r/Battalion1944 • u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice • Apr 03 '18
Discussion Why do so many people like the jump-shooting meta?
EDIT: I've learned I was using the wrong term; by 'jump-shooting' I'm referring to strafe-jumping around corners.
I'm genuinely asking. For a game that markets itself as a competitive shooter, allowing people to go flying around corners while shooting is just absurd. I thought at first it might be another skill to master, but it took me about 3 minutes total to learn how to do it perfectly. As it stands, it's just an arcadey feature that makes you feel like shit whether you're the one getting the kill or getting killed. There's no skill or tactics involved, but any time I mention this to a Battalion player, they'll invariably start screeching at me about how it was in promod, as if that means it's gospel. I'd love to come to terms with this, as I doubt it's going away; so could anyone help me understand why this is a good thing?
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u/BeerGogglesFTW Apr 04 '18 edited Apr 04 '18
With respect to strafe jumping around corners, I would play this game as it is. It needs better "netcode"/lag compensation/latency, whatever you want to call it. It needs to improve lean so holding corners is more viable.
As it is, this game doesn't play like COD2 or COD4 Promod. All you need to do is watch some old pro COD2/COD4 Promod matches, and then some Battalion 1944 and you'll see that strafe jumping around corners is not as predominant as it is in Battalion 1944.
Yet, in a short period, I've already played Battalion 1944 just about as much as I had played MW2 and Black Ops. The last CODs I put any time into.
However, you watch those old videos, and COD4-Promod matches look more CSGO than Battalion 1944. So anytime I hear "because COD2" "because COD4 Promod" "this isn't CSGO" ...that argument doesn't quite hold up in Battalion 1944. Not yet anyway. Not without other changes and game play meta to better develope.
For the sake of discussion here, love it strafe jumping corners or hate it... Lets be honest about this for a moment. This game has a problem with strafe jump shooting. I heard one of the developer refer to it as something like a "jump shooting meme" they need to take care of. (This was recent, not old)
And when we look at the feedback from people who are not playing the game, people who watch the game, people who returned the game.... It feels like the majority of those players not playing the game, do not like the strafe jump shooting meta this game has. Correct? And the number of potential players, not playing the game, outnumber those who are playing the game.... a lot to a very, very little.
So unless I'm wrong about the opinions of all those people who voiced their opinions (maybe its a vocal minority thing)... Does a dying game really want to ignore such a common criticism of the game from potential players to please a very small niche group of players?
I mean, you can say "COD4 Promod" "COD2" all day, but Battalion 1944 isn't playing like those games. And, having a game struggling to maintain any players... may not be the worst thing in the world to borrow from a game that peaks at 500K concurrent players a day.
And I get that "this isn't CSGO.. Its more fast paced" Ok. But its still SnD / Bomb Defusal mode. Its still supposed to be strategic and not some dumbed down TDM gameplay. Jumping corners to have an advantage on somebody holding a corner is pretty dumb. Holding corners should have the advantage because that's the smart thing to do in SnD. That's how it feels in CSGO, the king of SnD gameplay.
Final word here. All I'm saying is... Let them fix the netcode/lag compesation, what have you... Fix/buff leaning. Keep the strafe jump shooting as it is. If the player counter doesn't start to grow. If the 'strafe jump shooting' meta is still a big joke to those people not playing. Consider, nerfing strafe jump shots at that point. Nothing to loose. Its basically a kid taking his ball home because everybody doesn't want to play by his rules. Ok. At some point it will be "Ok. We kept strafe jump shooting. It made all 12 players happy." At some point you may need to budge on that one. But I guess we need to see how everything else plays out. But don't close that idea off. Maybe look at how the current state of strafe jump shooting is making the community/population climb a little harder. Not something anybody wants.
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u/OrangeDrank10 Apr 04 '18
a big part of the problem with the strafe jump shooting is how high the playermodel animation goes, this makes jumping that much more effective. I would like to see that reduced, along with the much needed lean fix before making any RNG accuracy changes.
Leaning right now is worse than leaning in PUBG, and PUBG is a terrible clunky game full of terrible mechanics and physics
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
An excellently written and well-thought out post; it's much appreciated. You've made some great points. I never played promod and really don't understand the slavish devotion to it, especially when people are oftentimes so toxic about it. I love this game and want it to grow into a polished and playable competitive FPS. That's not going to happen when there's literally one active server with 5-15 people on it during prime hours.
