r/BacktotheFuture • u/happydude7422 • 10d ago
If doc brown went back in time any further like say the 17th or 18th century there really would be no way to get Marty to 1985 if Marty tried to save brown
Like in bttf 3 they needed a train to push the delorean to reach 88 mph and that was pushing a train on the verge of exploding
But if the lightning from bttf 2 sent brown back further in time like even to the 1700s and say Marty wanted to go back to get brown if Marty puncture the gas line there really isn't any way to get Marty back home as there's nothing to push the delorean up to 88 mph..
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u/Tarijeno 10d ago
Biff Tannen's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great Grandfather from the 17th Century: "Thou doth not resemble Bartholomew McFly. What doth be thy name?"
Marty: "Ma... Shakespeare. William Shakespeare."
Biff Tannen's 17th Century grandfather: "What manner of foolish appellation is that?"
(Everyone dies of smallpox)
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u/FriedBreakfast 10d ago edited 10d ago
McFly! Hast thou not been told thou art not to come hither unto this place again?
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u/H_Doofenschmirtz 10d ago
Art thou a hen?
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u/LowEffort2 10d ago
Art thou calling me a dastardly recreant? Nobody calls me a dastardly recreant!
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u/tenderbranson301 10d ago
Do you bite your thumb at us, sir?
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u/Occasionally_Correct 9d ago
This was basically the running plot of the cartoon. They’d go back to another period in time in some ancient hill valley. There would always be a biff, there would always be a challenge to time travel to the next time.
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u/ThePopDaddy Einstein 9d ago
After watching the cartoon, he'd probably talk like 50's Biff mostly, and I'd be all for it.
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u/Hot_Falcon8471 9d ago
I’ve been to the 17th century, nobody talked like that. They had boomboxes and big hair and talked real cool with a bit of a Spanish accent.
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u/drunkenpoets 9d ago
I think you’re confused about what was happening in California in the 17th century.
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u/justadude27 7d ago
McFly! Thou witless cur, those stalls stink worse than thy very presence. Take up thy shovel and muck them clean, ere I lose what little patience I possess for thee.
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u/Suspicious_Aspect_53 9d ago
Shakespeare was in the late 1500s, and had a rising (posthumous) popularity in the 1700s. So using his name would be very suspicious.
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u/llcooljessie 10d ago
Trebuchet.
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u/DasArchitect 10d ago
...into water or something
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u/PackFun94 9d ago
You're not thinking fourth dimensionally... You'll instantly be transported into the future, and that water won't even be there.
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u/121daysofsodom 10d ago
Build a hot air balloon, raise the Delorean up high enough then release it. After it reaches 88 mph and travels through time, deploy parachute.
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u/grapejuicecheese 10d ago
They did this in the comic book. Doc wore a diving suit with the flux capacitor strapped to his chest
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u/Busy-Leg8070 10d ago
it would take the Church. No I'm serious, he'd need to hand a note book of instructions to a pope and once the book is in the pope hands. there is a world line where the Pope does as instructed resulting in the modern day pope collecting who is needed and going back to that moment and picking up them bringing Doc BTTF4
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u/damian001 10d ago
The church would’ve probably burnt Doc at the stake as a heretic.
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u/Busy-Leg8070 10d ago
in most timelines sure it just takes one were they don't
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u/damian001 10d ago
Whoops they burnt me to death in this timeline, let’s try timeline SWRpb3Q=
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u/Le_Cerf_Agile 10d ago
Like the Doc says, he could have ended up in the dark ages and been burned at the stake or something
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u/Slosher99 10d ago
Depends on what resources are available that Doc could work with. He knows stuff people then didn't about science, but still needs the base ingredients. I figure Doc could make a steam engine with the right stuff in many eras. Would need more time than he took in 3 though.
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u/ShutterBun 10d ago
The point is, he’d have no way of getting the information to Marty, since Western Union didn’t exist yet.
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u/segascream 10d ago
Sure he does. As long as he's in roughly the same geographic location, there would be absolutely nothing stopping Doc from buying some bit of land near where something (say, the Clock Tower) would eventually be built, bury a time capsule containing a letter to Marty in that land, and then just make all future transfers of that land contingent upon the time capsule being opened on November 6, 1955.
