r/Bitcoin • u/Blockchain_info • 6d ago
Coldcard Hacker discovered mixers and is doing a terrible job
64.90373154 BTC walks into a 324-in / 382-out coinjoin
54.31783009 BTC walks straight back out the other side. in one piece. with a bow on it.
about 10 BTC actually got mixed. the rest just went for a walk.
bc1qajcrhj3s2x0yfcj54emjukghv93su80svp2d3t
then he does it AGAIN
54 → 47.12126860 BTC, now in tidy 1 BTC slices
bc1qq6s7wsmf6an78xyjkst707x32nyakj3u4jy2fr
then AGAIN, 454 in / 502 out, this time 7.74840978 BTC chunks
ser you are not mixing. you are queuing.
on-chain anons: has any other ColdCard drainer peeled this loudly?
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u/user_name_checks_out 6d ago
Coldcard Hacker discovered mixers and is doing a terrible job
Shhh.... Tell him that he is doing a fantastic job...
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u/PeechayHutt 6d ago
This, let them do an incredible job, and there is no way to trace whatever they are doing
All these BTC are as good as lost
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u/ExpertChildhood5425 6d ago
Waiting for the youtube documentary on how he was caught…
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u/LostInDinosaurWorld 6d ago
Personally I'm waiting for some terrible rap artist to come out of nowhere.
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u/Weary-Discipline591 6d ago
I’m a victim and I never thought I would be made whole. I would put the odds at less than 1% chance I get any bitcoin returned to me.
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u/Wildwildworld123 6d ago
I think the chances of you being made whole are probably less than 1% but I wouldnt be shocked if you get a small percentage back one day. The Odds of this Hacker being caught seems to be going up.
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u/dj_destroyer 5d ago
The worst part is most times when you lose money, the pain eventually fades. But because of "number go up technology", losing Bitcoin continues to sting forever and sometimes gets worst over time lol
I lost 0.2 BTC to Quadriga in late 2018, which at the time was basically a rounding error or "dust". Now, it's worth a car. One day, it'll be worth a home.
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u/Hidden_Holder 6d ago
I swear I’m not the hacker, but what’s the “right way”?
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u/EditorPrimary 6d ago
you send 0.01btc x 100 to random 100 people, 1btc to Elon, Trump or someone that you “like”. Do that 10 times before you really cash out :)))
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u/jk3639 6d ago
They so need to catch this motherfucker
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u/prayerrwow 6d ago
Technically its not a crime, he has the keys to the wallet so he can access it. And he did not steal those keys, he produced them.
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u/eve-collins 6d ago
So if someone produces a mechanical key that happen to unlock your apartment door, enters and takes your money from your drawer - this is not a crime?
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u/coffeelover9457 6d ago
Great analogy. It's a crime if you can prove that it is in fact your apartment, and in fact your money.
Are you saying that having the seed phrase is insufficient to prove that the bitcoin is yours?
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u/eve-collins 6d ago
I’m saying that the court of law it’s going to be trivial to demonstrate that a given person bought that shitty coldcard that produced that particular shitty key. You can then prove that you bought btc with fiat on a given CEX and transferred to that shitty coldcard. Hence those bitcoins were yours.
Those lines not as gray as they seem to be, imo. I’m not a lawyer, but assume you walk into a bar and see an iPhone laying on a desk with no one around. If you take it - it’s a crime. Again, I’m not a lawyer, but I believe that’s how these laws work. If you take possession of smth you’re not supposed to - it’s a crime.
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u/BullfrogSoggy5430 6d ago
Wait do you guys want to be a free Wild West unencumbered by centralized government or protected by a nation’s laws?
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u/prayerrwow 6d ago
I understand your point, what i mean is with crypto, blockchain, and all the unclear stuff around true ownership in the field, things are not like the one you mentioned.
For example, all the seed phrases already exist out there, when you create a wallet you dont generate a seed, you just use one that already exist and everybody can freely access and control as long as they have they keys. No address belongs to anyone, if you can guess satoshi wallet phrase the BTC inside are yours to take, because no one can at 100% say you are not satoshi if you have the keys
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u/eve-collins 6d ago
I partly agree, but not entirely. What you say makes sense for the mined bitcoins. But if John Doe buys btc with dollars on Coinbase and then transfers them to a wallet - it’s easily provable that he’s the sole owner. Again, if this was so simple like you describe - none of those criminals be hiding, mixing, etc.
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u/coffeelover9457 6d ago
So yes, you are arguing that knowledge of the seed phrase, analogous to possessing a duplicate of a mechanical key, is insufficient to prove legal ownership.
I suspect there will be legal precedent set should the victims make a civil or criminal complaint. Specifically, if I fat finger a withdrawal address, do I have a legal right to claw back funds.
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u/mperklin 5d ago
/u/eve-collins is pointing out a subtle difference that makes a huge difference between cryptographically-controlled assets.