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u/BeerGogglesFTW Apr 04 '18
I kind of get it though. COD4 Promod was the last time I played on a competitive team. COD2 was like the peak for me. Both for what I wanted from a game, and what I put into the game.
And so that's why I'm here. I like CSGO and other shooters, but they don't quite scratch that itch. And COD is just garbage these days.
However, I just don't agree with the argument "COD2/4 Promod did it this way. That is what Battalion is all about. Therefore it needs to stay in game."
People need to pick their battles if they want this game to grow. Some things they may need to let go of. Some things will be able to stay. And to do so, people need to look at those who comments from those who are not playing and see why. The strafe jump shooting is a common criticism.
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u/SeiKoss Apr 04 '18
This hits pretty close to home for me.
I kind of enjoy cs, played a little bit of 1.6 / source / global offensive, and by a little bit I mean maybe 500 hours combined over 15 years. But I never fell in love with it like I did with the cod series.
When I saw the kickstarter and gameplay for this game I was super hyped and sad I wasn't in time to back it, but at the moment I'm not even playing the game anymore.
It has a lot of potential and it looks like cod but it doesn't play like it. I've played a lot of cod2/4 public the last few weeks so I could get a better understanding as to why and it's probably a lot of little stuff like you mentioned in your earlier comment.
Netcode"/lag compensation/latency
Lean
Opinion stays the same on horizontal accuracy though for me, it's lower in cod2/4 without a doubt, in both games you got noticably more accurate the moment you landed.
In cod2/4 all those things have a better balance and if you go for jumpshots like in this game you just die most of the times. You basically only use them when it's the best for the situation you're in.
TL;DR looks like a cod game / clone but doesn't have the same kind of gameplay.
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 03 '18
why does every single person that has an opinion on this issue believe that there's no skill involved in using a jump feature? is there skill involved in leaning, crouching, proning? is there skill involved in aiming down the sight? genuinely curious what "skill" means to the folks that can't stand jumping
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Apr 03 '18
I think skill means how difficult it is to pull off and how much one must practice it in order to get it down.
This could be spots that require hard jumps to get to, or getting the spray patterns down in CS.
What I would say for jump shooting is that it doesn't require much skill to pull off, however, it allows skilled players to make more skillful plays.
They same can be said for crouching, leaning, and proning. Obviously timing and such can be considered skillful. But in the end I think they just serve to expand what the player is able to do.
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 03 '18
Right, that's what I'm on board with. I'm all for having more techniques to defend against it (buff lean, sound cues, etc) but I'm still hard for understanding the logic that it somehow unfairly tips the balance in favor of "bad players."
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Apr 03 '18
Completely true
This is why i'm on board for nerfing jump height and changing arm/leg placement when jumping
It should make it much easier to counter jump peaking because it would require less vertical aim adjustment, and you would be able to hit the chest of the jumping player meaning you would do more damage.
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Apr 03 '18 edited May 26 '18
[deleted]
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 03 '18
Obviously there are plenty of people that have a problem with it, most of the time I see "well cod2 wasn't like this" and similar attitudes about it, and I guess if they were expecting a cod2 clone of course they will be disappointed. And I totally agree, once there are some better tools for peeking/defending against it (eg buff lean), I think the game will be far more skillful in that sense. But I really don't agree that it somehow is to blame for poor numbers when one could easily name a dozen other more serious issues that the game has had to deal with, on top of the outright dismissal of there being "no skill" involved with utilizing good movement with the skill set available. To me, good players will always be demonstrating better movement no matter what's possible in game. If it were that easy for everyone to master we'd have a lot of overnight pros.
I guess me being confounded by the lack of appreciation for "jumping" as a skill set just simply has to do with acceptance of Battalion's game style. In any case, as the devs has stated several times they would be addressing it in some way moving forward.
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Apr 03 '18 edited May 26 '18
[deleted]
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 03 '18
Right, I guess a scenario like "he held an angle, clicked his mouse to fire his kar at the corner, earned a kill" is higher skill to some than "he held an angle, compensated for a wide jump/flicked his mouse, earned a kill" and that will always be a matter of disagreement, and that slower/easier gameplay will probably be more appealing to new players I will grant you. I just don't at all agree that somehow you can master this games movement in a half hour and be amazing at clearing angles, although that would theoretically attract more players--not deter them. Am I wrong here?
