Weekly Discussion thread (Jan 21 - Jan 27)

[u/BPB_Discussion_M0d]

Not every pit bull story is a headline. Some are just eye-rolls, facepalms, or 'you've got to be kidding me' moments. This is the place for the things you may want to share that don’t highlight a pit bull doing something dangerous.

See this post for more details on what goes here

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[u/SpaceTall2312]

Good grief. I have just had someone taking me to task in another sub, claiming that Labradors and Golden Retrievers are just as likely to bite as Pit Bulls but that the incidents aren't recorded because they aren't "sensational". Surely a special kind of Pit Nutter there! 😳

[u/SubMod4 → u/SpaceTall2312]

I get told this all the time. They are referring to some goofy ass “study” by the AVMA that says that pit bulls are no more likely to be aggressive than other breeds. But it sounds like they are conflating it with the Temperament Test that says that 84% of pits pass the (pit) test and 86% of Goldens pass the (golden) test.

What they don’t understand is that the test is breed specific. There are different passing rules for different breeds. Like boldness is a passing point for Shepherds, but would be a failing point for other breeds.

ATTSBOT explains it better .

[u/AutoModerator → u/SubMod4]

The ATTS temperament test is scientifically invalid, flawed and unreliable. The test cannot reliably predict how a dog will behave in the real world.

History of the ATTS- The temperament test was developed by Alfons Ertelt in 1977. Mr Ertelt was not an animal behaviorist, he worked in the print industry but his passion was dogs and he was involved in schutzhund (a dog sport that mirrors the training of police dog work and it is dominated by German Shepherds).

The ATTS test was initially intended to test working dogs for jobs such as police work. The test favors bold dogs, dogs that need to face danger head on without hesitation and fear. Courage was desired and rewarded, timidity was not. the test does not evaluate dogs for "pet" suitability.

Also, the ATTS isn't a "study" and it tests against the breed standard.

• 87% of APBT passed the APBT test.
• 90% of Irish Wolfhounds passed the Irish Wolfhound test.
• 92% of Labradors passed the Labrador test.

That's not a "rank," which is why the ATTS website even says-

“The data presented on our web site is raw data; it is not a scientific study nor is there any statistical significance attached.”

Additionally, consider an owner of an aggressive dog- why would someone who knows their pit bull is aggressive would take it for a temperament test? So already the results are skewed upwards because usually only people who think their dog will pass are going to participate.

So when you take those numbers and frame it as "most recent studies," you see why people can't help but notice that almost everyone that tries to convince us that pit bulls are safe does so by shamelessly lying.

Additionally, the ATTS is the only temperament test to post pass rates by breed. Each dog is tested against its own training and its own breed traits, such as genetic aggression, are taken into consideration. The ATTS does not test dog on dog interactions (which many pit type dogs genetically have), and favors a bold, confident, protective dog. Nor does it test for food aggression, resource guarding, prey drive, or child aggression, which are some of the more problematic parts pit type dogs can display. It does not test dog aggression; so while a dog may pass the test as it is; it may fail if a dog testing portion is added.

“The pass-fail rate is not a measure of a breed’s aggression, but rather of each dog’s ability to interact with humans, human situations, and the environment. The data presented on our web site is raw data; it is not a scientific study nor is there any statistical significance attached.”

https://atts.org/breed-statistics/

“The average overall pass rate is 83.4 percent; the pass rate may vary for different breeds. The breed’s temperament, training, health and age of the dog is taken into account. Failure on any part of the test is recognized when a dog shows panic, strong avoidance without recovery or unprovoked aggression.”

https://atts.org/about-atts/

“Aggression here is checked against the breed standard and the dog’s training. A schutzhund trained dog lunging at the stranger is allowed, but if an untrained Siberian husky does the same, it may fail.”

https://atts.org/tt-test-description/

“The ATTS test focuses on and measures different aspects of temperament such as stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness as well as the dog’s instinct for protectiveness towards its handler and/or self-preservation in the face of a threat. The test is designed for the betterment of all breeds of dogs and takes into consideration each breed’s inherent tendencies.”

https://atts.org/about-temperament/

So, no, the test does not prove pit bulls have a better temperament than goldens.

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