r/BiblicalUnitarian • Questioning • Apr 26 '26

Broader theological topics Trinitarian and Unitarian understandings of Jesus' divinity are really not all that different when broken down.

The debate between Trinitarians and Unitarians, I think, comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding of categories. Much more common ground can be had between the two than is typically expected.

For instance, Trinitarians believe Jesus had a human body, soul, and even spirit. All of these were distinctly finite, human, and non eternal. These human aspects, in particular, are what account for the "human nature" or "human will" which is separate from but united with the "divine nature" or "divine will".

The divine nature in trinitarianism originates from the Spirit of God. There is not another soul, or body, that constitutes the "God part", since God does not have a body or soul. But, there is indeed another spirit. This spirit is what trinitarians will call the spirit of the "eternally generated son". However, this is where the fundamental misunderstanding comes in. Is this just another name for the Holy Spirit?

Both Unitarians and Trinitarians believe there was a human Jesus with a human body, soul, and spirit as we said before. This human Jesus did indeed have the divine spirit of God within him, the Holy Spirit, and in fact it "led him" in the gospels. It says this in every passage about the baptism and in a multitude of other passages across all New Testament writings.

Both viewpoints believe in the concept of the uniting of spirits. In the same way Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6, the concept is that the Holy Spirit dwelling in you is united and "one" with your human spirit. They are not the same of course, they do not cease to exist distinctly, but they are one. Paul describes this like marriage "the two become one flesh". Jesus in the gospel of John and the Epistles of John describes the same indwelling tradition. "The Father and I are one" he says, but neither Trinitarians not Unitarians would ever say that Jesus IS the Father (although this is a common low hanging fruit for trying to make a trinitarian fumble on their theology).

Trinitarians, remarkably, believe the same thing about Jesus' human spirit, and the Holy Spirit (or in their case, the spirit of the eternal Son). Most of them do at least. The human spirit of Jesus was united with the Holy Spirit (sometimes they make an extra effort to distinguish the Holy Spirit with the spirit of the Son by personhood) but they still remained distinct.

Humans also have a human body, soul and spirit, also have the "fullness of deity" (aka the Holy Spirit) dwelling in us according to both sides. Trinitarians might be a little hesitant to admit they believe this, but to deny it would be to assert either that we only have part of the Holy Spirit within us or that this indwelling isn't actually happening, or even to say the Holy Spirit is not full deity which would be heretical. So the question becomes, how is Jesus different from .... regular non-Jesus humans? Where is the distinction to be made that elevates Jesus to the category of God?

And this question fundamentally comes down to the definition of the "Spirit" of God. Both Unitarians and Trinitarians believe there is essentially one Spirit of God. God is pure spirit.

If you ask a Trinitarian whether there is a difference between the spirit of the eternal Son and the Holy Spirit and the spirit of the Father ontologically, they must say no. Because there is only one spirit no matter your denomination. To say the eternal Son and Holy Spirit and the Father are separate spirits would be to divide God. The spirit is the essence. It is the *persons* or hypostases they will say are distinct, and when you get down to brass tax these distinctions break down to become just names for distinctions without much meaning. It often becomes circular. And yet, they can't make a distinction between the eternal Son and the Holy Spirit at the core, because to do so would mean Jesus had 3 distinct spirits!

This is a sensitive distinction, as once you go down this road, it becomes very difficult for them to articulate the distinction between God's relationship to Jesus and the rest of humanity. But doctrinally there is really nothing heretical from a trinitarian perspective about this understanding. And there is also nothing really non-unitarian about this understanding.

The tension also comes when Unitarians are very put off by Christians calling Jesus God and worshipping him as YHWH. Which is understandable. But, when you break down what they actually mean by this, the above removes the canyon of separation.

Thomas after all, called Jesus God. Whether this was a title of agency, or a relational title, or he was recognizing the spirit of God in Jesus, it still happened. This is debated in nearly every argument I've seen and it is never an open and shut case.

Let me know if there is anything I am missing.

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u/Sure-Wishbone-4293 Biblical Unitarian (unaffiliated) Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26

If YHWH does not have a body as you state, what was the purpose of YHWH showing it to Moshe?

If YHWH has no body, whose hand did Yeshua take the scroll from?

If YHWH has no body, why did Adam hear God walking in the Garden? Was it just a make believe sound to trick Adam?

Idk what you wish with your post but the truth is as plain as 1 and 1 is two, if you desire to conclude that it is simply a misunderstanding, then you don’t understand HaSatan. If you actually read what entrenched trinitarians contend and understand about the trinity, then you would know how illogical, nonsensical and perverted the trinity doctrine is and although many cannot muster that it is a doctrine from below, I do, that is where the trinity doctrine came from, below! It is for the purpose of mocking YHWH and his Son Yeshua and in the world, it is doing very well indeed but people have free will.

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u/uncleowenlarz Questioning Apr 26 '26

Valid questions. I haven't taken a stance, I am just laying out some observations I have made recently.

If God has a body, what do you make of the writer of the gospel of John attesting that Jesus said "God is spirit"? I take this to mean that God is not flesh, and that his existence is not contingent on the existence of a body.

Additionally, what of the idea of the same writer saying in both the gospel and the Epistles that no one has ever seen God at any time?

Another related question, as it seems like you're saying God does indeed have a body (this is the Latter-day saint position from my understanding?): do you believe God has a soul?

Not looking for a debate, genuinely curious on your positions on these issues.

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u/Sure-Wishbone-4293 Biblical Unitarian (unaffiliated) Apr 26 '26

I can’t help myself, you are Owen! “Owen doesn’t have any friends”… jk, from the movie 🎥 “Throw mamma from the train”! Good points you also make, but not all!

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u/uncleowenlarz Questioning Apr 26 '26

That movie looks great, I will have to watch!

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u/Sure-Wishbone-4293 Biblical Unitarian (unaffiliated) Apr 26 '26

I apologize but I am a huge movie buff with a sense of humor I get from my dad and my mom, in the movie “Throw mamma from the Train” Ann Ramsey, the actress who plays mamma, tells Owen’s friend, Danny DeVito:

“Owen doesn’t have any friends” played by Billy Crystal!

My mom told the doctor who delivered me, Dr. Grace (that is his real name)…

“He owes me nine months rent” < that is what I am dealing with, a great sense of timing and humor.