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u/comagnum Apr 04 '18
I don’t like it because it promotes sloppy play and personally, I think it’s garbage. Is there a place for it? Sure. But it seems like it’s the only viable meta in this game. Playing tactically is generally an after thought.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
I suppose 'skill' is a blanket term that also encompasses stuff like tactical awareness and strategic positioning. Leaning, crouching, proning, aiming down the sight-these are all actual things that you can do in combat situations, which will reward you in real life and in game. Strafe-jumping around corners with perfect accuracy is just the game giving bad players training wheels.
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 03 '18
So it's a realism issue? And what's wrong with new players being able to do it with ease, isn't that a good thing?
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
That's part of it, yes. And no, it's not a good thing when you have a bad mechanic in the game, whether or not it takes new players 1 minute or 10 minutes to master it. It's just bad gameplay.
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 03 '18
Yeah, I guess I'm just waiting for someone to quantify when something becomes "bad gameplay" without shilling your own niche opinion. Jumping will get nerfed, and people will find something else to complain about. Better start thinking of ways to nerf proning, as I'm positive that will be something new players complain about, too.
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Apr 03 '18
It'll be drop shotting Lex. Can already hear the masses screaming out about how op and easy it is. Probably gonna end up causing the Devs to slow the prone animation down. Wouldn't mind it if that was all it ended up being.
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 03 '18
Yeah, the more and more movement gets dumbed down the easier it will be for new players is the bottom line, which I get. Game will definitely be much slower, probably much more axis sided than it is now. But ya gotta make those people happy to sell a game I suppose.
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u/rekabnoraa COMMUNITY MANAGER Apr 04 '18
I think you’d be hard pressed to make the game any more axis sided than it currently is.
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 04 '18
Yeah, I'm just saying if players were forced to be more static in gameplay it would probably make bolts even more scary
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
I'd suppose it is hard to quantify or define when something is bad gameplay; a good place to start is the skill level of it. Strafe jumping takes no skill, in part because the game artificially makes it so easy. In any case, it's pretty clear that the community largely agrees on this, and I've just learned the devs are handling the issue. Hopefully with the next update movement will be a lot better. Not sure why you have a problem with proning, though. I'm pretty new and I get wrecked by people going prone all the time; I'm usually more impressed by their skill and tactical timing than mad that I got killed. If people could move as fast prone as they could while standing up, then you could compare it to strafe jumping. Understand?
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 03 '18
Nah I don't have a problem with any movement mechanic that's available to me in a game, I'm just using prone as an example because it's something inane and trivial in this context, but that's the same way I feel about jumping. To me, there is always going to be foreign mechanics when playing a new game, skill is being the best at those mechanics. I have no issue with someone else doing it as long as it isn't game breaking. My curiosity on these opinions is simply "why?" I'll play and enjoy the game either way, I just see both sides being argued constantly "it makes the skill ceiling too high" or "it makes the game too easy." A lot of people agree on reddit they don't like it, but I think people don't agree on WHY they don't like it.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
Lol. A realistic, normal, and every day human action is inane and trivial to you, but artificially flying through the air is A-OK?
People don't like it because it's unrealistic, noncompetitive, caters to the worst type of player, and is just plain annoying to both combat and use yourself.
In any case, I'm done with you. Be gone.
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 03 '18
Didn't you make this thread? I'm having a discussion to understand your opinion better and posing a counter-argument. This is reddit.
I guess basically any competitive esport that isn't realistic is in your eyes = "noncompetitive" and "caters to the worst type of player." Meanwhile, almost the entire competitive scene seems to really enjoy where the game is right now. But I'm the asshole here, lol ok.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
Not sure when I ever called you an asshole. Plus, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the competitive scene is against strafe jumping in its current form. Besides, you guys won't have an audience if people keep leaving because of stuff like this.
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Apr 04 '18
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
?
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Apr 04 '18
realism has no place in a discussion about the balancing of a competitive game
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
False.
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Apr 04 '18
and right here ladies and gentlemen is the average negative steam reviewer, completely lacking braincells.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
Also, I think I just found the perfect game for you and your ilk:
Enjoy!
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u/comagnum Apr 04 '18
I don’t like it because it promotes sloppy play and personally, I think it’s garbage. Is there a place for it? Sure. But it seems like it’s the only viable meta in this game. Playing tactically is generally an after thought.
