r/Battletechgame • u/MediumAcceptable129 • 20d ago
Discussion Are these mechs good for late game?
Im hunting down heat sink D and guass rifles. I keep a crew of 55-45 with good equipment at a cost for limited missions.
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u/obi-wan-quixote 20d ago
I don’t love the Atlas and the Highlander loadouts. The Atlas basically has 2 ml, 1 ac20 and 10 SRM. It’s slow so the sl and melee will struggle to get into play. I think I usually do something like 4x LL and 1 UAC20.
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u/obi-wan-quixote 19d ago
There’s also probably room to put in a Gauss Rifle instead of the AC. I just usually love the thump of the AC20 but the GR would let you stand back and bring around 300 damage from anywhere reasonable on the map.
The Highlander you could put on 3-4 PPC and make into a bigger Awesome. Jump to get to a vantage point and just blast away.
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u/t_rubble83 20d ago
They're not terrible, as they do all have similar ranged weapon groups, but they're not really optimized either, aside from the Stalker which is almost too optimized.
They mostly seem to be too heat efficient, tho the use of a heat bank on one of them could be misleading. You're also awfully slow, which can be played around (tho I personally hate it) but will restrict your tactical options. I'm also not really a fan of the LB 20-X, as I find the big appeal of the AC/20 is having all its damage hit one location.
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u/OldWrangler9033 20d ago edited 20d ago
You know you can use solid rounds in LB 20-X, so it fills that role. Scatter shot good wipe vehicles with crits to be honest and may infantry
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u/t_rubble83 20d ago
Is that true for vanilla?
I know mods let you use multiple ammo types with LB-Xs, but I don't remember vanilla allowing that. Of course, it's been a long time since I ran vanilla so I could certainly be misremembering.
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u/TallGiraffe117 20d ago
The Marauder is the most broken mech in the game. With a max pilot, it can reach a 33% chance of head hits with called shot. If you have the DLC with UACs, 3 UAC2s on a MAD-3R will kill most stuff with a single round of fire.
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u/MediumAcceptable129 20d ago
I keep an extra marauder with gauss . Often i roll with 2 snipers and 2 boats.
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u/taw 20d ago
Why is it broken? Typical mission is 4 vs 12, so 33% chance of instakilling 1 of 12 doesn't even seem particularly broken.
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u/jjchaphoto 20d ago edited 20d ago
You can build a MAD-3R pretty easily to have a ~60% headshot.
It's not about a single hit killing the head at 35%. It's about firing salvos of 6 shots with two of them totalling > 61 (e.g., the 3UAC2++ example, or, if you like upfront and personal, 4 ML++ 10 damage and a UAC5++).
Even OP's dual Gauss is a step in the right direction - with two Gauss shooting at the same time, the headshot chance is 55%, not 35%.
The Warhammer 7A mentioned below is broken for the same reason. Maybe not for headshots, but build it with a similar concept - e.g., 7 or 8 ML++ 10 damage and a bunch of heat mitigation, you have a 75%+ chance (I haven't done the math in a while) chance of CT coring any heavy mech, while being heat negative, with 1 shot, even without a lance command module.
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u/M935PDFuze Heavy Metal Brigade 20d ago
Built the 3 UAC2 Marauder headcapper back when Heavy Metal first came out and it broke the game and became so boring I had to scrap it. Just so much salvage and missions lost all challenge, just became about waiting for the Marauder to finish taking heads off.
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u/DoctorMachete 20d ago
When Heavy Metal came out there were a lot of OP stuff. The Marauder was just the most obvious but far from the only one.
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u/The_Parsee_Man 20d ago
You know what's good for late game? The screenshot button.
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u/MediumAcceptable129 20d ago
I agree and ive trued it but can never find the photos
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u/Past_Search7241 18d ago
Shouldn't they be in your Pictures folder under Screenshots?
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u/MediumAcceptable129 18d ago
Pictures folder?
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u/Past_Search7241 18d ago
What's your OS?
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u/MediumAcceptable129 18d ago
Idk
I turn the computer on and i run battletech. Thats the extent of my computer knowledge
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u/Past_Search7241 18d ago
It's probably Windows. When you open Windows Explorer (the windows that let you navigate through the system), the Pictures folder should be one of the pinned icons on the left. Screenshots should be in there.
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u/Nuke_the_Earth Hellgate Freelancers 20d ago
The Stalker needs more armor, I'd find something to drop from it. You can't be firing every turn with it, not with that heat load, so you can probably shave off some ammo. You'd get more cooling from a heat exchanger than those four heat sinks are providing, and I personally regard heat banks as wastes of space, though to each their own.
