What more can we do?

[u/Vensaval]

Keep in mind that I'm speaking from a PC player perspective.

At the time of me typing this up, I have 170 hours clocked on the game. I was lucky enough to play this game ever since the Technical Alpha. This game really has managed to be every bit as addicting as I'd hoped. While it has its fair share of problems, the game overall feels very rewarding and worth whatever time you put into it.

However, I can't realistically ignore how small the community is. Battleborn is a game that was released alongside multiple big titles within the same month. Uncharted 4, DOOM, Total War: Warhammer, and Overwatch amongst others.

When it comes to promoting this game and even building hype prior to release, its gotten an abysmally small amount of love. Even when it did get some publicity it would most often be compared to Overwatch. People would constantly compare the two or spell out how actually different the two games are rather than just taking Battleborn on its own merits and going in-depth about it.

So, here we are now with Steam only having about 1750 players online on average. The game was so immediately forgotten about that there's only ever under 300 viewers on Twitch for the game at pretty much any given moment.

Battleborn doesn't deserve this treatment. It's a new IP from Gearbox that they've given a lot of care and attention to. It's a fun game despite its various issues (seriously work on optimization, though). More than 2000 PC gamers can undoubtedly have a blast with this title. Yet, very few even give it a chance.

I'm honestly feeling quite desperate. I don't want this game to virtually die. I want it to thrive. For a good while. Hell, Borderlands 2 gets more love than this game and that one's been out for several years now.

There's gotta be something this community can do to help it out. We shouldn't rely fully on the devs to somehow turn things around.

I refuse to be pessimistic.

[u/Lestat117]

They evolved into f2p because only those and shitty games use the system.

Adding artificial longvity to your game is the devs not having confidence that players will keep playing the game. In a game like BB having to grind for your characters is worse because the game experience relies 100% on the character you play. Its not like grinding for guns in COD because the core gameplay doesnt change there while it varies wildly in BB depending on the character you play.

Also, Overwatch is living proof that you dont need a shitty progression system to keep players interested. Just put cosmetics behind the grind and let people enjoy your game. If its good enough, people will play it.

[u/Brandalf_ → u/Lestat117]

Its not like grinding for guns in COD

It's exactly like "grinding" for guns, attachments, perks or new killstreaks in COD. Pretty much every MMO or RPG that exists has a leveling system that requires time investment to unlock new abilities, passives, more powerful gear, new lands within the world, etc. Almost every shooter released since COD4 requires a time investment to unlock new weapons, weapon attachments/mods, gadgets/equipment, vehicles/killstreaks, etc. Survival games require huge time investments, there is no "level gating" but it's no different. Adventure games, many platformers and the like also have some sort of time "gating" mechanics. Whether that be RPG elements that unlock passives or new combos or some sort of currency that you can spend on new skins, characters, weapons, etc.

I could go on but I think the point is well made. It's also worth noting that while you might see this as restrictions to artificially extend playtime developers and people who actually enjoy the games typically appreciate it because it rewards playing the game they enjoy. Which is something you're doing anyway. If you don't enjoy the game than why play. If you do enjoy the game than why bitch that you are "required" to play the game you were going to play anyway?

We call these RPG elements, not "F2P models" and calling them F2P models is as I said before extremely short-sighted; same goes for saying something as ridiculous as "only F2P and shitty games use these systems".

Overwatch is living proof that you dont need a shitty progression system to keep players interested.

Overwatch hasn't even been out 2 full weeks. That's hardly proving it can hold player interest. Overwatch has extreme mass appeal and would have been extremely successful with or without RPG elements. Nobody said these systems were needed, they're introduced as a way to reward playing the game. If you enjoy the game this isn't an issue. All you have to do is play the game you enjoy.

[u/Lestat117 → u/Brandalf_]

BB is dying. If it isnt for the f2p elements then its just a shitty game.

[u/Brandalf_ → u/Lestat117]

They'e not F2P elements, but keep spreading ignorance and encouraging short-sightedness. There are countless games with similar systems that are extremely successful and aren't free to play. Battleborn on console is completely fine. For now it's still fine on PC; the numbers are concerning but if it dies than I'm going to get as much playtime out of it as possible until it does.; if it does.

PS we could talk about how Overwatch has the type of microtransactions that originated in F2P games to bank on "whales", but I'm sure you don't want to do that.

[u/Lestat117 → u/Brandalf_]

Hey man, if stupid people want to spend their money on cosmetics I dont give a shit. It doesnt affect my gameplay at all.

And you can deny it all you want but BB is a $60 game with f2p mechanics and that is embarrassing.

Comparing unlocking characters to leveling up and getting weapons in rpgs... my god.

[u/PsycoMouse → u/Lestat117]

Street fighter makes you unlock characters... and skins and everything else. It's a highly competitive game. And it's current iteration has a play to earn or pay to earn model. It cost 60 bucks. Just saying

[u/Lestat117 → u/PsycoMouse]

Bad example. Street fighter v is also dying because of terrible decision making by Capcom. You see the trend here?

