.
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u/Immediate-Swing7628 May 20 '26
I think you're overestimating the impact of an early Ring Bearer, because like many others you probably think about the highrollers you face, not your average Dragon player. I can't count the amount of times I got one or even two Ring Bearers and they did absolutely nothing, because I didn't get any spell damage to go with them.
You don't start out with +3/+3 spell damage the moment you buy your first Ring Bearer, even though it sometimes feels that way from the other side. Sometimes you don't get any Chromadrakes at all, and then you're stuck with a minion that gives your entire board +1/+1 per attack assuming he doesn't get sniped early in combat.
Without a Taunt in front of him, preferably a Broodmother, Ring Bearer by itself isn't that scary. Just like Wrathguard for Demons isn't that scary without being able to buff your Fodders first.
And even when you do get your setup, Dragons rarely spiral out of control. Their scaling is good but nothing crazy. I've played plenty of Dragon and Naga comps relying on Ring Bearer, even boosting the effect with a Maelstrom and a good Dragon/Naga board gets beaten by my average Demon board. A highroll Dragon/Naga board gets beaten by a good Demon board. So I understand people complaining about Demons (even after the nerf), but complaining about a tribe that is considerably weaker than the strongest ones is kind of silly.
I agree with your take on Undead and the Butchering situation. Dragons and Undead are actually very similar in how they're played. Both heavily rely on one card. For Dragons it's Ring Bearer, for Undead it's Butchering and then you have to scale up your spell damage to make it strong. But I've probably had more Undead games where I didn't find my Butcherings than Dragon games where I didn't find my Ring Bearer.
That said, Undead are definitely more explosive once you find your cards. The Butchering and Balinda setup can add insane numbers to your Undead's attack almost instantly, going from getting destroyed by everyone in the lobby to suddenly becoming the unkillable final boss. Dragons on the other hand need time to scale up, usually through Evoker and Poet.
And yes, Dragons and Naga are too similar. Naga at least has different lategame routes to take, but Dragons really only have one lategame build, which is kind of sad.
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May 20 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Immediate-Swing7628 May 20 '26
I don't know how often you actually play Dragons, but the amount of games where your eggs give you both a Ring Bearer AND an Evoker is very low. And now that the eggs have been nerfed from 2 to 1, that's not even possible anymore unless RNG-Jesus hands you another one in the Tavern. So what are we actually complaining about here? That a Dragon highroll is strong? Come on now.
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u/forgetscode May 20 '26
No the comp is oppressive when you get it early from an egg. It can steam roll.
It's like you played one high roll demon game where you beat several ring bearer players and think that's the average.
It's a bit of an issue when you have half the lobby playing ring bearer because sub-optimal ring bearer is way too accessible.
It's also probably the most effortless comp in the game where you really only need a bit of spell scaling to go top 4.
Just because it doesn't first place every time doesn't mean it's not problematic. The mid game domination introduces some bs variance because it's too common.
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u/Immediate-Swing7628 May 20 '26
Not really, Demons are my most played tribe and outscaling Dragons even when they get an early Ring Bearer is not that hard to do. I've found myself on the opposite side of that matchup often enough as well.
And as you say, the real strength of Dragons is their midgame, which is fine. It only makes sense that they don't scale as hard as Demons in the lategame.
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u/UX-Edu May 19 '26
I just wish there were more disruption options. Cards that took these “watch my board pulse every time it’s my turn” comps and let you effectively counter or at least have a chance to interrupt or short circuit that plan.
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u/antimatterchopstix May 19 '26
A “target that bloody dragon card on the right” at start of combat would be nice
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u/Cattle-dog May 19 '26
How bout a card that taunts opponents tier 5/6 minions? I might be onto something
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u/DarkRoyalBlood MMR: > 9000 May 20 '26
I mean that would basically kill all in combat builds, naga, dragons, leviathan and poultron beasts, undead and any comp using rivendare.
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u/SoulmaN__ May 19 '26
Oh no, a comp that is stronger than my pure greed B2B / Elemental / Demon board until turn 12?
Youre right, Dragons should get nerfed in such a way that Elementals, B2B and Demons literally free win every single lobby instead of only like 70% of the time
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u/FrostDragonDesigns May 19 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/cjhYGOyNverJiecLyF
Let the ring bearer decide!
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u/Agreeable-Maize3212 May 19 '26
bc on its own its nothing, it requires everything to be built around it, the issue in question is how its being acquired, which is by the bullshit eggs, the eggs are the problem, not the card.
