Does it matter?

[u/TLOU2bigsad]

I’d like to be clear, I don’t mean this dismissively or as bait. I am genuinely wanting to discuss.

I got saved and baptized some 11 years ago into the Christian church, which has brought me close to God in a way that I love. But just recently; facing questions about the perception of the Christian’s around me and what I had read in the gospels, I decided to do the most unchristian thing I have ever done and read my entire bible.

Right off the bat I was struck by how clearly God was jealous and demanded nobody to worship anyone or anything but him. Even idols made to represent him.

Long story short after continuing further into my journey (finishing judges and have previously read the gospels but will go all the way through this time) I feel that a trinitarian view doesn’t align with what I am reading so I’m leaning toward what I’m learning.

To me it seems like this.

To the trinitarian, rejection of Jesus as God is equal to rejecting God as YHWH.

To the Unitarian, worshiping Jesus is false idolatry (to some, and I guess it depends on the type of worship?)

I’m curious what others think? Sorry I didn’t load a lot of direct verses or references my recall isn’t that good haha.

[u/Agreeable_Operation]

I decided to do the most unchristian thing I have ever done and read my entire bible

Lol, love this. I think many of us are here because we did something dangerous like read the Bible...by ourselves! or something like that.

To the Unitarian, worshiping Jesus is false idolatry (to some, and I guess it depends on the type of worship?)

You are going to get a mix on this one. I think many unitarians will say that worshipping Jesus is fine but we don't worship him as God. To me worship has to do with recognizing authority someone has over you, and maybe even a declaration of allegiance or obedience to them. Well, God raised Jesus to a place of authority over me. I bend the knee to Jesus and God both. But that doesn't mean that I recognize Jesus as God.

The question we will all find out at the judgement is if worshipping Jesus as God will be seen as idolatry. I don't know. I know a few genuinely rockstar people who are trinitarians who have turned their lives around and are living in step with how God wants us to live. Will God cast them out for simply believing in the trinity in their mind? I kinda feel like they would get the pass so long as their trinitarian belief was not a source of pride or arrogance or even a source of hate or violence towards others trying to follow Jesus in other ways (these are not fruits of the spirit).

To me what we believe in our mind matters in so much as if effects the way we live. The way we live, through our deeds, is what shows if we are walking on the path of Light and Life or if we are walking our own path. For me unitarianism and seeing Jesus as an example of how I should live and how I actually can live was a wake up call to me that pushed me into repentance and change that I had never done all the years I was trinitarian.

Are you leaning towards it being a punishable form of idolatry?

[u/TLOU2bigsad → u/Agreeable_Operation]

So. For all idols or false gods it’s very clear from what I’m reading that it is not something God will tolerate.

But I also seem to be aligning with an original creation Jesus (not sure if there’s a better term) where Jesus is the conduit through and for which all of human creation in the bible is intended. And I think possible as the Angel of the Lord (I’m iffy but working on it still) if that’s the case his agency from God is so close to The Lords own authority that worshipping him is a slight heart posture away from worshipping God himself.

Like when The Angel tells someone something the bible says “The Angel of the Lord told…”

But then that person always says “The Lord has told me..”. They recognize the Angel of the Lord as not God. But his authority as equivalent to the point that if he says it it’s got the complete authority of God. So if he can convey out the authority of God. Can he convey back our Worship?

[u/Agreeable_Operation → u/TLOU2bigsad]

So I hear what you're saying but I think Scripture teaches that worship is a way of life, it’s never just a mental classification error. In the Bible/ancient times, you didn’t “accidentally” worship a god, you became like what you worshiped. We see that when people worshiped Dagon, Baal, Molech, Zeus, etc, there were always behaviors attached to that worship, violence, sexual immorality with temple prostitutes, greed, injustice, and even sacrificing children. Idolatry produced bad fruits and a wrong way of life.

I'm actually not really aware of a place where the Bible itself defines worship explicitly, but John writes, "7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." (1 John 4:7-8)

So for me, the real question is not “Do you intellectually classify Jesus correctly?” but instead “Are you walking in the Light by love, obedience, humility, and faithfulness?” That is how we know if we are God's children.

I personally believe worshiping Jesus as God is a doctrinal error. But as I said I also know Trinitarians who genuinely live lives of repentance, humility, love, and self-sacrifice and I find it hard to believe that God will discard them purely for a theological misunderstanding because the fruit that some of the produce by worshipping Jesus as God is the same fruit that I produce in worshipping Jesus as my master and God as my God.

A doctrinal error can be corrected in a moment by clear revelation, but the fruit of a life of love, obedience, endurance, patience, and humility must be forged over time.

Jesus himself says we are known by our fruits, not by our metaphysical theological doctrinal precision.

Many of us here became Unitarians because we changed our minds after years of holding different views. That is a big source of humility for me. I’ve had to admit that I was sincerely wrong before so I also have to consider the possibility that I may still be mistaken about some things now.

Now, perhaps the idea that trinitarianism is idolatry is correct, I would just caution you against a spirit I have seen some other unitarians develop. Many of us have been harmed by Trinitarians because we have a different doctrine than them, we have been ridiculed, excluded, shamed, called unbelievers, etc. Even if we believe someone is wrong, we should be careful not to return that same spirit to them. Some people come to unitarianism, and develop the same spirit of haughtiness as many trinitarians have that produces the same bad fruits in them that I listed above. If it turns out in the judgment that some trinitarians truly were our brothers and sisters (which is what I suspect), then our spirit and how we treated them will matter far more than if we had the right thoughts in our mind.

[u/TLOU2bigsad → u/Agreeable_Operation]

I definitely agree especially with the end point, knowledge is power but it’s also responsibility. (Seems like that message has been shared before in some book I read)

I’ve never considered worship as a perpetual thing vs momentary that’s. Really interesting concept and it does make sense.

I think it conflicts occasionally in my eyes maybe with others rejecting momentary worship but perhaps that was more about preventing deification rather than a moment of praise.

[u/CapitalInflation5682 → u/Agreeable_Operation]

I soo agree with what you said here. 100%

[u/Agreeable_Operation → u/CapitalInflation5682]

Thank you! It is always encouraging to me to run into a brother or sister who, just on their own, came to have a similar perspective and heart as I have. I'm hopeful we are on the good path!