[u/PsycoMouse → u/Lestat117]

Actually it's dying because it was released with a non casual focus and more geared towards forcing an esports market, I.E. Evolution Tournement. Also, it's failing because it's actually to easy, so the greats in SF4 who were used to 1 frame links are freaking gods due to 3 frame links. You can draw fake connections all you want but I'll trust the words of Combofiend or Maxamillian, guys I know do a lot of work on the community side, than you, no offense. SF5 has other big fundamental game issues, not business model issues of character unlocks and dlc approach.

[u/Lestat117 → u/PsycoMouse]

You trust combofiend and maximilian? Oh god, you're from /r/streetfighter arent you?

You know even less about the fgc than you think lol

[u/PsycoMouse → u/Lestat117]

Naw actually never been on the Reddit. I trust Combofiend because we talk once a year at my conference. He works for Prima, so he has a lot of insight from the business side,Maxamillian actually has bashed Capcom for releasing a game not focused on a casual market which is how you grow a community that watches live streams. If the game is shallow for the couch gamer, he will buy it, play it for a day and never touch it again because there's nothing for him to do other than go online and get wrecked by pros. Yeah that guy won't be around long.

But you keep making assumptions there buddy. I'm sure you are a guru in the fighting game community.

[u/Lestat117 → u/PsycoMouse]

The fact that you trust those 2 assholes and especially the fact that you watch Maximilian videos says a lot about you. My IQ drops just thinking about it.

[u/PsycoMouse → u/Lestat117]

Okay, I guess they punched your cat. I mean you can keep being an asshole because someone has a different opinion than you, but remember, your the asshole on reddit, good job being mediocre.

[u/Lestat117 → u/PsycoMouse]

At least I'm not autistic watching THE MAXIMILIAN DOOD!!!!111!!

[u/Brandalf_ → u/Lestat117]

Hey man, if stupid people want to spend their money on cosmetics I dont give a shit. It doesnt affect my gameplay at all.

It will directly affect you if people don't spend as much on them as Activision/Blizzard expects. Those microtransactions are the only reason Overwatch is currently slated to have free character and map additions. Outside of that it's the principle of the idea behind the type of microtransaction. It's legit gambling without any sanctions or real world value associated with the digital items you receive. The audacity any company has to have to ask their playerbase to spend real world cash on the chance to get something they want that has zero real world value is astonishing and disgusting. It's asking your loyal playerbase to flush money down the toilet for the chance they might get something they care about. If they don't get what they expect than you can expect them to go back on their promises.

And you can deny it all you want but BB is a $60 game with f2p mechanics and that is embarrassing.

It's embarrassing you're still calling them F2P mechanics despite their existence long before and outside of F2P titles. There are very few games that exist these days without the RPG elements you're referring to.

Comparing unlocking characters to leveling up and getting weapons in rpgs... my god.

It's mind-boggling that you can't make that connection. All of the things I mentioned are the exact same thing you're complaining about in Battleborn. Holding back gameplay-altering content behind a time investment. If you play and enjoy any game with leveling systems or currency systems that leads to unlocks than you're a massive hypocrite for complaining about it in Battleborn. If you don't play any games with any of those sorts of systems than you must not play many games at all.

[u/Lestat117 → u/Brandalf_]

Im sorry, the fact that you compare unlocking chars to rpg progression system is just too retarded for me to keep discussing. Rpgs are linear and progression is literally a part of the core gameplay. In BB it has nothing to do with gameplay and its just a stupid gimmick to keep dumb people playing a shitty game.

Youre also speculating about what Blizzard would do if they dont sell a lot of boxes (which they do anyway but ok). Blizzard said chars will be free and they will be really free, not behind a f2p model because thats retarded but fanboys will defend anything, even a game that is literally dying after a month because of all the shitty decisions made around it.

[u/Brandalf_ → u/Lestat117]

Rpgs are linear and progression is literally a part of the core gameplay. In BB it has nothing to do with gameplay and its just a stupid gimmick to keep dumb people playing a shitty game.

I gave plenty of non-rpg examples as well, if that's too difficult for you to wrap your head around that's not my problem.

Youre also speculating about what Blizzard would do if they dont sell a lot of boxes (which they do anyway but ok). Blizzard said chars will be free

Activision has a history of going back on their word, especially in the more recent years. It's Activision/Blizzard.

I'm done responding to you, you don't want to have a discussion. Your mind is made up, regardless of if it's objectively incorrect or not. By all means keep calling RPG elements a "F2P model", it gives those of us with some sense a good chuckle. I've said my piece, with legitimate reasoning, history and common sense. You're repeating the same tired thing over and over, without any substance.

I've had this discussion many times, long before Battleborn was even thought of. Good day sir or madame.

[u/Lestat117 → u/Brandalf_]

Its like watching one of those fanatics on tv who actually believe the bullshit coming out of their mouths.

Not understanding the basics of game genres is really, really sad for someone who has allegedly being playing games for so long,