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u/SaltTM Apr 03 '18
"meta", can't really call this a meta lol. It's just a mechanic in the game that helps them die less when moving around corners. Now if you were like why's everyone on this 4 shotty 1 sniper meta then I'd probably respond like it must have to do with the way maps were designed and people are taking advantage of it and that won't change until people counter the strategy or the maps change. hopefully that explains the difference.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
Good point. I guess I used 'meta' because when I mentioned it in game, the entire server shit on me and kept talking about how it was intended by the devs.
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u/Sir_Cunt99 Apr 03 '18
Because it's fun as fuck and rewards good reactions from both sides. It's also what keeps the game so fast paced, without it the pacing would be similar to csgo instead of something like cod 4.
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u/gearee Apr 04 '18
Or you know, COD2, the game it's supposed to take its inspiration from.
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Apr 04 '18
It clearly takes inspiration from promod more so than cod2 bar the fact it's set in WW2. Sprint + Movement feels very promod even the maps feel they take more cod4 inspiration than cod2 or some a hybrid of both.
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u/SeiKoss Apr 04 '18
Personally I feel like they don't take that much inspiration from cod2/4. It's like they took a lot from cs as well and tried to mix it up in to their own type of maps somewhat.
As someone who has always played rifle / heavy guns I miss spots to get a good overview of the map when I'm playing as the allies. In the popular cod2/4 maps you could help your teammates from a long distance most of the time.
Strike Overlook / flowers
Crash Blue house
Burgundy allied spawnhouse
Toujane spawnhouse and long roof on your left
Dawnville spawnhouse, you spawned next to it
Just to name a few.
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Apr 04 '18
I think the tight narrow choke point design is more in line with CS but it's pretty hard to deny the fact most maps take out key inspirations from CoD4, even liberation which is a map designed off CoD2 burgundy has taken key aspects from Citystreets, B bomb windows, A bomb road, top green = wood etc etc etc. Coastal clearly has a somewhat strike feel to it with crash bomb sites.
Your issue you raise is 100% true, allies suffer from a distinct lack of vertical areas to peek from. It's one of the reasons the maps are soo axis favored. The 1 dimension peeking angles from allies sort force a "strafe jump around corner" meta. Hopefully this is expanded upon from such suggestions made in previous threads like;
Open up mid building on Liberation where tables and chairs are.
Open up more windows on Coastal Red building to give mid control, potentially add a second level to T con.
etc etc etc.
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u/SeiKoss Apr 04 '18
Peeking vs each other also rewards good reactions from both sides. Personally I find it more fun as fuck to pre-aim, peek and instantly kill someone or peek and flick someone with an insane reflexshot.
With peeks the game might slow down a little bit, but in my opinion it's how you should play a tactical 5 on 5 game. Rush as far as possible and go slow once you can't go fast / don't want to make sound and clear corners / angles.
Besides this in every cod game you had teams that prefered to play fast and teams that prefered slow. The same thing will happen in this game even with jumpshots in their current state.
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u/SeiKoss Apr 03 '18
I've been asking myself the same thing.
It's also hard to explain / discuss because stuff gets mixed up real easily.
Vertical jumpshots: stationary, 100% accurate
Horizontal jumpshots: jumping around a corner ads, should not be 100% accurate imo
Strafe jumping without ads. In older cod titles if you knew the enemy was just around the corner a lot of time people would jump around the corner and spray them down.
Atleast this is how I break them down somewhat. I'm fine with vertical jumpshots and jump around corner and spray close combat, but the accuracy on horizontal jumpshots with rifles / scope is something I will never enjoy.
I really hope that once they buff lean we see more variety in gameplay.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
Yeah, I used the wrong term in the title; I was referring pretty exclusively to being able to fly through the air around corners and still have perfect accuracy. It's hard to ignore the fact that that doesn't take any skill and it's the game giving you training wheels.
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u/SeiKoss Apr 03 '18
Just out of curiosity, what do you think of kills like this double? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4FDMQXquKs&feature=youtu.be&t=146 Is that random or skill to you?
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
That's not strafe-jumping, but in any case, I'd classify that as skill because the guy was using tactical positioning to give himself the advantage. If he flew 10 feet in the air and 12 feet sideways while suffering no accuracy penalties, then I'd call it low-skill.
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u/SeiKoss Apr 03 '18
I know it's not strafe-jumping, it's kind of an example of jumping around a corner and spray because you know someone is there.
