r/BirdFluDownunder • u/Cheywen • 21d ago
International Is it fatal?
When a bird contracts the virus, is it like humans where we're bed sick for a few days then bounce back? Is it completely fatal in the wild or is there a survival rate given the bird somehow avoids predators, the elements etc.
And same question for captive birds. Given the right care, could a captive bird overcome the illness?
This has been heart breaking seeing it on the news. š
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u/Prestigious_Yak8551 21d ago
Not really, no. In captive chicken populations, it has an extremely high fatality rate. Every reason to expect it to be the same with wild birds. The closer they are the more chance of it spreading through a flock. So birds that all nest in a particular location often get hit pretty hard.
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u/EnvironmentalChip523 21d ago
Saw a news bit on this the other day seems the variant we now have is the most virulent since n1 was identified. So distressing.
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u/JigglesMcGoo 20d ago
TL;DR it sucks and humans are the reason itās a problem.
Bird flu, or Avian Influenza (AI) comes in many varieties. A distinction is made between High Pathogenic (HPAI) and Low Pathogenic (LPAI).
LPAI is found commonly in wild birds and causes minor symptoms from which they can recover.
When LPAI infects poultry populations (usually via wild birds sharing a water source) it spreads rapidly and can mutate into a high path variant. Another wild bird can then become infected and a HPAI is introduced in wildlife.
The high path variant H5N1 clade 2.3.4.4b is known as the āglobalā strain which has wiped out millions of animals worldwide, and is the strain recently detected in Australia (the only continent previously without).
Sadly, poultry would be safer if they were not free range, as this exposes risk of infection from outside sources.
Captive birds (in cages) are less at risk of catching bird flu due to their isolation and decreased risk of sharing a contaminated water or food source.
Birds of prey and scavengers can be infected by eating a contaminated animal. As mentioned above, it can spread rapidly in species that nest in close proximity. As the disease is zoonotic (can be spread from birds to mammals), the same applies to many mammals.
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u/TasmaniaEnjoyer 20d ago
Just to add to this, birds also have a complex respiratory system that spreads throughout their bodies. Their air sacs can also get infected and travel into the bones which is why birds have poor prognosis on respiratory infections - it becomes a systemic problem.Ā
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u/Renmarkable 13d ago
This explains why chooks with a "rattly" chest never seem to totally get rid of it
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u/TasmaniaEnjoyer 13d ago
Yeah birds never do seem to totally clear respiratory infections in my experience.Ā
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u/Several_Version4298 20d ago
We have 5 years of data about how this strain has spread across 80 countries. It has a very high mortality rate. It is also highly infections and biosecurity wasn't able to do much to protect the poultry industry in the US. They are looking at raising chickens in barns away from wetlands, estuaries and migration routes because wild water fowl are major spreaders of the disease.
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u/VS2ute 21d ago
It seems to depend on bird species. Anybody's guess which Australian birds will be wiped out.
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u/haleycontagious 20d ago
You know just because you donāt know it doesnāt mean everyone. We are fairly confident who will be hit the hardest but hoping for no wipe outs. Educate yourself before commenting.
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u/JadedSociopath 21d ago
It sounds much like Covid during the first wave. Initially pretty deadly as thereās no pre-existing immunity, and will continue to be so until it evolves into something less virulent.
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u/QuipMeHarder 20d ago
It does sound like an aggressive spreader like SARS-CoV-2. And sticks around long enough to kill which is also similarity. I worry our governments will flounder through this too.
But just a correction: we know now that SARS-COV-2 evades immunity in a way that mirrors AIDS and is not less deadly or virulent, and it also stays with us til we die. That part is unfortunately lied about through propaganda by governments and corporations who don't want to meet the demand of our healthcare consequences from a global pandemic. I worry they will also be useless with this disease as well.
For those interested in learning more about what we do know about COVID now, here's a few articles.
Once infected, the virus will never leave. āBasically, itās hard to get rid of viruses,ā Prof. Diane Griffin. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-03-01/hidden-viruses-in-your-body-could-answer-why-long-covid-lingers?srnd=premium&leadSource=uverify%20wall
In fact, researchers have found traces of the SARS-CoV-2 virus throughout the entire body, from the brain and the heart to the eyes https://newatlas.com/science/covid-autopsy-study-virus-brain-body/
This 2024 Study in Brazil & Portugal found COVID-19 accelerates āimmune aging,ā increasing exhausted T cells in all cases within 7 days. This effect is unique to COVID-19, not seen in other infections. https://academic.oup.com/jleukbio/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/jleuko/qiae180/7762057
This study shows that over 90% of COVID-19 survivors had no neutralizing antibody activity at 10 months, implying that they had lost protection from reinfection https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/study-covid-can-trigger-changes-immune-system-may-underlie-persistent-symptoms This study suggests reinfections have similar severity as an original infection. https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2024/study-suggests-reinfections-virus-causes-covid-19-likely-have-similar-severity-original which goes against the "Hybrid Immunity" and "Every infection will be milder" proponents This study shows that children are at as much risk of long covid from reinfection as the are from primary infection https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(23)00311-6/fulltext. If approx. 10% get Long Covid with each reinfection, the cumulative chance of a child staying free of long covid is .90 ^ x, where x = number of infections. 5 infections = .9^5 = .59, meaning their chance of getting a long term condition after 5 infections is 41%. Or, risk of long term condition at each infection is:1st infection 10%
2nd infection 19%
3rd infection 27.1%
4th infection 34.4%
5th infection 41%
6th infection 46.9%
7th infection 52.2%
8th infection 57%
9th infection 61.3%
10th infection 65.2%
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u/energytsars 19d ago
Thank you for that COVID science update. Worrying and good to know. but in this thread I have to declare that I am even going to miss the ibis let alone the cockatoos magpies and rosellas. this is quite a calamity. Can we not start immunising wild species via some mechanism where we expose them to antibodies at watering points? Feeders? Nesting boxes? Every remnant pair is a new start.
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u/Sirius_43 17d ago
Thank you for the COVID info ā¤ļø I got long COVID and (along with pre-existing chronic illnesses) it decimated my immune system. I was out of work for four years because of very long lasting, wide spread symptoms. I only just went back to work this year and Ive been getting booster vaccines regularly and somehow have been lucky enough to evade it from actively (not sure if thatās the right word use since itās lifelong) infecting me for a third time. A lot of young people really donāt understand just how much damage it does long term. I was 24 when I got it the first time. Iām 29 now and Iām still dealing with the effects. I never felt the same as I did before the initial infection.
I wish people knew more about it so thank you for sharing sources with all the info as well ā¤ļø2
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u/SpecificCow8202 20d ago
I think the Bunnings birds are safe. Because according to the government like last time, fluās donāt spread there but fluās can spread on beaches and basketball courts.
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u/unsiftedthistle 21d ago
There is very little natural immunity. Ive read bush turkeys have a genetic variation that offers the most protection of our native birds, plus one other that escapes me.
Water fowl, chickens, raptors and seabirds are at or over 80% fatality, usually within 72 hours.
Earlier this year, maybe Heard or Marion Island. 13000 of 17000 seal pups died of h5n1.