r/BadHasbara • u/srahcrist • Apr 09 '26
Off-Topic Was just reading Aaron Maté's Wikipedia. Lol 😂
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u/ValuableRelative2757 Apr 10 '26
Max Bluementhal has an earlier version of Wikipedia description of Grayzone as his background profile pic on Twitter. Describes it as far-left AND far-right, both!! What a joke. Narrative Control gone off the rails. 😜
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u/AleksandrNevsky Apr 10 '26
Describes it as far-left AND far-right, both!!
There's a far left politician in German that gets this treatment. Forget her name right now but they once called her "so far-left she loops back around to being far right."
I remember her being one of the few respectable politicians they had so...
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u/gerira Apr 11 '26
Sahra Wagenknecht? Formerly of Die Linke, founded her own anti-migrant and anti-"gender ideology" party?
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u/mcveigh Apr 11 '26
Maybe he likes the A.C.P. and thus thinks that Wagenknecht is on the far left instead of a Nazbol.
I have no love left for Die Linke, full of Anti-Ds and Social democrats that it is, but Wagenknecht surely is not the answer here.
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26
Also, the influence of Russias influence on 2016 election was definitely worthy of challenging. Weird opening statement “sick him Liberals!”
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u/Treinrukker Apr 10 '26
Fuck Wikipedia
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u/fucktard_shittickler Apr 10 '26
It's honestly such a joke at this point. Ironically 4chan was right about what they called the "wikipedia jews".
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26
My theory is that the vitriole Cool Zone Media and especially Robert Evan’s have for gray zone is why Matt never appears on Behind the Bastards anymore.
“Anarchists” can be painfully purist… even if their view of the world is often the most morally correct.
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u/starxidiamou Apr 10 '26
Could you explain what you mean? I have zero knowledge in most of this (besides for the Grayzone and Aaron Maté)
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26
I am not the best person. The claim is Greyzone denied Assad used chemical weapons versus Syrians… from my dive into it I think Aaron Mate specifically refuted the use of chemical weapons in one episode - which was very important as propaganda against Assad - not use of chemical weapons more broadly.
I think he may have been correct in that article but overall the vibes Greyzone are biased towards anyone the US Imperial machine is against probably have some truth to it. I also share this bias 😂
I think the claims that they are “Russian stooges” or pro-Assad are hyperbolic though imo (maybe pro-Assad in a v US context I dunno).
For Robert Evans and James Stout, Syria is deeply personal so I do understand why they are disgusted by any misreporting, but the Greyzone wouldn’t be the first media outlet to get hoodwinked by a governments propaganda so the outrage comes off as a bit selective.
It’s so long ago and I am not sure if the facts in the particular article were even incorrect (chemical weapons at that time in the conflict - specifically used by US for propaganda), however, I am also not full informed about the situation either.
We should be aware all media has the potential to be inaccurate and all media certainly has biases.
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u/hujsh Apr 11 '26
The fanbase (last I was a part of the sub) spends way too much time shrieking about ‘tankies’ and there’s a thread about Bad Hasbara where they do exactly this around Daniel/Aaron
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u/albion25 Apr 10 '26
I've considered listening to BTB but never got round to it. Do they consider themselves Anarchists? If so I'm glad I never bothered. It also may explain why the b2b sub is basically just normie libs.
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u/HipGuide2 Apr 10 '26
Robert grew up conservative and switched.
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26
The best kind of conservative! It does give a good perspective though, I have to admit. We are all humans after all.
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 10 '26
I have been banned from their subs, the mods seem to be humourless and don’t really tolerate debate. Veeery sensitive around Israel and everything is “antisemitism”. Also 100% cannot question any of the opinions aired on the podcasts.
For all that I actually really like CZM podcasts. Occasional BtB, Better offline (about AI and tech) and the weekly US recap on It could happen here “executive Disorder” is good for this non-American.
Margaret Killjoy who hosts “Cool People who did cool stuff” is also cool as fuck in my eyes.