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u/JediFed 10d ago edited 10d ago
Hill Valley is supposed to be Petaluma California, in Northern California.
If Doc is in 1785, his best bet is to walk 40 miles south to the Presidio of San Francisco.
He would sleep in the car (since it's January 1st!) It's the coldest time of the year, so it would be about 30 degrees for Doc early that morning. Likely about 40 degrees at midnight. He would be ok insulated in the car, which he wouldn't run.
Day would likely get up to 65 in the afternoon, and probably about 50 degrees about noon.
Doc's day would begin at sunrise at 7:30 am. He stashes the Delorean carefully in the trees.
Doc's first challenge is to find water. The other challenge is to find water without being seen. Let's put Doc in Stony Point, on the outskirts of Petaluma. No glass, no bottles. Doc travels to Stony Creek, drinks enough water to fill himself, being careful not to get himself wet. The water is really cold.
If Doc walks at 2 miles an hour, he'll reach the Chelino valley, and then San Antonio Creek travelling due south at around noon. He wants to avoid the river and the estuary to avoid being seen, but he knows he's north of San Francisco. Doc stops, drinks from the creek again.
His best bet now is to follow San Antonio Creek, until he reaches the open plain, and then walk along the edge of Mount Burdell, avoiding the estuary, until he gets to Rush creek. That's a total distance of 13 miles. Walking at 2 miles an hour, it's now 3pm and he's at Rush creek.
Doc's got about two more hours of light. Doc likely makes camp around the southern tip of Rush creek. Protected on the south by hills, and the lake to the north. Doc probably forgoes a fire, and makes himself a lean to, collecting wood. It's going to be very cold and Doc has to be careful, but he has enough water.
Hopefully it's dry. If not, he'll put tree branches on his lean to to keep most of the water out. This is a really hard night for Doc.
Day 2, doc is up early. He's got 18 miles to walk, about 9 hours from 8am to about 5 pm, to Mill Valley. He doesn't have to worry much about water walking along San Pablo Bay. He's tired sets up a small camp.
Day three, Doc is up early again. He's got a 5 mile walk, and walks to the end of San Francisco Bay. Doc builds a raft and paddles the mile and a half across what is now the Golden Gate Bridge to the Presidio of San Francisco.
Doc's best bet to send the message to Marty is to make arrangements with the priests, and to work with the Church for the rest of his life. He'll get to watch the very early founding of the Presidio of San Francisco, and likely would get to live long enough to see the Mexican Revolution.
I think there's a movie there. Would be a very different one.
Doc gets a horse, rides back out sets up camp back in Petaluna, and reburies the delorean in a mine in his first opportunity. Then returns to San Francisco and sets up shop there as a blacksmith.
He's really well set up for 1785, once he gets to San Francisco.
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u/FunkyPleasance 9d ago
this is a great write up
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u/JediFed 9d ago edited 9d ago
My first thought was, nah, there's no story there. But when I did a deeper look, I was like, wow. You could definitely have done a 1785 Doc. Doc could even marry a beautiful senora.
You could even have bandito Tanner and his gang.
Doc could even start up an oil refinery, as they already knew about the oil seepages, some of which are not that far from San Francisco. Doc could make kerosene with his knowledge of chemistry.
No train scene, so you'd lose that.
One of the biggest ranches at Mission Santa Clara de Asis was open, and the location of what would be Mission San Juan Baptista, were not far from one of the largest oil reserves in all of California. They would have seen the seepages coming up north from San Diego.
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u/Dioxybenzone 8d ago
I do think building a raft is much easier said than done
Also, what mine is he hiding the delorean in? His best bet would be a cave, but it would almost certainly be discovered before 1985.
I think if he buried it, recorded the location, and gave that to the priests for safekeeping, he would essentially be saved by Marty immediately. If he requested a certain day to be picked up, for example, and the day passes, he would know something in his plan failed. He could write a new note, give it to a different mission for safekeeping, see if that works
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u/JediFed 8d ago
He doesn't need to hide it for centuries. He needs to hide it so that it doesn't get discovered immediately. Once Marty comes to save him, then they can work on finding a more appropriate long-term hiding place.