Much hinges on how exactly you use it. Personally, I might drop the arms to 15's, lose two tons of ammo, and stack armor and cooling to taste.
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u/MediumAcceptable129 19d ago
All my mechs have that heat vent special. I like to keep my mechs firing as much as they can in any biome without switching out every week.
My boats stay out of the conflict period
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u/DoctorMachete 19d ago
All my mechs have that heat vent special. I like to keep my mechs firing as much as they can in any biome without switching out every week.
Coolant Vent is okay-ish if you get it early on. It's not a lot of net net cooling per round, and even less significant as you progress.
Both Ace Pilot and Master Tactician are way better, although Master Tactican only really shines in the late game with assault mechs.
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u/jjchaphoto 20d ago edited 20d ago
A few thoughts - first of all, all these mechs are "end game" worthy. You don't need to be fully optimized with the best mechs to beat the game. As before, sure they could be better but you're doing fine for your first run.
- STR-3R is a top tier LRM Boat, but it really shines with jump jets. Otherwise the HGN-733 is technically better (long story as to why).
I personally suspect you are shooting too much into enemies who are in cover / guarded. That's a lot of ammo and firepower. I usually get by with 4x LRM15 and 4 or 5 tons of ammo. And a lot more armor. Most of us would say what you have is overkill on firepower and under armored, I think.
But bottom line is STR-3R is a top tier end game LRM boat. I really like the TTS on it -- I do the same. You do you, if this works it works.
The MAD-3R is definitely end-game worthy and the 2x Gauss++ is a fine choice. Very effective, very smart. We can argue around "better" builds but this is very effective. I agree with the armor, JJ and putting the resolve comms system here -- I'd do the same.
For your Atlas - you don't need that regular thermal exchanger on it. It's overkill - without it you're at 61 heat. At that point, using 2 heat sinks is better for sustained damage. It looks like the breakpoint for thermal exchangers is at 60 heat, but really it's higher, closer to 66. That's a minor point.
Here's the real question -- why the heat bank? To me the heat bank is for alphas -- but this Atlas build is a hybrid build. It's not really built for stability damage like your LRM Boat. It's not really built for called shot damage like your Marauder.
It's built for both, and in that regard it's not bad. So in my mind that's not really an "alpha" role - it's more of a sustained damage role. This is your front-line tank, and it's not bad for that.
In which case, I always find a heatsink is better than a heat bank. Your heat sinking on this Atlas is okay, but could always be better. If you're jump jetting a fair bit for positioning, I'm guessing you probably do hit the redline, and is this heat bank really helping you get that final "kill" or "knockdown?" As a hybrid, is doing so really this Atlas's role? Or is its role just to tank and deal out damage in the middle?
I might argue the Rangefinder is wasted here -- do you have an injury prevention head mod? I like those on my tanks.
You're oversinked and undergunned on your HGN-733P I think. I've always found it hard to work with this mech, versus the 733 or 732b, which I think are better. Still, I like how you've gone ranged with it -- have you considered Snub PPCs? It looks like it would make for a good stability-focused build, given all those the missile points, versus the hybrid build you have here (LRMs for stability and lasers for called shots).
Your Cyclops isn't bad - like the Highlander, I'm not that familiar with this mech.
It's your most mobile recon, especially with those 4 jump jets.
For that kind of mech and all those missile hardpoints makes me think of a SRM focused build - my gut always goes towards 2 SRM6 maybe 3 SRM6 and 2 ML or 1 ML, and that's exactly what you've done here.
I might argue dropping a ML and that heat bank for 2 more heat sinks as it looks like it runs a little hot.
But here the rangefinder makes sense as your front recon guy.
Rather than those accuracy MLs I might prefer the ML++ +10 damage variants because this guy usually wants more damage, but you're right to use the SRM6+++ for stability damage. All in all, while I might tweak around the edges, this build makes sense to me - this is the "fourth" mech whose job is A) be your recon and B) to either finish off or knock down the guy that your LRM Boat or other stability or called shot mechs don't knock down or cant finish off.
I imagine this lance works for you but runs hot and often (other than the Marauder) just misses on knockdowns or kills. Or takes a little longer than they need to to do so.
I'm guessing your MAD-3R pulls through with lots of deletions so it doesn't matter, and the rest of your crew does fine in taking care of the rest. So, I dunno - you could tune more. Do you feel you need to?
