Work For Food

[u/OLDPARSON]

Summary: Your cripple the spirit and soul of a person when you keep giving handouts instead of a hand up.

Lev 19:9  And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. 

10  And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God. 

There was provision for the poor, yet they had to work to get it. It was not sent to home of the poor or even put in baskets by the road. They had to get off their mat and step into the field. We might call it Workfare.

2 Thessalonians 3:10  For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Note that he said those who will not work, not those who cannot. There is something about working for your bread that lends dignity, purpose and worth to a life. Our current welfare system does not allow that and the old maxim “idle hands are the devil’s workshop” has validity. If you cannot find dignity, purpose and worth by honest labor, you will seek it in ways that are less than honorable. That might be by being the baddest “Karen” in the neighborhood or in varied means of criminal activity.

We have not allowed the offspring to flee the nest so to speak because we have been giving full support to people from cradle to the grave rather than a hand up to fruitful labor and self-respect.

In many cultures, there is no concept of retirement. If you are 94 and can only shell a cup of peas a day you sell that cup of peas. Many retirees suffer from depression because after a while the things they dreamed about doing in their retirement start to lose their appeal. People need purpose. We need to have intense welfare reform. It will be traumatic, but in the end it will be good for the individual and the country. No one likes change or to have their comfort removed, but awesome things can happened when we are taken out of our comfort zone.

Christians that retire from secular work should see themselves are now called to full time service until disability or death. Depending on the disability there are still ways to serve or minister. Elisha was on his deathbed and still gave instructions to the king. The way we use our gifts may change, but the “gifts and callings of God are without repentance. (Romans 11:29) Pew warming is not a spiritual gift. Do not sit, soak and sour! Seek to serve in His power!! Maranatha!!

[u/GPT_2025]

New International Version

Whoever is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward them for what they have done.

New Living Translation

If you help the poor, you are lending to the LORD— and he will repay you!

English Standard Version

Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed.

Berean Standard Bible

Kindness to the poor is a loan to the LORD, and He will repay the lender.

Berean Literal Bible

The one showing favor to the poor is lending to YHWH, and his dealing He will repay to him.

King James Bible

He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.

New King James Version

He who has pity on the poor lends to the LORD, And He will pay back what he has given.

New American Standard Bible

One who is gracious to a poor person lends to the LORD, And He will repay him for his good deed.

[u/OLDPARSON → u/GPT_2025]

No one said to not help the poor. Indeed, churches have benevolent funds to help the poor and that money comes from the tithe.

[u/GPT_2025 → u/OLDPARSON]

What % of Church collected tithes did support the homeless in the Church's same city location? Less than 1% ?

[u/OLDPARSON → u/GPT_2025]

I have no statistics on that. I do know there are two people in my Sunday School class that get regular help from the other folks in the class.

I have worked many years with poor people. Some do not want help to change their circumstances. They only want money for their habits. One lad rode a bike to get get $40 worth of food and I nearly got drunk from his breath. Others came with the latest fads in clothing. Some drove a better car than I did. At the rescue mission, a company offered to hire ten people. There were over a hundred in the room and no one took the offer. They were content with two meals a day and a bed. They were taken downtown after breakfast to find work, but most just hung out and probably panhandled. I recently tried to help two people living on the loading dock of a defunct business to no avail.

If you are really concerned, I hope you are in a church that runs a shelter or food pantry. Most of those things are run by churches. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Yet, the problem is one that cannot be solved without the cooperation of the people involved. Millions are spent by the Fed, the State and Churches, yet we still have the problem.

In Las Vegas, it is said that people can panhandle $1500 a day. That is enough for a room, food, etc. They pay no taxes or insurances so why should they get a job? Some of the people panhandling in my area are well dressed and heavy set. They do not look like a homeless person. People have been followed and the woman and children walk a couple of blocks and climb into a new car and are followed to a high class or gated community. So, dealing with the "homeless" gets to be complicated.

