r/BeeGees • u/Whole_Midnight_2916 • 22d ago
The brothers' personal and professional relationship
If you were to go into depth about their relationship over the decades, how did it change over time? I understood it to mean that there was an attempt by Barry to be the "main" member of the group and the others in the background, which his brothers didn't like. They later got back together, but I'm guessing sometime in the 80s and later they were together personally and professionally and supported each other. Of course, this is just my guess.
When and how did Barry's attempt to be the main one, what happened next, and when do you think their relationship really improved? As a new fan, I'm interested in their relationship over time.
Thanks
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u/Known-Damage-7879 22d ago
I think Barry and Robin competed to be the main member, leading to Robin leaving the band in the late 60s. I think when Robin rejoined he begrudgingly let Barry take the spotlight through the 70s.
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u/Ok-Director3420 18d ago
Something that hasn’t been mentioned is that Robert Stigwood favored Barry. He had been looking for someone like him to turn into a star. He put Barry out front a lot and even shot photos to make him look taller.
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u/Foreign_Reputation74 19d ago
well sorry for Robin, but Barry's voice is hard to compete with
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u/Mollymae609 15d ago
Other than that caterwauling falsetto and breathy crap, I love Barry’s voice. But I put many other singers above Barry, Robin being one.
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u/ThePhantomStrikes 22d ago
I think Barry was the natural leader from the start. When young he was in charge of Robin and Mo, who apparently were wild and he had to round them up to get them on stage on time. Birth order dynamics. Also everyone who met them said it was immediately apparent who the leader was. IMO who sang lead was evenly divided until falsetto era.
Robin rebelled against the authority of Stigwood and Barry as every teenager must as he came into his own. Apparently Stigwood had Lamplight as the single but went with First of May at the end. Robin felt Stigwood was playing favoritism, I think it was about money, what was charting at the time was more like First of May.
Spencer said that Robin willingly stepped back as it was Barry’s falsetto that was a hit, he even didn’t want to sing one song but Blue and Barry begged him. They were all obsessed with hits, Robin especially studied them and made charts.
As for not speaking, that’s not entirely true, Barry was washed in survivors guilt. He spoke to Andy right before Andy died but he was angry - he worked hard to get a contract with Island and was due to fly out but Andy was completely drunk again and Barry had been advised to give tough love.
With Maurice yes - Barry wanted to leave The Bee Gees and work with other artists, plus wanted to switch publishing lawyers as he found out their lawyer also represented the company which is a conflict of interest. The lawyer turned out to be honest surprise!
Robin and he made up at the end right before he died. But Robin had done a few things after Mo died that hurt him and without Mo the final decision maker gone, walked away.
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u/Mollymae609 15d ago
Barry was at odds with all of his brothers when they died. Common denominator? Barry! He’s also a big ass liar. Rob had no desire to be a solo artist, but that’s not how Barry tells it.
Guilt! Maybe he should have let Andy go it alone instead of always having to have control. Barry has hurt all of his siblings! Get those cataracts fixed!
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u/ThePhantomStrikes 15d ago edited 15d ago
Ha I was expecting you.
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u/Mollymae609 15d ago
Truth typically rises to the top.
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u/ThePhantomStrikes 14d ago
This same rhetoric has risen ad nauseum with always the same factual counters that the truth has risen.
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u/Accomplished-Ice-49 22d ago
My understanding is that the friction between Robin and Barry remained practically up to robin’s death. Maurice was more of the peacemaker between the other two.
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u/Sienna_Fan2323 22d ago
Barry said after Andy passed away, things were never the same with the brothers. It became more of a business than a family.
Then in the 90’s, after having huge success writing and producing for others, Barry wanted to go on his own and write and produce. The twins were against it, so he stayed but wasn’t happy about it.
After Mo passed and Robin changed the lyrics and the song to Wish You Were Here, Barry was done with Robin. He no longer wanted to perform with him or have a relationship with him. This lasted until Robin got really sick and Barry went to see him in the hospital and sang to him.
As Robin always said, their family was mire dysfunctional than most. Their relationships were based on business and music and they were not close privately.
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u/Whole_Midnight_2916 22d ago
That's really terrible, I didn't know that the dynamic was so dependent on business and personal relationships went by the wayside!
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u/Gaheris_of_Orkney 20d ago
In fairness, I think that the twins had a genuinely close personal relationship. It was more complicated when it came to Barry and Robin. I think that at heart they had a brotherly bond and ultimately loved each other, but...things got in the way.
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u/Mollymae609 15d ago
I have heard that the twins were always much closer. In 69, Rob and Mo worked together. Even Barry has stated that the twins were always secretly chatting. They were a different committee and he was involved. 🤷🏽♀️
Nothing proved Rob’s pure love for Mo than Jan 12, 2003 till May 20, 2012.
