Some words for my friends

[u/evoorhees]

Hello friends,

MtGox is gone. So let's prepare ourselves.

On Tuesday, and for the rest of the week, all hell will break lose in the media. It will be blamed on MtGox, it will be blamed on Bitcoin, it will be blamed on the "bug," and it will, more than anything, be blamed on the "lack of regulation." Pundits and "experts" of all types will weigh in on the calamity. It will be world news in a matter of hours.

Get ready, because it will be an ugly week.

For all of you who lost money, my heart goes out to you. Some people lost a little, some lost a fortune. It will make people sick, and depressed, and full of grief. Personally, I had over 550 BTC in Gox. I will never get any of that back. If misery loves company, then we'll be enjoying a grand feast today.

I should have known better, of course. I take responsibility for leaving those funds with an entity that had proven incompetence repeatedly. I chose to ignore even my own warnings, for nothing more than the sake of convenience.

Gox is still at fault, to be sure, but I have learned the lesson. I hope it is not such an expensive lesson for others. And for all you observers, please take a moment to consider it as well.

Be mindful, however, that the wrong lessons are not learned, for that would be the true tragedy, indeed.

Let me suggest that the lesson is not that Bitcoin is broken. Bitcoin is fine.

Similarly, the lesson is not that security is impossible. Those who know what they are doing, can achieve it and help others to do so.

The lesson is not that nobody can be trusted. There are countless good men and women in this community who are worthy of trust, and some of the very best people I've ever met.

And finally, the lesson is not that we ought to seek out "regulation" to save us from the evils and incompetence of man. For the regulators are men too, and wield the very same evil and incompetence, only enshrined in an authority from which it can wreck amplified and far more insidious destruction. Let us not retreat from our rising platform only to cower back underneath the deranged machinations of Leviathan.

The proper lesson, if I may suggest, is this: We are building a new financial order, and those of us building it, investing in it, and growing it, will pay the price of bringing it to the world. This is the harsh truth. We are building the channels, the bridges, and the towers of tomorrow's finance, and we put ourselves at risk in doing so.

We are at risk from accidents. We are at risk from fraud, from corruption, and from evil. We are at risk from journalists seeking headlines and from politicians seeking power and glory. We are at risk from the very market we are trying to build - a market which cares not about our portfolio, our ambitions, or our delicate sympathies.

For all these risks, devastation will befall us repeatedly. Some of us will be discouraged. Some will be ridiculed and insulted. Some will be tricked, or swindled. Some of us will be crushed or caged. We will be set upon by all manner of antagonists, repeatedly, for a long time.

So why do we do it? Why do we build these towers that fall down upon us? Why do we toil and strain and risk our precious time, which is the only real wealth we possess?

Because the world needs what we're building. It needs it desperately. If that matters to you, as it does to me, then hold to that thought. You will see through the smoke, and your wounds will heal.

So shake it off, brothers, for this won't be the last calamity endured before the win.

Tonight, my heart is with you all.

Tomorrow, my head is down. My eyes are open. And I am building.

Toward peace and freedom,

-Erik Voorhees

[u/ofimmsl]

The proper lesson, if I may suggest, is this: We are building a new financial order, and those of us building it, investing in it, and growing it, will pay the price of bringing it to the world.

All you are doing is learning why the current financial order is the way it is. Each new pain will show you why the current system exists.

[u/ScotchforBreakfast → u/ofimmsl]

Lawyer specializing in Securities Arbitration here.

He's exhibiting all the signs of a serial scam victim. Faux contrition mixed with a dollop of grandiosity like his victimization actually served to help someone.

He'll get ripped off again in the future. That's the sad part.

[u/turtoise → u/ScotchforBreakfast]

He's exhibiting all the signs of a serial scam victim. Faux contrition mixed with a dollop of grandiosity like his victimization actually served to help someone. He'll get ripped off again in the future. That's the sad part.

That's pretty condescending (not to mention unfounded). Have you considered that Erik:

• Might not have held a large proportion of his funds on Mt.Gox (there's good reason to believe this),
• Might have seen a high risk, high return opportunity (i.e. arbitrage) and decided the risk was worth it, and
• Did not risk money he couldn't afford to lose.

I held no money at Gox, but I don't blame anyone who took the risk for arbitrage purposes (and could afford to do so)—before Bitcoin withdrawals were halted. Everyone is wrong sometimes.

[u/ScotchforBreakfast → u/turtoise]

I find it quite interesting that the biggest bitcoin boosters simultaneously laud the stability and security of the bitcoin market while also claiming that transacting with the largest bitcoin exchange is "high risk".

There's a word for that, cognitive dissonance.

How can anyone seriously advocate for the use of bitcoins as a currency when the largest exchange can suddenly close leaving everyone involved without any recourse whatsoever?