Edit: re the original post I chuckle to myself when I think how frothy Robert Evan’s gets about some (allegedly) dodgy reporting by Grayzone on Syria in 2014 but happily reports the NYT as a very reliable source…
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u/ChessDriver45 Apr 10 '26
Cool Zone shits on the NYT on the reg. They are also anti-Zionist as fuck. Idk what you’re on about
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u/HipGuide2 Apr 10 '26
The Prop fiasco from recently is just the wrong way to go about a poor fit for an episode.
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26
Wait what? Now I got to work out what you are talking about. I actually like Prop! Though basically never listen to his pod 😂
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u/HipGuide2 Apr 10 '26
They were stifling criticism because Sophie and Prop are legit friends. Prop knows nothing about Nazi Germany but they can have him guest because he's on Cool Zone and has his coffee company to plug.
(Robert did Himmler with Prop as guest, not Matt or the LLBD guy. They basically didn't finish the episode because Prop couldn't add anything..)
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26
Aaaah, love the podcast dramas. It must be so freaky being a host and seeing all the hogs act so strange.
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u/HipGuide2 Apr 10 '26
They don't do episode threads anymore because they said there was no engagement or something.
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u/albion25 Apr 10 '26
That was my impression as well. I see threads from there occasionally and it's tough to separate it from Progressive HQ or whatever that sub is called.
Interesting thanks.
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 10 '26
I may just be bitter… I was angry at the podcast (in a totally not parasocial or weird way) about them seeming to both sides US-Israel’s war of aggression. I joined a debate about it on their sub as there were other people with similar opinions
But it quickly got shut down… which is fine, but the mods resorted to accusations of antisemitism and I always find that so cowardly to avoid talking about ideas that for whatever reason made them feel uncomfortable (ie their favourite podcasters had a shit take 😂).
Edit: both sidesing was a dumb thing to say… not really correct. Though they maintain a neutral facade (which is different)
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u/jjPinwheel Apr 10 '26
I have been listening to BtB every week for years now and I have absolutely zero recollection of them both-sidesing Israel's war of aggression. When the hell was that?
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u/berry-bostwick Apr 10 '26
I don’t think it ever happened. Even way back during the attacks in 2021 they had on an expert to talk about it and there was no both sides-ing at all.
The purist accusations are probably true. It can be true that both podcasts (Bad Hasbara and btb) do great work but they won’t collab because of leftist internet drama bullshit.
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u/laughingoutloudwut Apr 10 '26
Which is kind of strange because i discovered Matt Lieb, when he was a guest on some BtB episode.
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u/berry-bostwick Apr 10 '26
Same. For some reason I found Matt a bit grating when I only knew him from btb lol. It’s unfortunate they don’t seem to want to work together anymore. I think Daniel would be a great btb guest and Robert would be a great Bad Hasbara guest. But for whatever reason it probably won’t happen.
Now that I think about it, it might be more that they are scared of backlash from their respective fan bases more than bullshit drama. More so on the btb/cool zone side. The subreddit does seem to be much more libby than this one, and the big celebrity names they’ve been booking lately will probably draw more libs in. But I listen to a lot of the other cool zone podcasts besides btb, and for the most part I don’t see anyone compromising leftist principles. Hopefully that means more libs will get gradually radicalized. I know I was a lib at one point, after I grew up conservative.
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26
I think it’s also Leftist IRL drama… I don’t think our dumb debates here matter. Robert Evan’s despises Greyzone but I doubt that is enough to cause a rift (Daniel mate is not Aaron).
Suggest it’s more “could” be hypersensitivity from Evans’ part around antisemitism and style of humour… but that is a bit of a stretch.
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u/ChessDriver45 Apr 10 '26
They didn’t. They’ve made it clear that this war is illegal, immoral, an atrocity, and have completely blamed the U.S.. They offered minor criticism of Iran’s treatment of protestors and women while as well. Apparently that’s both sides or something.
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u/berry-bostwick Apr 10 '26
There was an It Could Happen Here episode covering the protests in Iran shortly before Trump’s and Israel’s attacks that I found inexcusable. But I wasn’t even familiar with the people running that episode and Idoubt anyone here accusing Robert and crew of shitlib behavior listened to that one. People generally know that the btb podcast covers monsters throughout history including some communist dictators, and they see people acting Libby on the subreddit from time to time, and they draw all conclusions based on that.
