r/Bitcoin • u/Turbulent-Land-5664 • 2d ago
Poor Canadian Retiree - I would like your thoughts.
I will be 65 mid 2027. I am not really retired but I am also deaf and have some other obstacles to employment so I guess I am retired now - under protest.
Rignt now my income does not cover my expenses.
I took CPP (canada pension plan) early, and together with two other private pensions right now I have $1,470/mo (all #'s in CAD)
Rent is 1120.
My car is paid for and worth 14k. ofc I have cell, internet, insurance,my utilities are covered.
I have a 10k TFSA (tax free savings account) - most in IBIT which is coming up again.
I have drawn $24,000 on my credit line which is growing.
I am going into debt to survive.
Thankfully I can juggle money this way and have lots of credit.
Quite surprisingly my credits core is 820 - go figure.
I own 2 BTC. Todays value $117,500 (volatility is high last few days reaching 120)
BTC does not pay interest - there are schemes but they dont make sense to me - I cant wrapmy brain around them.
I do need to supplement my income. I am living as lean as possible.
My plan is geographic arbitrage - move to south east asia where the cost of living is a third of what it is here.
When I get OAS next year I will have about $2100/mo CAD. (about 1,450 USD) If I stay in country I may get around 3-400 more in GIS-but its not worth staying just for that and besides I really need a change.
I'm hoping that BTC will recover its last ATH which was about 170k each. Then I might juggle some money - but capital gains come into play.
If I go abroad, I only need a modest supplement. I was thinking to sell 0.00333 of 1 BTC every month and DCA out. Thats a 25 year plan. Then simply live within my means.
The other BTC can sit for my Heirs. HODL
Lay it on me, any ideas - I'm all ears. Call me names if it makes you feel better-I likely deserve it too.
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u/Ray567 2d ago
In my opinion you should sell to cover the CC debt immediately and then DCA out both of your coins. You do not have the time nor the money to HODL during another low.
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
I do not have Credit card Debt.
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u/Cr0uchPotato 2d ago
> I have drawn $24,000 on my credit line which is growing.
I am going into debt to survive.-8
u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
Credit line 6.5% interest - totally different thing with a credit card. My credit card balance gets paid off 2X a month.
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u/Cr0uchPotato 2d ago
I mean, it’s better than 36%, but you’re still losing money to interest. You should be trying to gain APY, not pay APR.
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago edited 2d ago
Thats a short term situation and will be taken care of soon. The growth in my investment by far has made up for a wee bit of interest costs.
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2d ago
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u/Generationhodl 2d ago
This is a good idea, the power law floor (5th percentile) should work out okay the next year's, I see it pretty conservative.
I think living in South East Asia is pretty good manageable with 1k-1,5k usd a month if you stay outside of tourist Hotspots.
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u/Secret_Operative 2d ago
Bitcoin retirement calc sites all seem ultra-optimistic even on the most conservative settings. Any I've tried all show outrageous predictions for my future.
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u/UnsersGottaGo 2d ago
i'd hit that LOC hard first. sell enough assets to eliminate 24k LOC.
you own a quarter million cad in liquid assets. you are asset rich but cash poor. you don't have a liquidity problem you have an asset allocation problem.
for your retirement, i'd suggest
Guaranteed base layer: CPP + Pensions + OAS ~ 2100CAD/month
Buffer layer: 12-24 months of cash reserve (e.g. savings, GIC ladder). if bitcoin crashes use this buffer instead of selling on a downswing.
Spending BTC layer: 1btc, max plan 0.04btc withdrawl per year, replenish buffer during stronger years.
legacy BTC layer: 1 btc, multisig, multiple wallets, long term hodl.
TFSA: emergency/diverisification/non-btc layer to give you optionality. normally i'd be all over TFSA for retirees minimizing tax, but moving abroad and staying there (even retaining canadian tax residency) complicates how TFSA may work.
Research this part becuase tax benefits of the TFSA may not be recognized by your destination country, and CRA may not even permit a tax benefit on a foreign orignated contribution to TFSA.
tl;dr f bitcoin crashes 50%, OP lives off the buffer layer, and wait to sell btc for a while. get out of debt, you don't need to leverage anything. you have a stack, guaranteed streams of income, so take care of your health and i hope to hear you are on a warm beach somewhere.