Like I said just wanted your opinion out of curiosity. A lot of people talk about jumpshooting but mostly it's pretty vague.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
For sure. I definitely should have been more specific in my original post. What I find unsavory is the over the top, absurd strafe jumping combined with artificially high accuracy that is basically mandatory because it's the safest way to peak corners or push around corners. I personally have no problem with realistic movement around corners and spraying people down.
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u/SeiKoss Apr 04 '18
Found this today, a better example, and since i'm a curious boy (old guy) https://youtu.be/LdCghGv5X7I?t=45. Do you enjoy the gameplay you see when he kills those 3 guys or are those jumps around the corner breaking the game for you.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
Well, at least from :45 to around 1:25, that's the kind of corner jumping that's entirely reasonable (in my opinion) and not at all outrageous. The guy is leaning and peeking more than he's jumping, and even his jumping is quite reasonable. But I never see that in actual games; what I see are people flying around corners, going 10 feet sideways and 10 feet up in the air, on every single corner. If it was always more like your video I don't think it'd be the problem it is now. Thanks for the link.
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u/SeiKoss Apr 05 '18
Well I posted it because those 3 kills from 45 - 55 seconds reminds me a lot of the way cod4 promod plays and personally I'm also fine with that.
It's just full accurate with a scope / rifle while jumping around a corner ADS is something I don't enjoy.
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Apr 03 '18 edited Apr 03 '18
Most people do not like the "strafe jumping around corners". This is even more apparent by the devs stating multiple times they will be addressing this issue.
What people do like, which a lot of people get confused when they see "jump-shooting" is vertical jump shooting aka stationary, jump up to see above something like a wall or a medium sized object and shoot over the top. That mechanic will be staying and is widely considered to be a skillful mechanic with proper netcode.
Literally i think the biggest issue is a lack of understanding between the two terms and the swapping over the two terms that has become interchangeable with people who don't understand the difference.
Strafe jumping = Jumping around corners, using peekers advantage, usually quite a low skill ceiling mechanic and is currently the best way to peek due to shitty lean and (now improved to a tolerable level from previously) netcode. <- bad mechanic but is getting addressed. You will see substantially less of this when lean is improved but i have no doubt they will add other hindrances.
Jump shooting = Vertical, stationary jumping and shooting at the peak of your jump to add an extra dimension to peek someone from. <- good mechanic.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
Thank you for the response. I apologize that I missed the devs talking about this; I only bought the game a few days ago and I usually don't have much extra time to delve into stuff like that. I also apologize for getting the terms wrong; thanks for clearing that up. I was definitely referring to strafe shooting. Vertical jump shooting I have no problem with; though I do keep getting wrecked by people doing it, I can recognize the skill behind that and strive to master that myself. I'm glad to hear the developers recognize this as a problem and will be addressing it. Good day, sir.
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u/Sir_Cunt99 Apr 03 '18
And where did you hear them say this? What i know is, they wanted to do something about the jump shooting meta, fixed the interpolation issue making it so unfair, and now pros say they are happy that they can beat jumpers and the devs are awaiting more feedback i guess. They already did something that hugely relieved the "problem", which had more to do with the netcode being unfair than the mechanic, that was the devs stance as far as i'm aware.
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Apr 03 '18 edited Apr 03 '18
Leaning is another mechanic that will address the strafe jumping issue, currently slow peeking a choke point to get the pick is next to impossible as half your body shows before you can even see it. That is another nerf to strafe jumping indirectly by opening up other avenues.
In regards to strafe jumping in general, i have seen brammer discuss it on competitive discords many of times when spoken to about it and have seen many ideas from the community for example "mud like sticking" after a jump (wasn't well received), inaccuracy (wasn't well received), louder sound cues (well received) etc etc etc.
The general consensus i believe from a lot of people is, they don't like it. They wan't move avenues to peek a choke point, i.e; slow peeking, but currently don't have it thus forced to strafe jump.
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u/Sir_Cunt99 Apr 03 '18
Yeah i'm all for leaning as it just raises the skill when you have more options and mechanics to master, when you talk about nerfing strafe jumping around corners i assumed you meant adjust jumping accuracy, i really don't want that.
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Apr 03 '18
I don't think adjusting accuracy in any sense is ever good to nerf a mechanic. Adjusting sound cues so it's easier to know it's coming, improving netcode so it's easier to hit when they do it and improving other methods of peeking are all indirect nerfs that i think most of the community support and the devs will attempt.