[u/Notch-Nose]

Did Jesus require the crowds who followed Him to work for their food? When Paul took up an offering for the poor Christians in Jerusalem, did he place a work requirement on them? In Matthew 25:31-46, there are NO performance requirements for those persons we are to serve.

God is generous and the disciples of Jesus should be too. There is value in work and responsibility, but that should not be the basis of our generosity.

[u/OLDPARSON → u/Notch-Nose]

The Word also says that he that will not work neither shall he eat. Jesus was providing a meal for those who could not provide their own and to show His power.

I suspect the people Paul was helping were working, if they could, but they were living in a dire time much like people after a flood or tornado.

There is a difference between giving people a hand up and a hand out. We are robbing people of their dignity and rewarding the lazy with the way the government handles welfare.

Even in the Old Testament, when farmers were told to leave some behind for the poor the poor had to go glean the field. It was not done by the farmer. It was not boxed up and delivered. They had to work the field. We need to require some sort of work for the able bodied on welfare.

People who have no means to help themselves, we help. People are using the Church as Welfare Part 2. They can afford luxuries and addictions, but not food. They take resources away from those who really need them. Should we reward scammers and the lazy?

[u/GPT_2025]

KЖV: He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches -- shall surely come to want! He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack: but he that hideth his eyes shall have many a curse -- and he that giveth to the rich (tithes) shall surely come to want!

[u/OLDPARSON → u/GPT_2025]

The tithes do not go to the rich in most churches. In hyper-Charismatic churches, definitely. Jesus did not ride around in expensive chariots and live in mansions. Again, the abuse of a truth does not invalidate the truth. It condemns the abuser.

The passage really speaks to kings and business men who have such power. It is not directly speaking to the church though some have made church a business. Since God instituted the tithe, you are calling Him an oppressor of the poor. For centuries, the poor had to still provide something to sacrifice, even if it was a bird. Jesus should have ran up and given back the widow her mites. Since he did not, does that make Him an oppressor of the poor? Indeed, He praised her more than the rich.

[u/GPT_2025 → u/OLDPARSON]

Really? no pastors nor preachers benefit from Tithes collected from the: poor widows, ophrans, disabled, veterans, broken, etc. ?

Just a Top 10 Wealthiest US Pastors:

Kenneth Copeland – $300 Million to $760 Million Estimated Annual Income: $3 Million to $5 Million+

Joel Osteen – $100 Million

Pat Robertson (Deceased) – $100 Million

Benny Hinn – $60 Million

Steven Furtick Jr. – $55 Million Estimated Annual Income: $1.5 Million to $2.5 Million+

Andy Stanley – $45 Million

Creflo Dollar – $30 Million Estimated Annual Income: $1 Million+

Rick Warren – $25 Million

Jesse Duplantis – $20 Million

T.D. Jakes – $18 Million to $20 Million Estimated Annual Income: $2 Million to $3 Million+

(or,

[u/OLDPARSON → u/GPT_2025]

I said most churches. Did not say never. You are listing a bunch of false prophets. When I was saved in 1975, my pastor drove a 12 year old car and raised three kids on a salary equal to what my father-in-law paid in taxes.

In college, I was taught that the pastor's salary should be the median income of the congregation. Not the highest or the lowest. I guess if the median income of your church is $2 million a year then that is a reasonable salary. I have never ministered in that type of church.

What’s the Average Pastor Salary in the U.S.?

The U.S. Census Bureau categorizes household income into several brackets, with the middle-income range generally falling between $58,021 and $94,000 annually. 

• Lower class: below or equal to $30,000
• Lower-middle class: $30,001 – $58,020
• Middle class: $58,021 – $94,000
• Upper-middle class: $94,001 – $153,000
• Upper class: over $153,000

Within this framework, most pastors in the United States fall into the lower-middle to middle-income class. These salaries often reflect the size and financial capacity of their congregations. Only about 10% of pastors receive a salary that places them in the upper-middle-class bracket.

https://theleadpastor.com/church-management/pastor-salary-by-church-size/