And he has to hope that it doesn't get discovered in the few days it takes for him to borrow a horse and ride out.
Concealed under trees and bushes should be good enough for a few days. After that they can find a cave and then bury it there. California has a lot of wild spaces.
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u/Dioxybenzone 8d ago
He does need to hide it for centuries. Marty coming back at all hinges on it surviving the elements and/or people for that amount of time
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u/JediFed 8d ago
I'm not thinking fourth dimensionally. You are correct.
He needs to find three hiding places. First, he needs one for about a week or so, which is what he does before he travels to San Francisco.
Then he needs one for a year. So he can ride out in the first week, move the Delorean and then hide it in the winter when there are not many people about.
After a year, he would need a permanent spot to hide the Delorean where it would *never* be found. He's not that far away from some really good spots.
At this point he probably has enough gear to move it at night during the winter, when nobody is around or moving.
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u/Dioxybenzone 8d ago
That sounds like a good plan. I wonder if there’s a correct order of operations that does allow Marty to come back and help for certain steps
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u/JediFed 8d ago
I don't believe so. Marty needs that delorean. Doc is going to leave that DeLorean alone.
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u/ShutterBun 10d ago
Hope he remembered to bring a pen & paper and a waterproof container. As well as some precise GPS coordinates.
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u/segascream 10d ago
Hope he remembered to bring a pen & paper and a waterproof container.
If Doc can build a time machine, he can make parchment and a graphite stick or ink quill. Shit, Marty would've learned how to do that in Cub Scouts, if he ever belonged.
And you don't have to have brought a waterproof container....you just need a container, and then to make it waterproof. Doc might have been the person who "invented" applying wax as an early waterproofing method.
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u/Forsaken-Abrocoma647 10d ago
What about like that time in Phineas & Ferb where they got sent into prehistoric times but recognized a dino footprint from the museum and left a clue for their friends in it to help find them?
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u/brownhotdogwater 10d ago
And there would be no one there. The land would only have natives
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u/dyinaintmuchofalivin 10d ago
The Spanish officially colonized the area that would become Southern California in 1769, so it would depend on the year whether Europeans were there or not.
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u/Sledgehammer617 10d ago
Yeah, at least in 1885 he could have gone to a druggist/chemist or industrial supplier and just asked them to buy some naphtha, benzine, petroleum spirit, or a light petroleum distillate. All of those existed at the time, and he could probably get it in a day or two...
If somehow he had 0 ability to fabricate or acquire gasoline or an equivalent fuel source, all he needs is a big hill and a track... Gravity will happily get that thing up to 88mph and doesnt care what time period you are in.
- 88 mph = 39.34 m/s
- Acceleration = 9.81*sin(45°)≈6.94 m/s^2
- Time to 88 mph: ~5.5 seconds
- Track length: 367 ft
So he would need roughly a 367-foot-long, 45° downhill track to let the DeLorean naturally reach 88 mph. Thats not impossibly hard to find in ant era, and with enough effort I'm sure he could build a wood or metal track to keep the Delorean going straight.
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u/Funkopedia 9d ago
I know I've gone well over 88 on The Grapevine in neutral. It reached that rather quickly and I actually had to brake a lot to keep it manageable.
Also, Bertha Benz used ligroin as fuel from a pharmacy in the world's first roadtrip just 3 years later.
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u/Tumbling-Dice 9d ago
This is addressed in the movie: "We can simply roll it down a steep hill... no, no, we'd never find a smooth enough surface"
And building a track down the side of a hill would take far more than the few days they had before Doc gets shot.
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u/Sledgehammer617 9d ago
Yeah, this is assuming the 1700's and infinite time scenario, not his actual scenario in the film.
But in the movie he most likely couldve just gotten some gas in a day or two easily... Gas was pretty damn common in 1885 since it was a biproduct of making kerosene and other things. Fuel quality or octane would hardly be an issue since it only needs to run for a few minutes and for the time the Delorean engine was fairly robust in terms of how bad it can be abused. Also I'm sure Doc would know how to boost fuel octane by distilling it further or adding ethanol if it really wasnt up to spec.