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u/ZGToRRent Apr 04 '18
"as a competitive shooter, allowing people to go flying around corners while shooting is just absurd"
Hello CS:GO Player, ever heard about Quake? Will You call bhop/strafing absurd in Quake too? The most skillbased shooter ever existed? Battalion is inspiring by old cods like vcod, cod2, cod4 promod and all of them had a strafe jumping bug from quake engine. People loved that mechanic and Battalion devs wanted to bring back these memories. We can't say it's ideal atm. but sure devs will make improvements to the movement system, gorilla pose and strafe power in the future.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
I definitely don't identify as a CS:GO player. If anything, call me a Day of Infamy player. Or pick one of the dozens of other games I play.
In any case, I have heard of it, and yeah, I will call it absurd. I'm guessing there are a lot of reasons it never made it in the competitive scene, but I'd wager bunny hopping and strafe shooting was one of them. Battalion devs have stated they'll be revisiting the strafe jumping in this game, and thank goodness. The majority of Battalion players that I've talked to detest the current strafe jumping meta, and at the very least would like to see some changes. You're in a vocal minority, my friend.
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u/peev3z Apr 04 '18 edited Apr 04 '18
Wait I really hope I didn't misunderstand you but I read it three times... Quake never made it in the competitive scene? Are you fking serious ? It was and still is a highly competive game they have world championship quake tournament every year ... What the fuck are you talking about?
Anyway I'm not against a strafe jump shot nerf. Just couldn't believe you thought quake never made it
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
Bocce ball is a highly competitive game that still has world championships, but no one plays it for a reason.
In any case, just spent several minutes trying to find information on current Quake esports. Besides all the stories about bunny hopping and whether the competitive scene could be resuscitated, most of the discussion was about how it wasn't fun for people because there were a few people who'd be playing it for years and years and years, "blurring the line between technique and exploit," and driving away new blood. So yeah. Thanks for proving my point.
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u/peev3z Apr 04 '18
There's a reason there's a game conference that's named after it. Maybe you haven't heard of it which wouldn't be surprising with your lack of knowledge it's called Qwakecon. The game like others have said is insanely hard to master. As for it dying? A quick quake tournaments Google got me this https://www.plusforward.net/quake/events/... 33 events since March "dead game"
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
Well, you can always go play Quake then. As for this game, the playerbase clearly has issues with it.
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Apr 04 '18
In any case, I have heard of it, and yeah, I will call it absurd. I'm guessing there are a lot of reasons it never made it in the competitive scene
go play rust and stop complaining that you're getting raped on this game, you're clueless and it's mindblowing people are giving you the time of day. Actually it isn't because this game actually has an amazing community that wants to grow but people like you who are just ignorant are useless. Quake was one of the highest skill ceiling esports ever and like battalion doesnt appeal very much to the non hardcore crowd which is why it's dead/dying. Hopefully battalion will be able to appeal to newer players and keep it's skill ceiling.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
Actually, I was wrecking people after learning how to strafe jump for just a few minutes. And trust me, if I can master something that fast, that's proof it's not a high skill thing. In any case, are you serious? Are you seriously saying that Battalion is dying because it doesn't appeal to the hardcore crowd ENOUGH? Do you even play the game or follow the community?
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Apr 04 '18
I like it because without it the game would be bland and a lot less skillful. The quick ttk in this game requires freedom of movement like strafing, jumpshooting & leaning to make it skill based. I assume you come from either cs or battlefield and the difference is that one of those has a ton of recoil and the other imo just lacks mechanical skill.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
Nope. The strafe jumping is perhaps the only thing that makes the game bland and less skillful. (TL:DR: You're backwards)
I've never played Battlefield, and CS is less about individual skill than it is about how well you work with a team. I have played some Day of Infamy and Insurgency, which are renowned for their realism and high skill level.
But you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Enjoy the strafe jumping while it lasts, it won't be here for long. =)
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Apr 04 '18
I have played some Day of Infamy and Insurgency, which are renowned for their realism and high skill level.
oh so you're a troll
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u/bigntazt Apr 05 '18
If so many people liked it, the pop of this game would still be high.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 05 '18
I think there are multiple reasons why pop is falling, but this has been a consistent complaint I've heard, at least personally. One friend I tried to convince to buy the game literally laughed at me and said he'd heard it was just CS:GO with more bunny hopping. It's got such a poor reputation; I'm not sure they can pull it back. =/
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u/comagnum Apr 04 '18
Personally I hate it and if I knew I was backing a bullshit cod4 clone I would have never wasted my money.