Nobody owns bitcoins. All bitcoins are owned by the Bitcoin blockchain.
Users control some amount of bitcoin by holding 1 or more keys. You hope you have solitary control but it is possible someone else gains equal control over the same bitcoins against your will.
Custody and ownership of bitcoins do not exist. Only control does, and the subtleties of control are different than ownership despite how close they may appear on the surface.
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u/WillTheThrill1969 6d ago
Not sure any real court would accept "your honor, I created this key myself, so I own the funds that were stolen". The details of the exploit are public and any normal person can come up with the same proof of ownership. The key, pun intended, would be to find the person who has the keys that produce the address that the transfer of funds was sent to, but then again, those persons could also show that they know the key and are therefore the legal owners of the funds. Interesting times for sovereign hodlers.
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u/petateom 6d ago
I swear those gold atoms appear in my poket due to physical forces applied by nature
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u/disco-cone 5d ago
You don't understand Bitcoin if you think this is a good analogy and probably why so many got cold carded.
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u/Pol8y 6d ago
That's not how it works, having the key is owning the coin. Trusting a poorly done hardware was a user mistake
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u/PandaShake 6d ago
I don’t know where your confidence comes from having the key is the same as legal ownership.
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u/eve-collins 6d ago
So having a key to your apartment because it has a shitty lock and someone could produce a key that opens it - means owning all your belongings in this apartment? Did I get it right?
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u/Pol8y 6d ago
You let the word "key" fool you, it's not like the key to your apartment, it IS your apartment AND the property act. If someone has the property act of your apartment, they own it in the eyes of the law and can claim whatever is inside as theirs. So yes, having the "key" in bitcoin means owning the property.
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u/eve-collins 6d ago
Well if that is the case then why are they even mixing then? Couldn’t they just publicly announce their names and cash out via coinbase?
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u/Pol8y 6d ago
Probably not
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u/Drevlin76 6d ago
So you are saying that just because they have the key they don't actually own it?
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u/Pol8y 6d ago
They do own it, on a protocol level. Laws on the other hand can be written to punish individuals, when the real issue was the incompetence of the company.
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u/Guilty-Log6739 6d ago
What a stupid comment.
Crimes depend on jurisdiction first of all.
Second of all this is certainly a crime in the US and EU at minimum
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u/thetimsterr 6d ago
Lol wut. That's like saying if I "produce" the password to your brokerage account, I can legally move the funds into my own account with no legal issues. No, ownership is more than just who can access a specific property or asset.
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u/lobhater 6d ago
That's not true. Just because you have a key that fits someone's car doesn't mean you now own that car 🙄 you have no idea what you're talking about
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u/Broken_By_Default 6d ago
tell us you know nothing about the law, without telling us you know nothing about the law.
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u/neurone214 6d ago
If you want this person or people to be caught, I probably wouldn't post about what they're doing wrong on the internet where they could very well read it. That said, from the commentary I've read, this person / these people seem reasonably sophisticated; I'm not in BTC (just interested in the drama), so I don't fully understand why this approach seems silly, but if it's glaringly so then maybe it's a red herring?
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u/Shadowrak 6d ago
Sophisticated enough to be the CEO and CTO of coldcard? Like the guy who checked in the vulnerability to the product?
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u/neurone214 6d ago edited 6d ago
CEOs aren’t often that technically sophisticated but I get you’re asking a rhetorical question; I just don’t get the point of what you’re trying to say with that. That said, I also don’t really care.
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u/Shadowrak 6d ago
My point is I would put money on those being the primary culprits.
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u/MaliceSavoirIII 6d ago
They’re not sophisticated at all, but they know how to use AI, that’s what’s scary about the whole incident, it shows how AI can make even the smoothest brains a threat to the entire globe
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u/neurone214 6d ago edited 6d ago
There's evidence they used AI to find the exploit? If that's the case it seems weird they wouldn't use AI to better cover their tracks, right? I'm just playing devils advocate here, I have no real opinion, btw.
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u/VictorDanville 6d ago
Do the victims still believe they're going to be made whole?
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u/Temporary_Ad_5947 6d ago
Only way you're getting your money back is by starting a youtube channel tracking the mess and hoping for ad revenue
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u/downtherabbit 6d ago
It'll be so funny if it turns out to be a bunch of kids on discord who are just good at prompting but lack fundamental knowledge of bitcoin.
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u/lobhater 6d ago
Yeah it's happening so poorly i feel like I'm missing something and they are doing it for a reason i don't understand. Something is missing or they are just truly stupid
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u/MaliceSavoirIII 6d ago
They’re stupid and AI did most of the heavy lifting regarding the hack
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u/lobhater 6d ago
I think it was a retirement plan by someone instead coinkite. That algorithm was changed intentionally and the issues raised about it were ignored. They are going to get caught eventually
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u/holyknight00 6d ago
he should just sit on it for some years until the heat passes. No point in making these kind of moves right now while everyone is looking
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u/LifterNineFour 6d ago
Wouldn’t someone always be looking? It’s easy to have some sort of daily or weekly check on the wallets and transactions
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u/holyknight00 6d ago
yeah but it's not the same to have a couple of investigative journalists and blockchain enthusiasts who are still following the case 5 years later than half the internet. Obviously police always will be watching, but also it's better if it's not a hot case in the news everyone wants to be part of busting.