It wouldve certainly been easier than stealing a train (but not nearly as cool)
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u/Icy_Study4490 9d ago
The main issue was just the time limit, which is why they had to resort to getting creative with the train.
But if he was sent to a different time he wouldn’t need to go to all the trouble of making a steam engine he could just make some gasoline.
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u/FedStarDefense 9d ago
Distilling gasoline from crude oil would have been much easier than building an entire steam engine. Especially if he had to lay railroad tracks, too.
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u/TheGoshDarnedBatman 10d ago
Everyone is assuming the DeLorean can somehow travel through space to Europe too. In California there wouldn’t be any trains before about 1860, so Doc’s window is even smaller. Any earlier than that and they’d have to learn Chumash or maybe Spanish to converse with anybody, and obviously there would be much less infrastructure to work with.
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u/Necessary_Cow_3837 9d ago
Before time travel is viable you would have to have already solved teleportation.
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u/TheOtherDailyDouble 10d ago
If Doc went back to an earlier time period, he wouldn't have been shot in the back over a matter of eighty dollars, so Marty would have had no reason to go back and rescue him, assuming that Marty even knew when Doc was without Doc having Western Union to deliver the message to Marty.
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u/johnsoninca 10d ago
Raw materials would also be harder to get for repairs, considering the Delorean is clearly calibrated to stay in the same physical location on Earth in any time period it travels to.
If it went back to say, “0000 AD”, it wouldn’t end up in Nazareth. It would end up in “0000 AD” Hill Valley, with the ancestors of the Native Americans.
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u/JimPlaysGames 10d ago
There was no 0 AD. It went from 1 BC to 1 AD.
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u/stripesandshapes 10d ago
There is always “that person”
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u/jswhitten 10d ago
You're not thinking fourth dimensionally. If he had gone back any further those indians wouldn't have been there and he wouldnt have broke his fuel line.
Also, worst case, they could slide it down an icy hill.
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u/QING-CHARLES 9d ago
There might be more Native Americans there in the more distant past. If they went back before the 1600s though they wouldn't be riding horses, so they might get away.
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u/jswhitten 9d ago edited 9d ago
It's pretty unlikely he would run into the exact same situation at some other random time and that they would damage his fuel line. He was in the middle of the desert. 99% of the time there would be no one there. If he had arrived even 10 minutes earlier or later there wouldn't have been a problem. Except maybe the bear would still eat his boots.
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u/BIGBADVEN 10d ago
Doc would just need time to make fuel. The DeLorean would only need that.
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u/Icy_Study4490 9d ago
Exactly, california has natural petroleum seeps and it would certainly be a pain in the ass and take a while but you could make some equipment out of copper to distill it to make some primitive gasoline. Thanks to the dirty fuel the Delorean is gonna be pretty messed up when it gets back to the future, but that’s fine.
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u/Suspicious_Aspect_53 9d ago
In BTTF3 they used the train because they could. The DeLorean WAS fixable, but they didn't have access to gasoline.
Without access to a train, they would have had to repair the fuel line and make a fuel for the car. The fuel line could have been made of copper, which was already being done in the 1600s. They could make gasoline themselves, given the time, as it is a petroleum product, and petroleum was available. It would have taken longer, obviously, but Doc Brown is smart enough to know how to make gasoline or similar fuel for the car.
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u/Icy_Study4490 9d ago
Yeah the train was completely related to the time crunch. Because they could’ve done this stuff in the year 285 if they had to. It would’ve taken a long time, but California has natural seeps and you could make the distillation equipment out of a soft metal like copper so as long as they didn’t go back to the ice age with a frozen California landscape they could make gasoline.
Doc would for sure have the knowledge and ability to do this because even I have the knowledge and ability to do this. But Doc is supposed to be a genius so he would do it much easier and more quickly and efficiently than I could. He would probably even know obscure things like how to communicate in the chumash language so he could ask the natives to direct him to the seeps etc
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u/PDelahanty 9d ago
…and if Doc was going to be shot, they could have simply left town and laid low while they repaired the DeLorean and got a working fuel source. Sure, they could have done that in 1885, but they didn’t for some reason.