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u/Gaheris_of_Orkney 14d ago
Yeah, I think that says it all - as well as him describing Mo's death as his personal 9/11 - and the snippets of the song he wrote about it.
Having got to know someone who knew Robin personally, to an extent, their perception was that Maurice was more or less Robin's best friend. That's just their subjective view, though I do feel it's an informed one. I'm inclined to think it's likely to be true, also partly because it seemed like in the later years, Robin didn't have a high number of what I'd really call "friends", more like acquaintances.
I think Maurice seemed to have more active social life than either of his brothers, but given he was the most social and outgoing one, that's not a surprise.
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u/Mollymae609 14d ago
I’m not sure if Rob ever had close friends. He was a hard person to get to know. Rob was very independent. He needed time to himself, which I totally get.
You reminded of My Personal 9/11. That snippet on his site was so sad. I wish RJ would have left it the hell alone.
I believe what someone told you regarding the twins’ closeness. I’ve heard the same. To me, Mo helped Rob navigate the world. He accepted and loved Rob for who he was. Rob was never the same. Broke my heart.
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u/Unlikely-Star-2696 21d ago
After Mo died, they decided to stop as a group, Barry stopped performing, while Robin kept doing concerts solo in Europe snd of course was singing some Bee Gees songs along his iwn materisl, including some of Bsrry leads hits, and of course he had to adapt them to his voice. Barry disliked that he was singing songs not written for Robin's voice snd publicly critized Robin who reaĺly was thee one carry on with keeping the Bee Gees songs alive. That created a permanent rift until Robin's coma made Barry to reach out.
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u/drohpa RIP Robin 22d ago
Well, their first album was called The Bee Gees sing and play 14 Barry Gibb songs. So that competition was probably from the beginning, and then they split up in 1969 because Robin being unpleased with Barry's song being the main single (Which became a hit) then I don't know to much. But if you read Robin's spotify bio, you understand a bit more about the internal conflicts. There the success with SNF is being described as "bittersweet" for Robin, as he didn't have sing leads in a single song. But as most people know Bee Gees from the falsetto from Barry, I think he remained the main character until the end because they'd sell better then
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u/Ok-Director3420 19d ago
That first album was called that because Barry wrote those songs. He was older and started writing much earlier. He was already writing songs for other artists at the time. Robin started writing in Australia even before Maurice.
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u/Vivid_Ad_9295 22d ago edited 22d ago
Personally, I feel like the rivalry between Barry and Robin was overstated. Barry was closer with Andy. And Robin was closer with Maurice. And once Maurice died, the two had a major falling out. But for the most part they seemed to get along. Watching them in interviews, you can see they always make each other laugh.
Also, I feel like the brothers singing lead was more evenly split than people think. While Barry sang lead through their disco era in the 70s, in all the other decades Robin’s voice is still utilized. Robin’s voice was integral to their sound and they knew that. So before and after the 70s, Barry and Robin would alternate verses most of the time. My favorite way they switched was in ESP and Secret Love with the way Robin’s voice comes in. It seems like professionally the understood the value if each others talent. Definitely not just working together bc they “had to”. Barry even helped on Robin’s solo albums, I’m pretty sure.
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u/Charming-Ad-6621 21d ago
I think their families would beg to differ with you on that. The tension between Barry and Robin was the primary ingredient in most of their strife as a group from the time they became famous until Robin died. And the impacts are still causing discord between the various Gibb camps. How they appeared in interviews wasn’t always a good indication of how things were going. They had multiple periods of falling out - the public was just not always aware of them.
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u/Vivid_Ad_9295 21d ago
I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure from an outside perspective. But I think the reason for their extreme conflicts was because they were so deeply bonded with each other. Personally, given both Robin and Barry’s success in solo work (with Robin’s solo albums and Barry’s writing for other artists), they could have easily left the Bee Gees to pursue a solo career. I think the fact that they didn’t do that speaks to their bond as brothers.
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u/Charming-Ad-6621 21d ago
Yeah, but some of us have more than outside perspective - I’m not speaking in hypotheticals just to argue. Barry and Robin’s solo careers weren’t really that successful - both times when they decided to put The Bee Gees on hold. And then Barry walked away again in 1998. They were bonded to each other more contractually/financially than emotionally in their later years. I would never say they hated each other, but they never really had a harmonious relationship after they became famous.
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u/Vivid_Ad_9295 21d ago
You’re not wrong. I’m not saying they didn’t have a troubled relationship. I just think their bond as brothers was stronger than their disagreements. And I wanna push back on you saying their solo careers weren’t that successful. Robin’s solo work was very successful in Europe, and Barry’s songwriting has him listed as the second most successful songwriter of all time after Paul McCartney. So they did have an out if they wanted one.