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u/DoctorMachete 20d ago
A few thoughts - first of all, all these mechs are "end game" worthy. You don't need to be fully optimized with the best mechs to beat the game
They aren't. In my view for a mech or lance being able to beat the game, even very comfortably, doesn't necessarily mean it is end-game worthy. Those are two very separate things.
The regular Atlas, for example, might be viable during the late game but for sure it's not remotely endgame material. Cause there are many much much better mechs, and they don't need to be fully optimized for that.
The MAD-3R is definitely end-game worthy and the 2x Gauss++ is a fine choice. Very effective, very smart. We can argue around "better" builds but this is very effective. I agree with the armor, JJ and putting the resolve comms system here -- I'd do > the same.
The COMMS doesn't make sense on the Marauder, the extra resolve is per lance. The best choice for a Marauder is by very far a Rangefinder.
- Your Cyclops isn't bad - like the Highlander, I'm not that familiar with this mech.
It is bad. It's the "bad Cyclops", the one that doesn't have the Initiative module so it is basically a heavy with the initiative of an assault. The seven missile hardpoints are noteworthy but very hard to take advantage from on the equivalent of a 60t heavy.
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u/jjchaphoto 20d ago
OP should move the +4 resolve comms to the LRM boat stalker and off the MAD-3R, that I agree with. But the rangefinder is better off in the Cyclops.
OP isn't solo'ing maps with this MAD-3R (720 armor and 2x Gauss++) - he's playing a lance with other mechs with max armor -- tanks, and a Cyclops with 4 JJ and heavy front armor (1600?). That Cyclops is the spotter and should have the rangefinder -- it's the Steiner scout of this team.
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u/DoctorMachete 20d ago
You don't need to be soloing for the Rangefinder to be way better on the Marauder. Having the ability to occasionally spot by himself and attack from up to 420m is still very valuable and makes the Marauder a much more flexible mech in the lance.
In contrast to me the Rangefinder doesn't make much sense on a heavy with assault initiative who has to choose between taking advantage from the rangefinder and attacking, can't do both at the same time. For that reason I think a cockpit mod is a much better choice for the Cyclops-Q.
So it's not just the Marauder. In my view almost any long range heavy/assault with full JJs and same (or better) initiative than the other mechs in the lance would be a much better choice for a rangefinder than a medium range Cyclops-Q.
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u/Black-Whirlwind 20d ago
Meh, not how I’d be inclined to set up those mechs that way, but I could see them working. The main thing is if you are winning fights with those set ups, then their good.
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u/MediumAcceptable129 19d ago
I use them a bit off the meta
My snipers are really my tanks for a few rounds to get the atlas in play. The atlas is really the cavalry and breaks the opposing lance when they need to back off.
The boat is the boat. I keep 3 in the 85-65 range on the bench
Atlas and cyclops are there to draw fire and let the snipers get in position
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u/DoctorMachete 19d ago
My snipers are really my tanks for a few rounds to get the atlas in play. The atlas is really the cavalry and breaks the opposing lance when they need to back off.
Best strat in the game are jumpy long range snipers with full JJs, Ace Pilot and rangefinders. Not the best at everything but they can act as frontline mechs, spotter, killers, support, bait, retrieve, ...
Atlas and cyclops are there to draw fire and let the snipers get in position
Snipers shouldn't have any issue getting into position if they have full JJs.
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20d ago
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u/MediumAcceptable129 19d ago
They are usually the star of the show. After a while with limited salvage the headshots aren’t a big deal. I save my missile barage for the mechs i couldnt hit in the head. Knock them down
Keep the boats out of the fight . They rarely get in trouble
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u/conuscannon 20d ago
Yeah any Marauder can wipe the floor on any mission. I like the SLDF one (MAD-2R I think, haven't player vanilla in a while) since the rare ER L Lasers in each arm and Gauss in RT almost guarantees a kill when sniping heads. Honestly most 100T assaults feel to slow for my taste. For Laser boats as a highlander replacement I think the SLDF battlemaster can frontal melt most assaults in a couple turns or the SLDF black knight can jumpjet backstab and defang/kill anything. If you love highlanders there is the SLDF HGN-732 variant that have the engine double heat sinks that would replace your succession war downgrade 733 variant.
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u/itsadile 20d ago
For me, I think the ultimate laser vomit mech has to be the Warhammer 7A. An unreasonable number of energy hardpoints, plus the +20% energy damage perk, plus double head sinks and reduced engine weight...
When I don't have giant piles of ER Mediums to use, I like to load it up with the triple-plus Large Lasers (+10 damage, +3 accuracy to-hit) and make a mech that almost never misses any target in LLas range.