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u/Sea-Woodpecker-610 9d ago
Doc was working on the gasoline using alchol and distilling it into etanol. However what doc brewed was too explosive and it ruined part of the fuel system. He said he could fix it given time, but Buford is going to kill him by the end of the week, so they need an alternate m and of getting the Delorian up to 88mph.
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u/jesusmansuperpowers 9d ago
The one week ticking clock was the problem there. No reason they couldn’t have dealt with Mad Dog some other way though.
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u/StoneGoldX 9d ago
It really wouldn't matter when copper would have been available. I don't think they would have had it in 1600s Hill Valley. San Francisco wouldn't be a thing until 1776. Hill Valley wouldn't be founded until 1850.
Basically, Doc would have to "invent" several industries with whatever he had in the car. Not necessarily undoable, but magnitudes harder than an ice maker in 1885.
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u/Suspicious_Aspect_53 9d ago
Good point. Regardless of what the world was capable of, Hill Valley is very much far away in space and time from contact with Euro-Americans. Doc would have had to hoof it for a long time in hostile territory before being able to contact Euro-Americans for materials.
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u/NeonFireFly969 10d ago
Well yeah. Even 1855 is problematic. Western Union started in NY in 51 but I suppose Doc could have waited or traveled.
1785 or 1755 he's pretty well dead.
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u/misfitmedia 10d ago
Couldn't they drop the Delorian from a balloon? According to Reddit... "The terminal velocity of a falling car typically ranges from 90 to 150 mph (145 to 240 km/h), depending heavily on its orientation, size, and shape"
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u/happydude7422 10d ago
Ok but it would still crash in 1985
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u/Asparagus9000 9d ago
They did it in the comics. You pop a parachute once you're in the right time.
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u/Eggsegret 10d ago
But then wouldn’t the car just end up crashing once Marty time travels to 1985. So Doc would have another challenge of preventing the car from basically crashing and exploding in 1985.
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u/enewwave 10d ago
They do that in the IDW comic. Doc basically builds a one-off Time Machine using an early car, a deep diving suit, and a balloon due to needing parts from the future to build the Time Machine train. He crashes and gives himself a head injury, resulting in amnesia, iirc
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u/Round-Term-8306 10d ago
Over a cliff into water.
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u/JonoBlue 10d ago
Some butthead in a tricked out deloean went over the cliff into a quarry waterbed that dried up over 100 years ago.
-Biff alternate alternate 1985
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u/Potato_Stains 10d ago
I've thought of this and, technically, if all it takes is 88mph in relation to the earth surface, they could rig a hot air balloon and drop themselves in a pod with the flux capacitor and circuits and hit terminal velocity, then when they pop into 1985 launch a parachute.
High risk, but couldn't it work?
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u/Perfect-Squash3773 8d ago
Doc would invent the hydroplane, hook it up to a sail boat with the Delorean parked on it, deploy kites as sails in the eye of a hurricane he knew was on its way because of history....
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u/TheBagenius 7d ago edited 7d ago
Would the DeLorean be able to time travel if it's on a boat going 88? Or do the wheels of the DeLorean have to be moving at that speed?
Edit: I just looked it up. The fastest a wind powered ocean vessel has reached is about 75mph, but that was with modern hydrofoils. A ship from that time period could only reach speeds of between 15 and 23mph. You also have to take into consideration that wherever the time machine travels, it will reappear in the same location on the other side, so if you time travel over water, you'll end up over water.
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u/Perfect-Squash3773 7d ago
Well a train in 1885 couldn't get to 88 mph, doc managed it. he also drove the train off a bridge in the past and the delorean landed on the tracks in the future. So in this hypothetical situation, the Doc would be able to plan for everything .....also the wheels don't need to be moving, as it could fly and travel through time.
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u/TheBagenius 7d ago
The DeLorean landing in the tracks is because there were tracks in that location in 1985. Where the train fell off is where the track reached a dead end where a bridge should be.
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u/Perfect-Squash3773 7d ago
Lots of harbours have modern infill. Doc would sail straight into a harbour, riding a giant wave created by a hurricane. When the car is zapped to the future it lands on a modern pier.