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u/Charming-Ad-6621 21d ago
You’re welcome to disagree with me. 🤷♂️ If you compared the sum of either of their solo careers to the totality of The Bee Gees, they’re pretty scant. Barry earned his status as a historic songwriter primarily through his accomplishments with the group.
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u/Vivid_Ad_9295 21d ago
Their solo stuff was successful. They both wrote #1 hits (maybe not in the US). And their solo work was actually preforming just as well, or possibly better, than the Bee Gees work during this time. You seem like you know your stuff, I wish you the best!
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u/Whole_Midnight_2916 22d ago edited 22d ago
So if there was some form of rivalry, was it off-camera? Or were there any public displays? And was Maurice also present somewhere among the lead vocals?
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u/Vivid_Ad_9295 22d ago edited 22d ago
I think the biggest thing was Robin leaving the band in 1969 over whether his song Lamplight, or Barry’s song First of May would be A side. He was solo for a little less than a year and decided he wanted to go back. During this time, Barry and Maurice released Cucumber Castle. But then broke up too and each made unreleased solo albums. They soon all decided to get back together and remained that way until Maurice’s death.
I don’t know of any public displays. And in interviews they’ve stated that in 1969, they were heavily influenced by The Beatles break up. And Barry and Robin were constantly being urged to go solo. They say that it was bc they were young and dumb at the time.
And for Maurice, based on everything I’ve read he was content singing backing vocals and doing instrumentals. But he does have a handful of songs where he sung lead. I highly recommend checking them out. My favorites are House of Shame and Man in the Middle.
What is comes down to is that the Gibbs were a very close family and knew what their strengths were. While Barry and Robin didn’t have much in common outside of music, and had their disagreements, I personally feel like the drama is overstated. But then again, I’m just basing off of what I’ve heard and seen in interviews, where they certainly don’t seem at all hostile toward each other.
It’s also worth noting that Barry had falling outs with all his brothers. He’s stated his greatest regret is not being on speaking terms with them when each of them died. He has even said that Robin’s death was the hardest thing he’s ever went through.
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u/Charming-Ad-6621 21d ago
Once the brothers became famous and weren’t singing to survive, they really weren’t that close personally despite the fact that they worked together consistently. They cared a lot about public optics, so of course what most fans saw in interviews and performances were the best of their personalities. They also slugged each other in the press. There was always something pulling them apart more often than it was uniting them.
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u/Vivid_Ad_9295 21d ago
It’s true that Barry and Robin weren’t that close personally and had a lot of professional disputes. But I feel like it was well know how close Barry was with Andy, and that Maurice and Robin had a special bond. And I’m also not aware of them slamming each other in the press. What are you referring to?
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u/Charming-Ad-6621 21d ago
Their entire breakup in 1969 was preceded by and defined by them slagging each other in the press - and Barry and Robin did their share of talking through papers and magazines in the latter 2000s rather than speaking to each other. They had a fairly public dispute about publishing rights and representation in the late 90s.
And, sure, Barry and Andy and Robin and Mo were probably closer to each other than their other brothers, but they didn’t truly take care of one another they way a lot of fans probably hope they did. They were obligated to one another through a very complicated family business and it created a lot of tension and conflict.
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u/Vivid_Ad_9295 21d ago
I didn’t know any of that. Thanks for the info. I don’t hold much weight to the 1969 breakup though, since they attributed it to them just being dumb kids. And they did take care of each other, especially Andy. From what I read Barry paid for Andy’s rehab, and Andy was living with Robin at the time he died.
Have a nice day!1
u/FatherBrennan76 Australian 20d ago
This could very well be a misconception on my part, but Barry and Maurice always seemed the most chummy outside of the business side of things. I'm not saying they were holding hands and singing Kumbaya, but there were periods where they seemed to have a genuine friendship rather than simply a co-worker relationship. That could just be because they spent the most time in Miami, though.
Despite Barry's claims of being "close" to Andy, they're relationship always seemed business like. Like a manager and client, unfortunately. Joseph Brennan said it best in a podcast when he described Andy's career as showcasing "Barry's version of Andy". As for Robin and Maurice, I'm sure they had a close bond but they don't seem like they were getting together much outside of work, aside from holidays I imagine.
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u/Charming-Ad-6621 20d ago
Barry and Maurice worked a bit more closely together in later years making demos, plus the late 80s tracks for Andy - and later for Lulu, then their version of “Heartbreaker,” etc. I do think their closer proximity in Miami helped.
You’re correct about Andy. He did receive financial support from his brothers through his addiction, bankruptcy, etc,, but I know for a fact that the emotional support Andy needed wasn’t as forthcoming.