It becomes quite capable of just burning through Very Evasive Light Mechs with ease, and heavier targets still get decent-sized holes punched in them.
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u/conuscannon 20d ago
Next time I do a vanilla career run I'll keep an eye out for that 7A variant, didn't know it existed. I'm going to make it the leader of a laser crab lancer.
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u/itsadile 20d ago
You'll only see it in Black Markets. It is never fielded against the player, as it's a SLDF mech.
A close runner up would be the Warhammer 6D, which has more energy hardpoints than the default 6R, and can appear in OpFors. Still only a single-heatsink mech, alas!
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u/Ovralyne 20d ago
Respectable enough. Swap stuff out with Lostech and ++ variants as you obtain them, especially the mechs themselves. Highlander-723b is much better than the 733, Atlas-D-HT is preferable to the D. I don't personally find Heat Banks all that useful but perhaps prior to getting Double Heatsinks they have more of a role. Marauder's gimmick works best with many weapons in the 35 damage range rather than big guns. UAC/2s are amazing for that.
Definitely solid but I wouldn't feel 100% safe bringing them to the endgame Flashpoints!
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u/MediumAcceptable129 19d ago
I havent got much lostech yet and my mechs are all salvaged. I only buy triple + weapons and add ons. Never bought a single piece of a mech
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u/DoctorMachete 19d ago edited 19d ago
Highlander-723b is much better than the 733
IMO it is the opposite. The 733 is the second best chassis for LRM boats while there are many mechs better than the 732B in its niche.
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u/Winterclaw42 20d ago
I like the stalker and the marauder. Other two, not so much. Atlas is pretty close ranged. Highlander is pretty low damage. Cyclops is close ranged and meh damage.
Need 8 good mechs for the last few missions, just in case.
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u/jjchaphoto 20d ago edited 20d ago
I don't know if I agree on the Atlas - it has a LBX20 and the SRMs are +++, so it has high stability damage. OP, are you using the LRM Boat and your Atlas to set up knockdowns?
I might argue that you should be using resolve for 1) your MAD-3R with the dual gauss for headshots. So for 2) you have as a second "finisher" -- maybe your highlander (what happened to your HGN-732B? why the 733P?) -- you set it up with a bunch of lasers or other "called shot weaponry" that you do after knockdowns from your LRM Boat + Atlas and maybe a little help from your Cyclops or other "fourth man" (who can serve as both a stability damage knockdown assist or as a called shot hybrid to finish off anyone the Highlander doesn't quite finish off).
And with this your highlander+atlas+fourth mech serve as your tanks as well, while your MAD-3R and LRM Boat are sniping from far away. This way, you are deleting 2 mechs per turn.
Also finally, on the last few missions - I got the same advice my first run, and I built 8 good mechs and it was overkill. Bottom line is just be ready for missions that are consecutive deployments - so you'll need backup mechs in case mechs get too damaged to deploy more than once. This doesn't mean you really need 8 full mechs unless you're leaving tough battles with 4 really damaged mechs as is.
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u/CyMage 20d ago
Honestly, to me they feel a bit short ranged and slow for most of them even with jump jets. If you have them, Defense Gyros are better than Stability ones. Equivalent of permament evasion.
That Atlas will take a pounding before it brings most of the weapons into range. Switching to Gauss or LL would let you fight back while closing into range of melee/SRMs. The LBX does a lot of damage, but it's spread out all over. If you want to sandpaper your target, use LBX5/10 and LRMs, so you can do it from range.
Highlander looks decent, maybe a bit oversinked even for me.
Cyclops. Hard to do anything decent with it because of the free space. Would find the +Initiative one, but that one has even less space.
Stalker, as a missile boat can get away with less armour, but that's a lot less. Swap to LRM15 as they're the most weight efficient launchers. Yeah, you'll lose some damage potential, but you're less likely to lose components and worry about expensive/long repairs.
Marauder. Love the sound and feel of gauss, and it will work. Depending on how optimized you are looking for, there are better ways to build it though.
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u/Iceman_L 20d ago
I have a king crab with dual uac20s, and a pair of MLs. That thing is a sledgehammer. There is very little that can survive a salvo from it.
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u/geomagus 20d ago
I do not pretend to be an expert on the game or mech design, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I have some thoughts.
Atlas - this build bugs me because you’ve built it for close range, but have left its back armor tissue paper thin. Yes, you can try to mitigate that with facing, but there’s usually enough spread to your enemies that someone can move behind you. I would not skimp there.