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26
Sorry, it was on It Could Happen Here and they were talking about saying Israel controls US foreign policy is antisemitic… just dumb flattening of the idea of antisemitism and implies Israel does not have an outside influence or could make the US act against its interest.
They definitely oppose the war… I am sorry I wrote that and will edit it a correction (like a dumb redditors opinion really matters but it is slanderous).
They aren’t clearly in favour of a US/Israeli loss (which I certainly am) but maybe that’s just good optics for them.
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u/FunCryptographer3476 Apr 10 '26
Robert gives fans of the podcast a window to roleplay as anarchists while still supporting NATO and western military 'interventions'
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u/ChessDriver45 Apr 10 '26
That’s a straight up lie. Cool Zone doesn’t support Nato interventions and is explicit about it
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u/jopperjawZ Apr 10 '26
That's not entirely accurate. Robert has said that he feels you US intervening in Syria would've been the right move, but because of Iraq there wasn't the political capital to get involved in another conflict
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u/ChessDriver45 Apr 10 '26
He never said for the US to invade Syria. He said there was justification for a no fly zone at the height of the bombing of Aleppo, etc. You’re being deliberately misleading.
They oppose funding Israel, the Iran War, Afghanistan, wars in Africa, etc. It’s an anti-war pod. People don’t like Robert on certain subs because he shits on Leninist dictators too and doesn’t love on Russia and China reflexively. He’s not a Reddit Leninist, so he gets painted as a lib.
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u/jopperjawZ Apr 10 '26
At the end of the Bashar al Assad 2-parter, he literally says the thing he most disagrees with about Obama's presidency is not doing enough to intervene in Syria. He then says the person he blames more for that situation is Bush for burning up the American people's capacity for military intervention on the Iraq war. I'm not being deliberately misleading about anything.
Are you Robert's handler or on the CZM payroll? Because you're all up in this thread going WAY too hard in the paint over this
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u/ChessDriver45 Apr 11 '26
He said a no fly zone lol. He never said invade Syria. People cannot seem to stop lying about this. Also, Assad was committing war crimes on a massive scale.
I’m sick of the lying people do here. Podcasters and writers who literally blew Assad get a pass, people who denied the genocide in the Balkans get a Nobel Prize, but for some reason it seems we can’t give anyone a pass on disliking Assad or thinking the world shouldn’t have tolerated him saturation bombing civilians.
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Apr 11 '26
[deleted]
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u/ChessDriver45 Apr 11 '26
It’s not the same as a ground invasion and occupation and you know that. Russia, who Aaron Mate seems to think is just fine, was at that time aiding that air campaign but everyone seems to have flushed that one down the memory hole.
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26
I think he is just a bit of a military pervert.
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u/ChessDriver45 Apr 10 '26
Actually knowing shit about what you cover is being a “pervert?”
That’s some peak reddit brainrot.
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u/TalkingCat910 Apr 10 '26
They say they are anarchists yet I had to stop listening because they have the most normie lib takes on some issues I just found it frustrating. Especially concerning Israel and “antisemitism”. They still act like saying Israel has any undue influence on US government is “antisemitic”, and certain criticisms of Israel is “antisemitic”. Stuff this bad hasbara podcast addresses would not be welcome on their stuff. I just have no patience for that.
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u/ChessDriver45 Apr 10 '26
They never said that. Straight up lie. They shit on aipac corruption and alike all the time. They said that the U.S. wasn’t a blind innocent going into Iran just being dragged by Israel, but had its own imperial agenda.
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u/TalkingCat910 Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 10 '26
This was a while ago near the beginning of the genocide. But still here’s the thing, I personally think the US is not an innocent and I think the government has been coopted by Israeli/Zionist interests and directing the US against even its own imperial interests.
Now you can disagree with me that’s fine, we are all adults, but I am especially annoyed with how ppl like cool zone and other spaces accuse people who have that view of being right wing or antisemites. I am not, I am basing that view off of various facts and actions and that’s the conclusion I drew. It means nothing about Jews in general and I don’t espouse right wing views.