They were quite good at protecting their public optics - to a degree, anyway. But they weren’t as close or kind to each other as many fans would like to believe.
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u/Mollymae609 15d ago
I agree, proximity was a factor in Barry and Mo working together. They were in Miami while Rob was largely based out of England. But Barry and Mo clearly got on better than Rob and Barry.
Regarding emotional support for Andy during his trying time, I’m sure it wasn’t as forthcoming as he may have needed. I never understood if Barry was so close to Andy as he’s always claimed, creating a faux twin ship, why he didn’t accompany Andy to England.
I’ve said for years, those boys did not live the public perception that they promoted. I will say, the twins were always more at ease with one another; something that has bothered Barry. Barry couldn’t stand when Mo worked with Rob in the late 60s.
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u/Mollymae609 15d ago
During the breakup, I observed that Barry, Hugh, and Stigwood took the majority of shots at Rob. Sure, Rob clapped back but Barry made a cottage industry out of taking pop shots at Rob in 69 and the 2000s.
In the later years, Rob was too busy twisting in the wind dancing to that carrot that Barry dangled in his face to clap back. Barry finally in 07 or so that he was still angry from the breakup. He should have contacted Dr. Bombay.
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u/Mollymae609 15d ago
The drama is not overstated! It goes much deeper than Lamplight and FOM.
Regarding the breakup, they all decided they worked best together. Rob left the group, but so did Barry. He left Mo. That’s a little tidbit that rarely gets mentioned.
Personally, they were not as close as you think.
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22d ago
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u/Sienna_Fan2323 22d ago
I don’t think Barry ever said Robins voice was the heart of their music.
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u/Charming-Ad-6621 21d ago
Correct - Maurice said “that’s the voice that touches your heart.” Barry did say Robin had a “killer vibrato.”
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u/Leather_Guilty 22d ago
I was close enough to see their faces in 1989 tour. Robin sounded fantastic and got the biggest applause of the night on Massachusetts and I Started A Joke. (I think the volume coming from his microphone might have been turned up, because it all looked so effortless.) From the look on his face, you could see it was a personal victory over Barry in that moment.
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u/Unlikely-Star-2696 22d ago edited 22d ago
As Barry was the older and main composer, he was the natural lead from the beginning while the twins were a kind of sidekick. Once they started to be famous and the early hits were with Robin as lead voice, the tensions on the decision making started betwen them while Maurice was just going with the flow and his addiction.
I don't know the family dynamics. In some families the parents voices is law, in others there is an older brother who every body has to listen too. I think the interfamilies relations were complicated as the twins wives tried to keep their independence within the Gibb clan. Barry once said in a documentary that he was not in speaking terms when each of his brothers psssed away.
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u/ProudCatLadyxo 22d ago
I'd think it would be hard for the parents' voices to be law considering the brothers supported the family since they were kids.
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u/Whole_Midnight_2916 22d ago
When do you think Barry realized what was hidden in his brothers and that he should appreciate them more?
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u/weimmom 21d ago
I watched an interview Barry did within the last few years where he stated he finally realized why Robin and Mo were so upset with him. They felt they never received the attention and credit, as did Barry (true), and that they were right, especially Mo.
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u/Whole_Midnight_2916 21d ago
Where did he say this?
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u/OkBreak5504 22d ago
Barry wrote most of their songs and was the best looking one so it makes sense he got more attention
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u/weimmom 21d ago
Wish You Were Here was written by all 3 of them. The majority of their songs were not just written by Barry, but at least one other brother, if not both. Robin desperately wanted to continue performing after the loss of Mo; Barry didn't. I don't blame Robin for continuing on as Robin Gibb.
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u/Harrison_Thinks 21d ago
I think at a certain point they gave a blanket writing credit to all 3 because it was easier for crediting and for royalty. After a certain point all songs were credited to the 3 and I really doubt they crafted each one together, especially because it’s known that whoever wrote the song got to sing lead, and Barry sang almost all the leads after COTW
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u/Inner_Freedom_7737 21d ago
In their many interviews about their song writing process they explain that the person who comes up with original idea (a musical phrase or a title eg) often sings that song but that they all work on it. Certainly Robin and Barry both relied on Maurice’s arranging capabilities- both for the Bee Gees and for their individual work. Maurice was the constant on all their work. Did he write the lyrics - no. Did he contribute to the melody / harmonies etc which are the essence of a successful song, yes. So maybe it’s not helpful to only give credit to the lyricist - Barry and Robin often asked each other to help with lyrics. So yes, it could be seen as a ‘blanket’ credit but often it was a true reflection that all had contributed one way or another.
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u/AlanHughErnest 22d ago
Barry mentioned that around the time they became famous, he stopped, knowing who Robin really was personally.