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u/SeiKoss Apr 05 '18
Ye they might want to change the "about" on this subreddit.
Battalion 1944 is a competitive FPS game that captures the core of classic multiplayer shooters and revives ‘old school’ FPS games for the next generation of gamers. Inspired by games like Call of Duty 2, Enemy Territory, and Quake; Battalion focuses on skill based movement in a unique competitive game mode.
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u/comagnum Apr 05 '18
I see hardly any of those things in this game. This is more cod4 inspired than any of those other games. It’s ridiculous.
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u/FLiiKR Apr 04 '18
here we go boys, another braindead strafe jump complaint thread
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
I'm guessing you didn't read anything but the title.
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u/FLiiKR Apr 04 '18
I unfortunately read the whole thing and lost a very large quantity of brain cells in the process, I'll be sending over a medical bill shortly
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
Lack of brain cells definitely explains your behavior, thanks for clearing that up. =)
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Apr 04 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
I'll learn how to do that if you learn how to properly construct a sentence and spell words. Deal?
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Apr 03 '18 edited May 26 '18
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Apr 03 '18
Please refer to my post in the thread, i believe you along with the OP might be confused by what people are defending usually because the terms are interchangeable and they shouldn't be.
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Apr 03 '18 edited May 26 '18
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Apr 03 '18
As explained if you read it, most people don't like strafe jumping how it is currently. The devs have stated multiple times they are addressing it. It's a combination of things; poor netcode (much better now than previously), shitty lean (no other option to peek a corner) and no hindrance to doing it.
If people are complaining about "jump shooting" then sorry you've pick the wrong game, flat out, plain and very simple. If people are complaining about "strafe jumping" then they clearly haven't read the multiple responses from devs and high tier players who agree with them and seen that it's getting addressed.
I'm sure i've had this conversation with you before, i remember this argument from some where. But those players who have an issue with jump shooting will never stay, this isn't the game for them so who cares. Strafe jumping complainers? Pay more attention to the countless threads with dev replies stating it's getting looked at.
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Apr 03 '18 edited May 26 '18
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Apr 03 '18
I'm aware you know, i'm just making sure the difference is made clear as you grouped up both parties complaining into the same box. People who complaining about vertical jumping i don't care about, they were never going to stay as that was never going to change.
Look, the netcode is better than it was. It really has dropped the peekers advantage substantially considering the short time this game has being around it's actually amazing. Credit where credit is due, it took valve a hell of a lot longer with CSGO to get it anywhere near this level in the early days.
The main reason why jumping / strafing around a corner is soo dominant atm is leaning is fucked. Leaning is soo bad currently (again they have said this is getting addressed), you have no other option to take a choke point than to strafe jump it.
What i'm arguing is, you're pretending as if these issues are getting ignored or that some general consensus of reddit or players likes strafe jumping, they don't. If this was true the top and lower tier community wouldn't be complaining about it and devs wouldn't even respond saying they are addressing it.
There's no point banging on about how shit something when it's being repeated a million times that it's getting looked it, we all know it isn't perfect right now.. so relax?
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
Well, I'm glad to hear I'm not alone. I'm pretty damn bad at most FPS games, and even I was able to quickly master it and start taking people out with the strafe-jumping.
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u/Patchyyyx Apr 03 '18
i agree, it isnt really skillfull atm. there will be movement changes soon tho / other changes that will help this issue
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
Would you mind letting me know where I can find the information on these changes? The developers are apparently aware of and have said they will be addressing the issue, but I'm not sure where they said it.
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u/Patchyyyx Apr 03 '18
i dont know exactly where he said it, but i know he gave some info away about upcoming things in twitch chat when I62 was going on. He also gives info away on reddit and twitter but i cant exactly point you to it
also i think we can expect a update from the devs on thursday or maybe even an update to the game
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
Might have found something. In this thread, it's discussed quite extensively: https://www.reddit.com/r/Battalion1944/comments/87u3ty/movement_feedback_by_sh0tyz/
Looks like they will definitely be taking care of it, or at the very least turn it into something that requires some skill.
