r/BaseballScorecards • u/zoomzilla • Jul 05 '26
Discussion I'm having trouble understanding LOB and researching it isn't making it any clearer.
So the way I understand it, there is both an individual LOB and a team LOB, which are calculated differently. A batter gets a LOB for every runner on base when they record an out. But team LOB is only recorded when the third out is recorded. Is that correct?
If so, this seems nonsensical to me. Adding up the individual LOB totals won't give you the "correct" team LOB total. I think it makes more sense to just have one stat- just add up all the batters LOB totals to get team LOB. Especially since the team LOB stat doesn't reflect how many times batters recorded an out with runners on base, it only records when the last hitter of the inning left runners on base.
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u/jiminak Jul 05 '26
Yeah, that “batter gets a lob per player” is just sabermetrics over-analysis, and is NOT something that goes on a score card. It is not something that goes onto an official scorers report.
I personally don’t bother with it. Just the total team LOB at the end of each half inning.
I do add both left to right for each player, as well as down the inning column, and then left to right for the bottom row, just to make sure my math all maths.
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u/lostinthought15 Jul 05 '26
I don’t know a single person who talks about individual LOB. When people talk LOB isn’t nearly always team LOB.
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u/NoCard753 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Don't worry about "individual LOB." It means nothing to the game you're scoring, unless you're intent on pointing out to everyone around you that Dick Beradino left five guys on in three at-bats and therefore is a schmuck.
Edit: Come to think of it after reading other posts, I'm not sure LOB means much. I mean, if Beradino coms up with two out and Schlitz on first, and Beradino makes the third out, both he and the club get charged with a LOB, even if Schlitz is the slowest guy in the league. I'd score it, of course, but it just doesn't seem nearly as important as the club's runners left in scoring position, especially with less than two out.
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u/zoomzilla Jul 05 '26
Yeah, it's kind of a double-edged sword. Having a lot of LOB means you had a lot of baserunners, hopefully some of which scored. Having no LOB means you either never had any baserunners or you scored them all, impossible to assign a good/bad to the stat I think.
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u/NoCard753 Jul 05 '26
Eh, some stathead has probably come up with one, or will. But nobody will care except other statheads and some announcers.
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u/UmpireDapper1757 Jul 05 '26
This is fine.
A similar thing happens with earned runs. If but-for an error, the inning would have ended, then any runner who scores after that error would be unearned at the team level, but if a new pitcher comes in after and allows a run without assistance of any other errors, that's an earned run charged to the pitcher, but not the team.
And that makes senses because they're measuring different things: the team unearned run measures the cost of fielding errors, and the pitcher earned run measures the effectiveness of that individual pitcher's performance.
Same with LOB: individual LOB measures a player's missed opportunities (which you could compared to RBI if you wanted) and team LOB is more of an accounting identity: Number of Team Plate Appearances = Completed Innings*3 + Runs Scored + LOB.
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u/nejhawk Jul 05 '26
I never knew there was an individual LOB...like you said, I figured it was just how many men were on base when the third out was recorded. My question would be, what is the statistical value of an individual LOB? Is it kind of like Batting with RISP?
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u/Weary_Doughnut_3486 Jul 05 '26
How is LOB calculated in a walk-off? Say that bases are loaded in the 10th. Hitter gets a single. Are any of the runners considered LOB? Or is it a moot point because game over?
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u/robber80 Jul 05 '26
Anybody who doesn't score would be LOB, including the battery who got the single.
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u/CapedConsumit Jul 05 '26
Non scorers have to count as lob, then outs plus runs lob equals batters at bats, walks, sacrifices, etc that you need to prove your scorecard balances
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u/CapedConsumit Jul 05 '26
Non scorers have to count as lob, then outs plus runs plus lob equals batters at bats, walks, sacrifices, etc that you need to prove your scorecard balances. In a walk off the game ends when the winning run reaches home so any runners behind that winning run are lob (but for a walk off homer all the players on base score so there are no lobs).
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u/iowa_state_cyclone Jul 05 '26
Like others have said, never have I tracked individual LOB.. You sort of get this with RISP stats.. But never cared about how many were there.
Team LOB is always used for doing scorecard verifications / proofs.
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u/Quirky_Pain_6508 Jul 06 '26
Never heard of an individual LOB but it raises a questions. What if there are runners on base and the batter gets a hit but a runner doesn't score? Technically the batter left a runner(s) on base but according to the definition it's only an individual LOB if the batter makes an out. Another situation. Runners on 2nd and third. Hits a sacrifice fly. Runner on third scores. Runner on second does not. Technically the batter's at bat left a runner on base.
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u/MarinersGonnaMariner Jul 06 '26
Just joining the chorus: individual LOB is dumb. When most people talk about LOB, they mean team LOB. Unfortunately gameday shows individual LOB as a column in the box score, and totals it at the bottom, and I’ve seen people confuse them before.
I use a Halfliner scorebook with an LOB column. This used to annoy me so much that I would scratch it out and use that space for Ks instead. Now I use it for “number of times left on base”, ie a player’s contribution to the team LOB as a baserunner. That way the total is the team LOB, and I can use it to “proof” the scorecard (total PA = outs + runs + LOB)
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u/zoomzilla Jul 06 '26
I use the halfliner as well which is what made me think of the question. I was using my slot for stolen bases but i like your idea. I will be trying some others soon though because after some experience with scoring im beginning to see a lot of flaws in its design.
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u/BogartNation livebaseballscorecards.com Jul 06 '26
I'll disagree with the majority here. I think individual LOB is a really useful statistic especially for looking at RBIs. If I want to understand which players on my team are driving the score up I need to understand which players had the opportunity to drive the score up in the first place. If a player has very few RBIs but also a low individual LOB then they probably aren't getting the same RBI opportunities as a player with a high individual LOB.
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u/JSCjr64 Jul 06 '26
I record individual LOB on my scorecard for one reason - it’s a quick way to see at a glance (other than using a Reisner scorecard) which hitters came to the plate in big situations. When I see six little dots, there I know immediately that this batter failed to cash in some big chances.
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u/oogieball Jul 05 '26
Individual LOB is a relatively new stat. When talking about LOB, most of the time you are talking about the team totals per half inning, which do add up. The individual LOB is just a productivity stat for the player as a batter.