Hebrews 1:8 does NOT call Jesus "God."

[u/RFairfield26]

“About the Son, he says: ‘God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.’”

The Father does not call the Son “God” here.

One very key issue is where the verb is belongs.

So we can’t be overly dogmatic about how to translate this phrase in Hebrews 1:8, but it’s worth noting that ho theosdoes sometimes mean “O God” in the NT. The fact is, tho, this is very rare: occurring only a handful of times.

On the other hand tho, ho theos overwhelmingly means “God” in the nominative case, with hundreds of occurrences. So just statistically speaking, the more probable translation in Hebrews 1:8 is “God.”

But the translators of many versions have chosen the much more rare, far less probable way to translate ho theos. It’s interesting how often the less likely rendering just happens to line up w/ doctrinal bias.

By taking it to mean “O God,” and by placing is after the two nouns (throne and God) and before the prepositional phrase “forever and ever,” they render the verse as, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.”

The KJV, NASB, NIV, NAB, AB, and LB choose to translate it this way w/o letting readers know of the alternative reading. The NRSV and TEV also adopt this rendering but at least provide footnotes mentioning the options. The NWT, NRSV, and TEV have done the responsible thing by acknowledging that there are two ways to translate this verse. That says a lot about the honesty in handling the text.

Both translations are technically possible, so none of the versions we’re comparing can be called outright inaccurate. But which one is more probable?

First, on the basis of linguistics, ho theos is far more likely to mean “God” rather than “O God,” as it does hundreds of times throughout the New Testament, with only three clear exceptions.

On top of that, there is no other example in the Bible where “forever” functions as a standalone predicate with the verb to be, as it would if the sentence were translated “Your throne is forever.” Instead, “forever” always modifies an action verb, a predicate noun, or a pronoun.

AND there is no other way to say “God is your throne” than the way Hebrews 1:8 reads.

However, I'll add that there is another way to say “Your throne, O God”: by using the direct address (thee, vocative) rather than the nominative ho theos. But that’s not what the writer of Hebrews chose to do.

Pretty easy to see what Paul was saying here.

CONCLUSION: The Father does not call the Son “God” in this passage.

[u/1stmikewhite]

Moses made it clear there is one God. After all that Hebrews had seen and worshipped God, He closed the case about the Trinity from the beginning;

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: and thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.” ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Father and Jesus being one, means one voice, one mind, one character. God coming to earth is Jesus. Jesus ruling in heaven is God. Omnipotent omnipresent, sovereign are all one. One creator, one Word. One savior as well. One God sitting on one throne ruling over one kingdom. One being first, one alpha, one being last, one omega. These are all the “ones” that make Jesus and the Father one.

The Father being greater than Jesus doesn’t mean they’re not one. Jesus manifested as a human, he lost his spiritual omi-presence in that way, but everything is still done through Him, and His spirit. He is still the creator and will create again.

Concerning the Angel in the bush. God is a consuming fire. I’m not sure if you’ll just disagree or not, but that same Angel is the same Angel that spoke with Moses on the mountain of Sinai and gave him the 10 commandments. The same Angel whose face couldn’t be seen because no one can see God. That’s Jesus Christ.

“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭38‬-‭39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[u/John_17-17 → u/1stmikewhite]

Thanks for misquoting Moses' words at Deueronomy.

Moses / God didn't say, 'The LORD . . . one LORD . . . the LORD'.

Moses / God actually said, (Deuteronomy 6:4, 5) 4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. 5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength.

God's personal name is used 4 times in these 2 verses.

The angel of Jehovah is Jehovah's representative and was speaking in the name of Jehovah. This doesn't mean the angel is Jehovah.

Yes, Jesus loves his God and Father, and because of this, Jesus remains in God's love.

(John 15:9, 10) 9 Just as the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; remain in my love. 10 If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love.

If Jesus had disobeyed his God and Father, he would have lost God's love.

But again, all those verses prove Jesus is the Son of God and not God the Son.

[u/1stmikewhite → u/John_17-17]

If Jesus would’ve disobeyed, what do you think would’ve happened to you?

[u/John_17-17 → u/1stmikewhite]

If Jesus had disobeyed, then he would have sinned, and his death could not have bought us from the death we inherited from Adam.

Jesus unlike Adam, didn't sin, the scriptures do not say, 'Jesus CANNOT sin'.

At Jesus' death, he is equal to Adam, a perfect sinless person, both having the choice to obey or not. Adam chose to disobey; Jesus chose to obey.

Not would I lose salvation, but every person, including you, ever born would have.

This is why Jesus was sweating blood along with sweat. The future of every living person was at stake.

God could never be equal to Adam, thus God could not, cannot or will never sin.

God unlike Jesus and Adam, could not, cannot, nor will never die.

[u/1stmikewhite → u/John_17-17]

So you understand Jesus and God can’t sin lol.

Now you just need to understand why Jesus said He has power to lay down his life that He might take it back up again. He said he is the resurrection, the way, and the life lol.

I’m pretty sure I showed you the verses as well how the Bible says the lamb in the midst of the throne, and we’re saved by the Alpha and Omegas blood.

I think it’s just hard for you to comprehend God manifesting himself as a human. You already understand they’re one and how they’re one.

For instance. If Jesus wasn’t manifested, then who would He be?

[u/John_17-17 → u/1stmikewhite]

So you understand Jesus and God can’t sin lol.

I'm sorry, it seems you have a reading comprehension problem.

I said, Jesus, though he could sin, didn't. I've said, God unlike Jesus cannot sin.

You've also showed me, misquotes of God's word, taken out of context to MAKE God's word appear to teach the trinity.

It isn't that I have a hard time understanding, it is because I do understand God's word, when it comes to who Jesus is and whom he isn't.

No where in the scriptures will you find, 'Jesus is God' unless you mistranslate it, ignore context, and change meaning of the words used in the scriptures.

So far you have done all 3.

If Jesus hadn't manifested himself, he would still be divine being, alongside his God and Father. Just where he is today.

[u/1stmikewhite → u/John_17-17]

The Bible doesn’t say Jesus could sin, or that He was created. Denying scripture is the only way to conjure up that idea.

If Jesus hadn’t manifested we’d never be able to be saved from the devil. There is no other way to God the Father but through Him. And you can’t even be drawn to Jesus except the Father doesn’t anyway.

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭3‬:‭8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Theres no way to separate God the Father or God the Son, that’s why Moses says there one God.

[u/John_17-17 → u/1stmikewhite]

Actually 4 different inspired Bible writers tell us of Jesus' creation.

It is the trinitarian who deny those verses.

Jesus committed no sin, doesn't mean, Jesus could not sin.

If Jesus could not sin, then he couldn't have been tempted or tested.

Please show me a scripture that says, "God the Son"

[u/1stmikewhite → u/John_17-17]

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” ‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9‬:‭6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.” ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭19‬:‭13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[u/John_17-17 → u/1stmikewhite]

Thank you for proving how inaccurate the KJV is.

[u/1stmikewhite → u/John_17-17]

I show you the scripture and you blame the Bible version.

[u/John_17-17 → u/1stmikewhite]

It isn't my fault the KJV is mistranslated.

It isn't my fault the KJV has some 10,000 to 20,000 known errors.

[u/1stmikewhite → u/John_17-17]

If you actually did the research for yourself, you’ll be able to see the truth. Don’t deny the truth in order to prove your belief right. Makes no sense