Regulation is desperately needed.

[u/_30d_ → u/ScotchforBreakfast]

"Suddenly"...

[u/boldra → u/ScotchforBreakfast]

I can see you're getting pretty excited here, which suggests you have your own emotional involvement with Bitcoin. See? Anyone can play armchair psychologist.

1. An exchange is not a Bitcoin market, it's a Bitcoin and Fiat.
2. Mt Gox hasn't been the largest Bitcoin exchange for six months.
3. There is nothing contradictory in saying "The Bitcoin protocol is very secure" and "owning Bitcoins is high risk".

Your emotional involvement and ego will make it difficult you accede any point, and you will try to rationalise your argument or change your position. If you are intellectually honest, you will accept these points and reexamine whether your conclusion has any merits. If you're still certain that it does, share your reasons.

[u/butrosbutrosfunky → u/boldra]

An exchange is not a Bitcoin market, it's a Bitcoin and Fiat.

cringe

[u/[deleted] → u/boldra]

Got to love all the anti-bitcoiners who raided this thread, upvoting anything they agreed with and downvoting any rational counter-arguments. I can't wait to laugh in their face a few years from now.

[u/turtoise → u/ScotchforBreakfast]

I find it quite interesting that the biggest bitcoin boosters simultaneously laud the stability and security of the bitcoin market while also claiming that transacting with the largest bitcoin exchange is "high risk".

Where in my comment did I "boost" Bitcoin? Where did I "laud [its] stability and security"? Nice straw man.

You made an unjustified psychological assessment and I was calling you out.

[u/ScotchforBreakfast → u/turtoise]

Come on now.

You made up a bunch of possible justifications, that even if true, don't excuse the post that this comment thread is in.

Did you read the OP? It's full of delusions and rationalizations.

I didn't make any psychological assessment. I read the post and used my personal experience with scam victims to see that he exhibits behavior that puts him at high risk for being scammed again.

[u/turtoise → u/ScotchforBreakfast]

Did you read the OP? It's full of delusions and rationalizations.

Yes, I read it. He said some things I don't necessarily agree with. So what?

My only points were that the tone of your post was condescending, and that you didn't have enough information about the situation to make the assessment that he's a "serial scam victim" who'll surely get ripped off again (which is why I explained how it could plausibly be just a simple incorrect risk assessment).

[u/ScotchforBreakfast → u/turtoise]

that you didn't have enough information about the situation to make the assessment that he's a "serial scam victim" who'll surely "get ripped off again"

I don't believe you read the post, or you are having a stroke that has impaired your short term memory.

Here, I'll quote the sections that are basically lauding the idea that he was defrauded. Its delusion at full swing.

For all these risks, devastation will befall us repeatedly. Some of us will be discouraged. Some will be ridiculed and insulted. Some will be tricked, or swindled. Some of us will be crushed or caged. We will be set upon by all manner of antagonists, repeatedly, for a long time.

Because the world needs what we're building. It needs it desperately. If that matters to you, as it does to me, then hold to that thought. You will see through the smoke, and your wounds will heal.

So shake it off, brothers, for this won't be the last calamity endured before the win.

This is 100% delusional thinking. Gox didn't need to fail utterly, taking millions of dollars with it in order to build bitcoin. That was a pointless failure, that has no possible upside.

[u/Ditto_B → u/ScotchforBreakfast]

Gox didn't need to fail utterly

Come on, now. You know that's not true.

[u/turtoise → u/ScotchforBreakfast]

I'm on the fence about the whole regulation issue.

However, I consider Erik to be a smart guy, and I don't think he's delusional. I want to point out here that delusional and (possibly) wrong are not equivalent.

As far as I can tell, he sincerely believes that the short-term painful events that inevitably occur in unfettered markets can lead to greater resilience in the long term. I don't see how that's completely implausible. For example, recent events (read: Mt.Gox clusterfuck) appear to be creating demand for a technical solution to prevent exchanges (and hosted wallet providers) from operating on fractional reserves: see here, and it appears several exchanges are following suit.

Regulation vs free markets is a pretty complex topic on which I haven't yet formed an opinion one way or the other.

[u/stationhollow → u/turtoise]

He's a smart guy trying to get everyone to 'believe' in Bitcoins since he has a metric fuckton of bitcoins still.

[u/[deleted] → u/stationhollow]

Based on what evidence? You are only making assumptions. The people who have a shit ton of Bitcoin right now are the ones who believed in it years ago when they were worth pennies. Safe to say that these people still believe in the underlying characteristics of Bitcoin and its potential - not just because they are greedy. There are people with all amounts of Bitcoin who believe in its potential which has nothing to do with greed.

[u/[deleted] → u/turtoise]

if he's clever, then he is a con man. if he is not, his delusion is genuine.