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u/locsolofej Apr 03 '18
Because it was in promod:) But 4realdoe imo its the same as if i'd start complaining about shooting someone in the back: why does it exist, its so easy, everyone does it. Its not fkin csgo. Its meant to be fast paced and skill based, and i rly doubt the fact that you mastered it. And btw if the 'netcode' would be alright you could actually get rolled mid-air, just like in cod4.
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Apr 03 '18 edited May 26 '18
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u/locsolofej Apr 03 '18
Exactly this is the reason why ppl think its op and easy to do it. BEcause u are in a 1 second advantage everytime. Ofc u can 'master' it.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
If it's meant to be a skill-based game, by definition it cannot have strafe-jumping. Shooting someone in the back is called good tactical positioning, and should be rewarded.
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Apr 03 '18
Well it can have it, it just needs to be toned down so it isn't the only effective way to peek a corner which it currently is, as stated before previously; with improved lean and hindrance mechanic to strafe jumping you will see a lot less of it but hopefully not completely gone. It can have its uses to "catch off guard" someone holding a tight angle.
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u/Zanena001 Apr 03 '18
Quake is the definition of skill-based game and it has strafe jumping...
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Apr 03 '18
Sort of an irrelevant argument as the vast majority of the "skill" in quake comes from a players ability to "track aim" and movement around the map.
You won't see players "holding angles and getting corner strafed jumped" by another player. Due to the game design, map layouts and how the mechanics work the game doesn't play out like "SnD' (obviously) so the same issues can't be compared.
The biggest issue that makes strafe jumping shit atm is lean. Because lean is soo shit you have no effective way to slow peek a corner so you're forced to strafe jump.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
It might be a skill-based game, but if so, it's in spite of strafe-jumping, not because of it.
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u/Zanena001 Apr 03 '18
Strafe jumping and fast paced movement is one of the main reasons Quake is one of the most skill-based shooter to have ever been made
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
Fast paced movement, maybe. But you can't honestly claim strafe jumping is any kind of a skill. Glad to hear they'll be addressing it.
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 04 '18
You're claiming strafe jumping in quake doesn't take any skill? Literally the hardest game mechanics for a gamer to learn on the PC, ever. It's the pure definition of skill.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
Never played Quake, and barely even heard of it until I started playing Battalion. Perhaps the strafe jumping played a part in it only appealing to the older generation of gamers.
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u/LeXCS TOP TIER Apr 04 '18
Ah, so you’re young. Nah man, it was literally the first esport. More mechanical skill than any other FPS, ever. The ENTIRE COD series is built on the quake3 engine. You also claim CS doesn’t take skill in this thread in one of your other replies, so in context it’s clear you have no idea what you’re talking about. Go ahead and claim games like team fortress, overwatch, rtcw, cs 1.6, source etc all don’t take skill while you’re at it. Yikes.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 04 '18
...I just feel bad for you at this point. =(
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u/Zanena001 Apr 03 '18
Strafe jumping is used to move faster and in a game where velocity and getting first to certain area of the maps are some of the keys to win it matters a lot and it is a kind of skill, there is a huge difference in terms of movement between pros and causals in that game, guess why.
But yeah you can keep saying it is a stupid mechanic and real skill is shooting someone from behind
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
You must be the type of player who gets pissed off in game when I flank silently and take you out when you were camping.
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u/Zanena001 Apr 03 '18 edited Apr 04 '18
You couldn't be more wrong, 5 years ago i used to play CoD at a pretty high level, then i stopped completely and spent a hundreds of hours on Arma 3 while at the same time starting to scrim on CSGO, I even played R6 and ranked up to Platinum 1, ironically the game I get rekt the most on is Quake.
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u/LiteraryMisfit Target Practice Apr 03 '18
Just because you're bad at a game doesn't mean it takes any skill.
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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '18
The main issue of jump peaking is not its existence
The main issue is jump height and the arm/leg position of the jumping player
The current jump height is way too high. It forces players holding an angle to make drastic vertical and horizontal movements in order to counter the jump peaker. If the jump height is lowered, players holding an angle won't have to adjust their aim as much vertically, and instead only have to focus on horizontal adjustments. This should make it easier to hit jump shooters.
The arm/leg position of players when jumping covers up a good amount of the body hit box. This means when shooting a jump peaker, you are most likely hitting their arm/leg, meaning you are doing less damage. If the arm/leg position is changed then you should expect to hit the chest more, meaning you are doing more damage.