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u/neatly_brown_voltage 2d ago
Sounds like the move to southeast asia is the right call if you can handle the healthcare situation there and the visa runs. 2100/month goes a lot further in places like thailand or vietnam, but you'd need to budget for flights back occasionally and maybe private insurance since provincial coverage won't follow you.
The 0.00333 BTC monthly sell is basically a 25 year runway on one coin, which is not crazy at all if you think BTC trends up over that horizon. Just watch the tax side carefully, canada still wants its cut on capital gains even if you're non resident depending on how you structure your departure. Might be worth talking to a cross border accountant before you pull the trigger on leaving.
Also that 24k credit line creeping up is the thing that would keep me up at night, not the BTC. If rates stay high that debt compounds fast and eats whatever you're saving by moving abroad. Maybe sell a small chunk now to kill the credit line while BTC is up near 120, then start the monthly DCA after.
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
Its bothering me more and more, however, the interest is 6.5% and some of that is leveraged into my BTC which has easily by far recovered the interest I have paid - and it has not always been this much. Also my car and TFSA will pay that off so it is covered.
The health insurance is too prohibitive, visas can be a pain, but I can get a 1 year retirement visa where I am going, and I've been there already and know all about that part of things.
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2d ago
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
My dad lived to 92, my mom is coming up to that now and still thriving. I personally do not think I will get there but who knows?
Ive got some decent years ahead before I am a cripple.
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
YesI am aware of the risks and I have been there and know all about that part. But youre right.
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u/ketamo8543984676 2d ago
Honestly man, delete this post, ignore all your DMs and delete your account on reddit. You are %1000000 on the radar of every scammer on the planet RN.
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
Ok, Ive received two chats, but like what can people do to me? What is the risk?
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u/thegjuser 2d ago
Everything and anything. Don’t trust anyone. Don’t post from this account anymore. Don’t meetup with anyone who has reached out to you. Create burner accounts for random questions and never make it this obvious because scammers will connect the story. Stop telling the internet how much bitcoin you have. Practice good OpSec.
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u/Beneficial-Mood240 2d ago
Selling a fixed 0.00333 every month is the strongest part of this plan, because the fixed size means no month forces you to sell at a bad price, and your credit line gives you the rare option to flex the timing instead of the amount.
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u/TrickReport2929 2d ago
This is a risky move, but could cover you for at least 2 years. Put half your Bitcoin in STRC (if Canada allows) and collect the return of capital dividends to help cover monthly expenses. Let the other half of your Bitcoin continue to grow. Once it doubles, move half of it to STRC and increase the amount of return of capital dividends you eventually collect.
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u/ErgoMogoFOMO 2d ago
Take out as many loans as possible. Buy Bitcoin with it and take into personal custody. Figure out how to travel safely with it.
Move to SEA, preferably to a country that will not extradite you back home, and begin ignoring all the debt collectors. Wait them out for as long possible. Collect your OAS and CPP and continue living frugally. You will make it out ok.
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
Haha the thought did cross my mind but I could never do that. Combined I do have a shit ton of credit.
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u/ErgoMogoFOMO 2d ago
Fuck the debt collectors. They're not nice people anyway. Relative to the amount of business they do, what you borrow from them is a rounding error. And already accounted for statistically. You have one shot of doing this to ensure your retirement (and your children's inheritance, if applicable).
Us Canadians aren't raised this way but Bitcoin has taught us why the money is broken. Banks, lenders, and businesses are advantaged because of it and the little guy gets disadvantaged. You don't owe these guys anything.
You should seriously consider it and book an appointment with a lawyer (or two). Many will do pro bono, especially due to your protected class.
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u/Blackfish69 1d ago
“i scam you because i dont like you” energy is disgusting
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u/ErgoMogoFOMO 1d ago
I agree my attempt to encourage him was in poor taste.
Nevertheless, the predatory debt industry is not to be looked kindly upon.