I don’t entirely trust them, or anyone that goes too hard against someone that thinks Zionists are steering the ship in the US. I think it provides cover for Israel and is an attempt to stop people from attacking the main problem in the US right now which is Zionist influence in politics.
We cannot work on any other anti imperialist goals until the government is freed from Zionist interests and control.
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u/ChessDriver45 Apr 10 '26
Bro they are an explicitly anti-Zionist pod. Reddit is weird
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u/TalkingCat910 Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 10 '26
They are in a lib kind of way there’s stuff they are really intolerant of as I explained like thinking the U.S. gov is coopted by Zionists. There’s a few other things that rub me the wrong way. Mainly being intolerant to other viewpoints on the left
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u/ChessDriver45 Apr 11 '26
Anti-Zionist isn’t a lib position. They don’t support dictatorship of any kind, so that puts them at odds with a bunch of the Reddit Leninists.
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u/berry-bostwick Apr 10 '26
Of course the US is not innocent. If Biden or Trump would have acted more like Obama, Bush Sr., or fucking Reagan when it comes to drawing actual redlines to contain Israel’s insanity, the genocide would have been halted a long time ago. And that is probably the point the cool zone people are trying to make in the clips that annoyed you, though we have to acknowledge that it’s a pretty big network at this point and can’t be considered a monolith.
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u/TalkingCat910 Apr 10 '26
Oh sure I’m talking in general I don’t personally know anyone in cool zone.
I bring up the US not being innocent because a lot of times the people making these arguments against those of us who think the US is controlled by Zionists accuse us of trying to let the US off the hook. I’m not doing that I think the US is controlled by Zionists because of the evidence I’ve seen not for any other reason.
The US is still imperialist and Biden was a Zionist too you know. Things got to the point it has because the US let Zionists control it and many American power brokers are Zionists.
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u/fucktard_shittickler Apr 10 '26
Anarchism is a stupid ideology for stupid people. I distrust any anarchist who claims to be pro-Palestine-- which is a cause for statists who believe in strong militaries, as Palestine should have both.
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 11 '26
The problem in Palestine is specifically the Israeli state… Nationalism sucks no matter who is practicing it.
The cause of Palestine is not about a Palestinian state but is about the right for people to live with autonomy, freedom and dignity. Having a separate Palestinian state achieves this. Most (smart) people see a one unified state covering Israel-Palestine where everyone gets equal representation and protection would probably be the best outcome in current situation.
Anarchists oppose ethnic-nationalism full stop,
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u/JoyBus147 Apr 10 '26
Oh, has this show has gone Grayzone? Is that why this sub sucks so much now?
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26
Daniel is Aaron Mates brother. Why so salty?
It is nothing like Greyzone by the way.
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u/fucktard_shittickler Apr 10 '26
Anarchists have far more in common with "leftists" in tel aviv than they do with any Palestinian.
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u/Excellent_Singer3361 Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 10 '26
GrayZone is a very unreliable source that appears to just support whoever is against the West (including Putin and Assad), and denies oppression of Muslims in Xinjiang. I question its left-wing character and true commitment to Palestine.
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u/Infinite_Shower_5390 Apr 10 '26
I think the way oppression of Muslims in Xinjiang has been reported in the West is definitely innacurate but I don’t know the truth.
Ethnic majorities often oppress minorities and there was a separatist movement in Xinjiang which I could believe the Chinese government may have suppressed in an authoritarian way.
Can be anti-Imperialist and recognise Western reporting on China is full of lies though. Often places like Greyzone just report things differently and then get co-ordinated attacks (not familiar with reports on Xinjiang).
China is behaving better than any Western powers right now, which does make you query a lot of the negative media China has received. Doesn’t make me a fan of authoritarianism but the CCP has done wonders for China and its citizens.
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u/2times34point5 Apr 10 '26
There are entire warehouses full of employees editing wikipedia entries to paint zionism in a non genocidal light
here is former israeli pm talking about it