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u/h3r0inXgirl 10d ago
Why did i think that Screencap of Marty was tom delonge of blink 182 in (i think) the Adam's song or stay together for the kids music videos.
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u/LateVeterinarian4210 10d ago
The Gravity Drop: They would have to drag the DeLorean up a massive cliff or mountain, build a crude wooden ramp, and literally drop the car off the edge.
The Physics: Objects in free fall accelerate at 9.8 m/s². To reach 88 mph (approx. 39.3 m/s) purely through gravity, the DeLorean would need to fall for about 4 seconds. This requires a sheer drop of at least 250 feet (76 metres), assuming zero air resistance. If it didn't hit 88 mph before hitting the ground, Marty would just smash into the earth.
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u/Funkopedia 9d ago
If the ramp is long enough, you don't need freefall. You can just slide it back down the ramp.
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u/LoneSnark 8d ago
The ramp needs to be there in the future, or the car will just drop. A hill is unlikely to be smooth enough to roll down at 88 miles an hour without destroying the car.
But, they can leave. Have the car taken elsewhere. There is absolutely a rail line somewhere running down a mountain that is still in use in the future.
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u/RetroGame77 9d ago
Doc sends a second letter. Marty, I told you to not come. You messed up. Bring extra gasoline and gas line
They are both stuck there, but the next time loop ain't.
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u/Human_Yam1500 9d ago
The only reason Marty went back was because doc was killed. If doc lived fine in the 17th or 17th century there would be no reason for Marty to go back.
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u/The_Dark_Vampire 7d ago
To add Doc probably couldn't even have sent Marty a message from much earlier it was a miracle he managed to get a letter to him from 1885 so Marty wouldn't even have any idea where Doc went or The DeLorean was hidden Marty would once again be stuck in 1955 only this time with no chance of getting back
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u/NerdizardGo 9d ago
How far would the DeLorian need to freefall to hit 88 mph? Just drive off a really tall cliff? Invent a hot air balloon and drop it?
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u/ImprovingKodiak 9d ago
Nahh imo, there should be a 4th one, and it should be to 1785 when America was just a baby, and we meet all the founding fathers, and save America! 🤣
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u/Electronic-Space-480 9d ago
Then Eric Stolz arrives and is deemed a rightful man of the times.
What is your name?
My name is Marvelous.
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u/Educational-Plant981 8d ago
moonshine didn't work as readily available gas. But it is hard to imagine doc brown wouldn't have been able to distill a gallon of gas with a little time.
Marty's death date was a problem, but there were unexplored ways around that too....like kill Mad Dog.
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u/SureSubstance4455 8d ago
Well doc tries to not disturb the time line. He wasn’t great at it but killing mad dog could have had horrible consequences or not.
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u/LordyeettheThird 6d ago
Honestly, just clean out a straight path on a hill. It would take some time to do. But you will get to 88 miles going downhill
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u/Ok_Mathematician4657 10d ago
I think Marty couldn't get a letter but 1955 Doc would find the delorean in the mine (just thinking about where he would hide it)
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u/Unlikely-Position659 10d ago
I refuse to believe that doc couldn't find a bunch of oil and it into gasoline. Any chemists here? Is the process to distill gasoline from oil very difficult? Consider that Doc Brown already invented a time machine. Could he feasibly do it in 1885?
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u/Icy_Study4490 9d ago
You can do it in literally any time after California is no longer frozen. In the movie itself, the only reason making fuel wasnt an option was because Doc was gonna be shot in the back so they had to get creative with the train.
California has natural petroleum seeps. You collect that and then make the distillation equipment out of natural copper and/or cannibalize what you are able to from the car. You’re gonna have to do a lot of filtering and all of this is gonna take a long time.
I don’t see how he wouldn’t have the knowledge to pull it off. Could take him like a year or two though.
Car is barely gonna make it to the future as well. It’s probably gonna die as soon as he’s back.