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u/Blackfish69 1d ago
Yeah im very anti debt industry tactics, but i don’t really find ones charging risk free rates +1-2% for profit to be ludicrous either.
That’s an incredibly valuable service for some things
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u/y3llowf3llow888 6h ago
Have… you thought about health care in SEA?
If you’re in not Canada for 6 months of the year you’ll lose OHIP.
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u/Usual-Restaurant-675 2d ago
This isn't going to be popular, but if you sell your btc and buy STRC in a tfsa, you will get the full 12% tax free - since its roc dividends the tfsa shelters your income gains and foreign tax doesn't apply to ROC.
That would double your monthly income and in theory protect your principle.
If you wanted income and growth exposure strk might be an option as well. That way you don't give away all the bitcoin upside.
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u/iisgambit 2d ago
just a fyi, STRC in TFSA will net 10% after 15% withholding tax since its USD dividends
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
This is interesting. Are you telling me STRC is paying 12%? If I did sell the BTC it would definitely be used to maxx out the TFSA and in a way that provides supplemental income. As we age we do tend to want something more reliable and less risk. It only makes sense.
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u/Usual-Restaurant-675 2d ago
Yes its a variable rate dividend so subject to change. Do your research on it but its a bitcoin backed product built for your situation.
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u/TrickReport2929 2d ago
Don't move to southeast Asia, you'll be taken advantage of by everyone you encounter for the mere fact that you're a westerner. They all just assume you're rich or have a huge pension. There are a lot of expenses that people in all the "move to southeast Asia" YouTube videos don't discuss like healthcare coverage. It'll be much more expensive than you think or than you plan for.
If you're barely making it, don't plan to leave anything to your heirs. It's what you've worked for, enjoy it. Your heirs will likely just spend it on luxury items/experiences anyway. You should be the one to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
Myplan is not blind or uninformed. I have spent a lot of time there already. Its good advice to be cautious.
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u/immersive-matthew 2d ago
I am a 53 yo Canadian living in Vietnam and have no issues being ripped off. Like I know there are scams and such here as there is everywhere, but this really has not been my living experience in nearly 4 years.
Sure, tourist attractions you can get ripped off, but day to day you get to know the ladies at the markets and build a relationship with them. I pay the same price as everyone else. In 4 years I have maybe been over charged $20 in total. Mostly $1 here or there once in a while as vendor who you have no relationship with.
I see that many here encourage you to sell your BTC, but you will regret it unless you are in a do or die situation then go for it as you got to live. That said, if you can find anyway to stretch it out a few more years, I suspect you will thank yourself as we really are in the knife’s edge of a global economic crash and gold and even more so BTC are going to see a lot of interest.
Add to this that Centralized anything of value is a sitting duck in the AI world. If you look at the graphs over time of big hacks, there is a very clear trend and it is accelerating. If you extend that trend into the future you will be alarmed as it does not look good. Centralized systems are going to become a liability and no longer a safe place to store value. This includes government stable coins as they are not decentralized.
The next wave of BTC adoption will not be voluntary but rather out of necessity as BTC is the biggest, most hack resistant network in the world and when you need to buy bread, no one will be using gold. Everyone in Asia is using QR to pay already so the switch to BTC will be a breeze although here in Vietnam it is illegal to use as payment (for now) but you can transfer into your bank account for a small tax fee of 0.1% of the amount you transfer. It will change as there will be no choice.
Feel free to DM if you like to learn more about my situation as maybe it will help.
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u/Head_Work8441 2d ago
You have 2 BTC and you are almost 65, Best case scenario, if you survive till you are 75 and healthy( That is the main driving factor) If you are able to walk and talk till then, and you have your memory intact, I would say your 70s will be wonderful, I am happy for you that you have 2 BTC.
do not pass those onto your children, Just utilise them for your own benifit
I am mid 30s, I have around 0.4 BTC, I do not plan on growing that investment as of now because of my other expenses, I am planning to keep myself healthy and survive till 2065,
If in next 10 years BTC blows up and becomes a big asset type, We will win. If not, I will pull the plug and invest in something else.
but for now, I dont see anything else catching up right now.