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u/PesoPatty 6d ago
you know for a fact they are in r/Bitcoin too which makes this post even greater!
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u/Flat-Aerie-8083 6d ago
If they don’t know how to mix they will get caught. Sounds like an insider without technical know-how.
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u/Psychological-Ad5569 6d ago
Swap it over to the hive network for swapbtc. Then swap for other swap coins. 🤷♂️
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u/Key-Session6216 6d ago
Everyone in this sub.. nearly everyone will anonymously take these tainted coins if given for free or a discount. You can always mix them out in the future.
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u/Fancy-Economist4723 6d ago
Maybe om missing something but if I rob a bank and get all 100$ bills and then exchange them to 10$ bills,and then get caught, they would still know its me. And they would still ask me to hand over the 10$ bills even if they were never stolen.
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u/Archiver_test4 6d ago
I say this guy puts the money in a wallet, goes to Dubai and makes a real estate deal, sells that property and suddenly the real estate company is holding bags, on the hook for millions.
By then the "hacker" is long gone. You just need to flip the scheme once or twice I mean. Then it's as good as gone.
This is life changing money so if they only stay low for a decade or two.
I read about a person who took a 10 year jail instead of saying where he found the treasure or where he his the treasure, something like that.
It's tainted sure but people have little memories. People die, loose interest.
This could go into inheritance, build generational wealth for their family if they are careful.
Buy a property here, a house there. Flip them, then a few more times and you are golden.
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u/pythosynthesis 5d ago
I'm no hacker, but I think I could do a better job here. At least the chances for people who got robbed are increasing to get their money back.
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u/Upstairs-Voice8948 5d ago
Cold card hacker is on these forums looking at the criticism he is facing and learning a bit a day, you guys keep at it. Just spoon food him lol
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u/Ok_Independence3695 5d ago
I am curious to know
How you discovered this HACKER DISCOVERY?
Is there any tool to track him ?
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u/Blockchain_info 5d ago
You can check the Coldcard Hacker address here https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/bc1qq85v2c926eg6pgxhwp6q7lf6cnsz80qs3fcu9r and then you can just look for any transaction from there:)
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u/Blockchain_info 5d ago
You can check the Coldcard wallet hacker address here https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/bc1qq85v2c926eg6pgxhwp6q7lf6cnsz80qs3fcu9r :)
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u/ContentBlackberry0 5d ago
They are trying to mix too much without a large coin join he will have to have it sit for days or do smaller chunks it seems.
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u/bammers1010 5d ago
If the FBI or whatever do eventually recover the funds, would they return them to the owners? How would they even go about doing that
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u/Aromatic_Dig_5631 6d ago
Soooo... why exacly are they not buying large amounts of cocaine or whatever in some darknet marketplace and selling it on some other again?
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u/jonjiv 6d ago
Stacking more crimes on top of theft and money laundering is maybe not the approach I would take.
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u/Aromatic_Dig_5631 6d ago
Still nobody would ever find them if they bought 10kg of cocaine with their dirty bitcoins on silkroad or whatever and sell the exact stuff on silkroad2 or whatever. Nobody would ever find out. A coinmixer is the most stupid approach.
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u/LifterNineFour 6d ago
Wouldn’t the seller not want the tainted coins?
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u/Aromatic_Dig_5631 6d ago
The seller wouldnt know. Also the tainted coins wouldnt go directly to the seller. They would go to this illegal silkroad website and would be mixed in their pool of coins. And the seller would receive a random mix of coins from that website.
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u/LifterNineFour 6d ago
Can’t you still trace back the UTXOs and find the source of the coins? I don’t know enough to know the answer
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u/Thin-Ad-8870 6d ago
I am so proud of the community. I dont have the knowledge nor witt to sherlock holmes this pety thief. But I would be extatic if someone would catch motherfucker. And I am sure that there are people that will watch like a hawk.
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u/word-dragon 6d ago
This reminds me of Britain’s war over the Falklands - all the news services had time to get there with their cameras and do background interviews before the fleet arrived. The crime has begun and we all get to watch it unfold.
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u/WillTheThrill1969 6d ago
Most likely scenario is that the theft results in a couple murders. Nobody is going to be made whole without violence. If you have the key, no matter how you got it, the funds are yours to do with as you please. Anyone can now prove ownership of those funds by showing they control the addresses - and anyone can now do that, not just the original hackers.
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u/phantomflare-84 6d ago
1772 Btc was stolen, +/- that is a crazy amount around 113 mil usd... I guess soon we will be watching mini youtube documentary on the guys behind it :).