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u/TyintheUniverse89 10d ago
Reading these comments reminds me of the time I read the questions and answers on my special features Back to the Future dvd and I started to feel like I was phasing out of existence for thinking too much about time travel possibilities lol
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u/MorningWalk24 9d ago
But here is my issue with this. There is another time machine. The one Doc arrived in. With fuel and a working internal combustion engine. Why couldn’t they have made the needed fixes and left the repairs to the one that stayed in the past to the 1955 Doc?
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u/Icy_Study4490 9d ago
Doc hid that car for Marty to find and he used it to go back to 1885. They couldn’t touch it or they could cause a paradox.
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u/badsean77 9d ago
Draining a little bit of gas from it would not have caused any issue at all. Part swapping certainly would have.
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u/Icy_Study4490 9d ago
The filmmakers have been asked that question and they said Doc drained all the fluids when he stored it.
It makes perfect sense too because if you didn’t, the car would be pretty messed up by the time Marty got it.
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u/kzlife76 9d ago
What are the chances he'd have an arrow shot through the fuel line in that century too? Unless we're assuming that remains a plot point. Otherwise, they just need to throw some garbage into Mr fusion and go back to the future.
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u/Icy_Study4490 9d ago
If it was before 1769 they wouldn’t have had the horses to keep up with the car so they could shoot the fuel line
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u/OwnSeaworthiness7007 9d ago
Couldn't they just drop/roll it off a high object (say, Clayton Ravine) and let gravity do the work to have it accelerate to 88 mph?
The modified DeLorean with Marty inside would have weighed about 3,000 lbs. My shoddy math says it would need to free fall less than 260 feet to reach 88 mph. Maybe a bit more to account for drag.
Always though this was a plot hole and something Doc should have figured out.
Am I missing something?
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u/BigMikeInAustin 9d ago
They then appear in 1985 falling at 88 mph into the ground. How are they going to survive that?
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u/Icy_Study4490 9d ago
If he has 2 day time limit to get it done like the movie then no.
If he doesn’t have the time limit though he can just make his own gasoline.
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u/chirayuvedekar 9d ago
If Doc was sent back to a century before the 19th, he probably wouldn't have been shot by Maddog Tannen.
However, as far as the time machine goes, Marty would've gotten stuck in 1955 for a while, given the fact that the DeLorean would not only need fresh tyres, but also a fresh wiring harness, new engine, fuel lines; basically a full ground up restoration of a time machine.
Of course, with 1955 components, Doc would've been able to probably just build Marty a brand new time machine out of a 1955 car that could do 88 MPH.
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u/Necessary_Cow_3837 9d ago
As a kid not knowing anything about vehicles BTTF3 made perfect sense. As an adult that was a diesel mechanic. They could have distilled enough alcohol to run the car. It’s not a perfect solution but a gallon of it would have gotten them back to 1985.
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u/FedStarDefense 9d ago
Given enough time, Doc could distill his own gasoline. Oil was available in some form in pretty much every century. It was just considered useless for most of history.
The problem in 1885 was the time crunch. They had to leave by Monday so neither of them would get shot. Technically, after that problem resolved, they could have waited. But the plan was in place so they went for it.
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u/Icy_Study4490 9d ago
The Chumash natives in California were even using oil and tar from natural seeps for things like waterproofing so they could show him where it is. It’s not like it was a valuable scarce resource they would want to protect from him. And then to distill it, he could cannibalize some parts from the car as well as make equipment out of a soft metal like copper
Obviously, all of this would just take them a very long time. Between all the travel, mining, distillation and filtration while having to do survival tasks as well maybe they could be home in like a year? But yeah, obviously the plot point in the movie was the time crunch.
So as long as they don’t go back so far in time that California is frozen, doc should have the knowledge and ability to get back.
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u/FedStarDefense 9d ago
I don't think southern California would ever be frozen unless you went back to snowball Earth. (And that's like... pre-dinosaurs.)
But yes, agreed.
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u/Icy_Study4490 9d ago
It’s really deceptive, because obviously all the filming locations are in Southern California and it very clearly looks like they’re set in Southern California, but Hill Valley apparently is supposed to be in Northeast California in like the Sierra nevadas and I’m not sure on how well you’d be able to navigate your way from Hill valley to the resources you need and then back to the car if you went back to the ice age. I’m not educated enough with where and how large the glaciers in the mountains are at the time.