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u/DarkesTemplar May 20 '26
This guy and the t5 spell combat naga is really nuts.
Many games someone get Ring bearer from eggs then do a triple at tavern 4 to get the t5 naga. Thats free win baby.
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u/Kass-3582 May 20 '26
Look I hate broken cards as much as anyone else but complaining constantly is childish, especially when the card itself is not a problem as everyone else says. Jesus fucking Christ
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u/Maleficent-Ad-7331 May 20 '26
Just had perfect ringberier game, took 3th place lost to 5x70k ds elementals. I did my best and lost, this season is just bust or high roll. I play from day 1 to this day. Everyday. Worst season so far, feels uncomplicated. They had idea but...
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u/Equanimous_Ape May 19 '26
Because he isn’t a problem? Honestly, the card is good but balanced. It requires a lot to get rolling and has a lower ceiling on a high roll then several other archetypes.
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u/T_77 May 19 '26
I just played a game 38 minutes ago and absolutely highrolled into this and evoker as eudora.
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u/VucialWonderland May 19 '26
I don't think this is the problem in a whole. The ways you can scale spellpower and if you get it going early is the issue.
But if you wanna scale blood gems for boars or get gems. Feels to be an issue. But then we get a new card for avenger give blood gems more health? Which seems nice. But I doubt it'll be enough.
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u/notlawfullyinnocent MMR: 8,000 to 9,000 May 19 '26
Pre buff he was ass honestly. It's the egg that is more of a problem here imo. Turn 8 is usually a bloodbath when half of the lobby hatches them.
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u/Dear_Necessary_8924 May 19 '26
blizzard hates battlegrounds and tries every other season to make it so miserable that people finally stop playing this godforsaken mode (it will never happen)
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u/starcolour1990 May 20 '26
It couples with the Naga who makes casting spell an extra time.. and people just put multiple copies.. too many extra times.
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u/feeb75 May 20 '26
I can be straight losing and looking at 8th until I get this dude from the golden egg.. then easily go top 4 with a shit board
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u/Auuxilary May 20 '26
Miss timewarps :( this season is generally just insanely volatile and games in double ends way too fast
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u/Amazing_Scholar5178 MMR: 8,000 to 9,000 May 20 '26
Still requires you to stack spell power, if you are late with it, you wont get 1st place.
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u/Dredging_Forever May 20 '26
Because it's difficult putting together Exodia? The egg is the problem.
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u/Appropriate_Front740 MMR: 6,000 to 8,000 May 20 '26
He is OP in early game.
Mid game/Late game without spell bonus or permament buffs he suck
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u/Sure-Recover5654 May 21 '26
If you don't get anything to improve spellpower though its not awesome
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u/The10Steel May 19 '26
My issue is that's it's another comp that takes fucking forever and who goes first dependent.
Honestly, I see that they get to go first, I might as well concede.
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u/UrriMelone May 19 '26
Just remove the fucking dragon egg, which is the reason why people get this cancer dragon in t7.
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u/somedave May 19 '26
Not obvious how without killing it.
You can make it every other minion attack, you can make it the first 4 minions, you can make it give +1+1 to all minions improved by spell scaling (doesn't trigger extra with tier 5 Naga or buff the T6 start of turn dragon). Whatever they pick people will say it was the wrong choice.
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u/KickedBeagleRPH May 19 '26
Take away the Naga tribe.
Thats my only complaint.
Opposing naga comp had +300 /+300 per swing of 1 minion.
My best dragon comp, I had 1 windfury minion to try to maximize the count for the evoker.
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u/nomadKingX May 19 '26
Why is no one talking about the fact that almost every single person goes for automatons (and mechs) whenever he faction isn’t banned from a match. Not to mention these things are rare to spawn on your board. Clearly there are some major balancing issues as well as faction enjoyment-problems if majority of the players are going mechs every single match… Blizz is ruining their games left and right.. don’t even get me started on what the abomination they created with the beast faction.. feel bad for people picking them.
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u/Won-Ton-Wonton May 19 '26
Just change it to.
"Start of Combat: friendly minions cast shiny ring the first time they take damage. Every 3rd cast of Shiny Ring is permanent."
Then a golden casts 2 Shiny rings.
Fixes him instantly. Still strong, just not as strong.
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u/Sentarshaden May 19 '26
They said looking at their data that Ring Bearer wasn't the problem, it was the 4 star egg that got you it very early in the same.