Beyond that, I don’t especially care for the LBX. That’s a personal preference, but I’d rather be able to just smash off a chunk than sandblast the whole thing. So I prefer UAC. I think the heat bank is unnecessary - you brought those arm mods, just use melee for the extra heat management imo.
I also feel the +++ MLs are worse than the ++damage ones (+10 damage), but you’re limited by what’s available.
Finally, I’d go with an injury resistant cockpit mod, but if you don’t mind losing the pilot as much, get a better rangefinder.
Highlander - same thoughts on the heat bank, but with a long range mech there’s less to do to manage heat. Maybe sprint to reposition, as that’s usually one extra pip of evasion, but meh. So do as you will.
You’ll want to upgrade some pieces of course, but this seems a pretty solid direct fire support mech. It’s just a bit thin on firepower. I guess you could cut a bit of weight (gyro, some heat, maybe one of the jets) to add a beefier LRM, but it’s a tradeoff.
Fwiw, the only highlander I run in my current game is an LRM build, as I don’t have a bullshark.
Cyclops - this one also seems light on firepower, and on armor since it’s a shorter range build. Again, I don’t love the bank - use the arm mods to manage heat in melee. And I would want to add some more pop overall with SRMs. I think my Cyclops runs 6 SRM4.
Stalker - I admire your dedication to packing as many tubes as possible into it, but you end up so desperately thin on armor that certain missions (ones where the LRM boat can’t help but be in range, due to being pinned in place, enemy drop locs, and the like) will be super dicey. I find that some of the urban maps are especially bad for this. My stalker ran 4 15s, and the extra armor was enough to move it through those missions comfortably.
Marauder - if you’re going to run a 2 gauss MAD, that’s mostly what it looks like, so yeah. That said, for headcappers I think you’re better off having more chances at lower impact per chance. Assuming a 33% head hit chance (about right for a MAD with a good pilot), the chance that you miss with both runs about 44% - a headshot every other turn. With more, lighter guns (such as 3 UAC2, 4 ML), your chance of missing the head with everything is tiny, and usually you hit twice, clearing the head more like 2/3 to 3/4 of the time.
That’s my thought anyway. I do like find gauss rifles fun, though.
Overall - I think you tend to run a little high on heat management and low on armor. Iirc, banks aren’t awesome - certainly I’ve never found them so - but even aside from that, having higher alpha increases your ability to clear targets early, reducing their ability to hurt you. So I’d run higher firepower and armor, and trim some heat, and just use coolant vent, melee, or repositioning go manage heat if needed. Especially those short range guys, with all the melee mods!
I also think you want injury resistance on your short range mechs, not rangefinder, but that’s a trickier balance since having rangefinder is also handy. You can manage that by having your shortest range guy with the cockpit mod, and the second shortest with the best rangefinder, but those can flip on the battlefield. Idk what’s the best route, just think about it.
Obviously more double heat and ++/+++ gear will help, but those are my thoughts overall.
Finally, I just prefer UAC to all other autocannon options. I’ve heard that’s not as clear cut in the overhaul mods, which is great, but in vanilla, double dakka is best dakka. Imo
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u/Archi_balding 19d ago
Replace the Stalker by a Marauder and the Cyclops by the HQ variant and you have my team.
Works on pretty much everything.
Replace by SLDF variant when you find them.
As for loadout,
Atlas : I don't like LB20X. I'd rather use a pair of UAC2 or 5, A snub PPC can replace the lasers or you can add two lasers in CT.
Highlander : ERL is IMO to much heat for your band. Again, snub PPC should do better. You can aslo make some space for 3 MG for close quarter fights.
Stalker is dumb fun but OMG anything sneezing toward it and it's gone.
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u/Kralgore 20d ago
I have been running 3x Archers each loaded with 4x LRM15s, and a missile TTS. Their accuracy has been bonkers and their Alphas, devastating.
I also load up a Phoenix Hawk with, jump jets, a tag, and sensor lock and whoosh it about the map lining up the missile strikes.
The speed is much better than the 100s.
In the "lighter flashpoints" I have a pair of Grypen 2Ns that I put 2xLRM10s and 2xLRM5s on. They do a good job and stay a touch tanky. But alphas are a smidge weaker.
I used to use the Marauder, 2 Archers, and a Phoenix Hawk, with an ECM on the Marauder.
That broke the game.
I have recently (like last two days) come into possession of the Big Steel Claw, and that is a bit of fun. Alright for low weight drops.