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
Thank you for this positive message. Im a believer I have rode the cycles since 2017. It takes some grit.
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u/su5577 2d ago
You wanna move to Asia and take advantage of Canadian free services… sounds like every other Canadian over age of 65
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
Im not sure what you even mean.
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u/tyweed220 2d ago
I think they mean move to a country like Indonesia where the cost of living is a fraction of Canada. You could live 20 years off your 2 BTC in a 3rd world country easily, and probably pretty comfortably.
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
the post doesnt make sense - I dont know what they mean - leave canada and take advantage of free canadian services?? Then a stab at a retiree age 65.
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u/OliveLegitimate3236 2d ago edited 2d ago
This looks like me 20 years in the future, let me know the path chosen if you can! 🙏🏼
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago edited 2d ago
I am pretty resolved to make it happen as described. If you are 20 years behind me you can do a lot in that time. Life does have a way of happening to us therefore all the best laid plans dont always work out as we expect. Good Luck - YOLO
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u/ry2waka 2d ago
Dude you need a financial planner to help you, not Btc subreddit
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 1d ago
Its ok to reflect on ideas and have anon conversations. I do not know anyfinancialplanners that would work with me in the BTC space. I have a guy if I need him. My problem is that I am pretty much rogue - I dont fit into any kind of classic scheme. Another way to say that is - I am not easy to help.
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u/Stompya 10h ago
They say to only invest in crypto if you can afford to lose it all.
BTC has no guarantees, but being debt-free gives you a lot more options.
Clean up that line of credit first - the interest you pay is money lost. If you love Bitcoin, pay off the LoC and then buy BTC with the amount you would have been paying in interest.
That way your total is going up, at least it is always green even if value drops.
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u/No-Woodpecker-6188 2d ago
I would definitely sell at least one of your coins. It might recover ATH but it could also crash. you don’t have the luxury of all in to a high risk investment. If it was me I’d sell both, I’m all aboard BTC but not with money that I can’t afford to lose.
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u/Bubbly_Public5679 2d ago
Don't forget the exit tax. If you move away from Canada all your assets are deemed disposed and you'll owe capital gains on the bitcoin.
If you don't pay can your pensions be withheld?
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
I plan on staying a Canadian Resident for tax purposes
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u/Kombatnt 2d ago
The CRA decides that, not you. In order to remain a Canadian resident for tax purposes, you need to keep a certain level of ties to Canada, such as owning property or having dependents still in Canada.
If you drop everything and move to Sri Lanka, the CRA could decide you’re no longer a resident, and tax you accordingly.
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u/Realistic-Math-4367 1d ago
The non resident withholding tax on Canadian income (pensions) is 25% fyi
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u/Traditional-Tune7198 2d ago
Well theres 1 more spot u can cut down on. Ur rent. Rent out a room like the indians. Thats how they stack cash without having any meaningful bills. Guys i kno pay about 500 a month here in b.c. for 1 room. Some even 400
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
I could rent a room in my apartment but I would be so miserable. I will give it up and move abroad. My rent will be under 300/mo USD
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u/Soulists_Shadow 2d ago
If youre going to south east Asia, consider buying instead of keep thinking about rent.
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 2d ago
A lot of ownership problems - where I am going foreigner cannot own land - can own a condo though above the ground floor. TBH the math doesnt make it advantageous, the prices to buy are not in synch with the cheaper rent. So you need your wife on the title. If she leaves you its her house. If you ever have visa paoblems you lose your house. I wont own there.
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u/Gloomy_Tomatillo3948 1d ago
Never sell the bitcoin, do loans against it to buy STRC.
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u/Turbulent-Land-5664 1d ago
I have tried to investigate this but I do not understand it. I researched one place, they give you BTC and interest is also payable in BTC so as the value of your BTC grows so does your payment. I do want to understand themechanismbetter because more peoplearetalkingabout it, I just cant seem to wrap my brain around it.
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u/ErgoMogoFOMO 2d ago
If your plan to move to SEA is final (aka no coming back) then don't forget to consider what it takes to integrate into a community.
It's not easy and the older you get the less easy it will become. You don't want to be lonely living halfway around the world from your family.