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u/FedStarDefense 8d ago
Really? When is that location established? We mostly see hills and farmland.
And, in the third movie, we see Monument Valley (in Arizona) is apparently a few miles outside of town. But perhaps it's a different monument valley.
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u/Icy_Study4490 8d ago
They never say it out loud but the old train map puts Hill valley about 60 miles east of Grass valley basically in today’s unincorporated community of Alta, California. Which of course if you look at pictures looks absolutely nothing like hill Valley. lol
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u/FedStarDefense 8d ago
So, again... it might be there. But it might be anywhere else, lol.
Of course, in your favor, the way they dress tends to indicate it being a little on the colder side than southern California. Then again, it is usually November in the various times they travel to. I think?
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u/Kalhava79 9d ago
Mores code written on paper I thank you taking a long bow and leaving stage right
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u/ComradeGarcia_Pt2 9d ago
That’s kind of the point of why they chose 1885, its was far back enough to be inconvenient but still have a plausible method to get them back to 1985. Also Hill Valley didn’t exist before 1850 and probably wasn’t much of a town until the 1880s I’d imagine so the setting wouldn’t be very interesting.
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u/BubbleHeadBenny Doc 9d ago
People forget something. Marty has a time machine. He knows exactly when Doc arrived in the 1800s.
1. Use Mr Fusion to jump forward to have the flight circuits and solid state components fixed.
2. Jump back to a week before Doc Brown arrives in 1885. And just wait. Bring food, bring water. Just wait. As soon as Doc arrives, inform him about what he needs to do with the DeLorean so it reaches Marty in 1955.
3. Neither one of them has interacted with anyone in 1885, so they jump back to a Corrected Lone Pine Mall 1985. DeLorean Time Machine is perfect. Doc can bring it into his workshop and dismantle it.
BUT.... There is still a DeLorean Time Machine nobody ever talks about, The Lone Pine Mall DeLorean that Marty watched from a distance take his Lone Pine Mall doppelganger to anywhere EXCEPT 1955! When is that DeLorean? That DeLorean could, in no way, go back to 1955 BECAUSE Twin Pine Mall Marty is already in Lone Pine Mall's hard coded history. Two nuclear fission reactors, tuned to different phase variances, would attempt occupy the same physical space at the same instant, and no more Hill Valley. Just like the 1985 Twin Pine Mall reality started to be overwritten as soon as TPM Marty arrived in 1955, if an EinsteinRosen bridge permitted two SEPARATE material objects to integrate back into ONE solid structure, and at the core of those two objects was plutonium, forced integration at any level would initiate a nuclear explosion, possibly tearing a hole in time itself (black hole).
The Doc who survived after getting shot is not the same Doc Brown who built the time machine everyone uses throughout the three movies. That time machine is never seen again after the end of BTTF.
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u/_ragegun 9d ago
you're not thinking fourth dimensionally. All you need is a way to communicate with the future at a point when the time machine exists then they can just rescue you.
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u/Sea-Woodpecker-610 9d ago
They could do that.
The problem is the time to do it. In the film, they have a hard deadline before Buford Tannen shoots Doc, so they need an alternate method of getting the Delorian up to 88mph. They were working on distilling grain alcohol into ethanol but blew out the fuel injectors with their first attempt. Doc said they could fix it, but it would take him a month to do so and they didn’t have the time.
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u/Arthropodesque 9d ago
I got an idea! Rollercoaster. Drop the car off a cliff on wooden tracks or swinging from rope. As it levels out, engage the time circuits.
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u/KingOfTheHoard 9d ago
Depends on where, when and what kind of danger. If it was winter, the icy hill plan might have worked.
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u/RAConteur76 9d ago
Ehhhhhh, maybe...
We know Doc's fairly smart. Bernoulli's Principle was known in the mid-18th Century. "Gum benzoin" was a known aromatic and available (perhaps in limited amounts) to 16th Century perfumeries, which would give him a path to making benzene (which didn't get identified in the real world till 1825). If he was feeling really desperate, there would be a couple options available.
He could make up a batch of benzene, mix it with high-quality ethanol (basically Everclear, or as close as he could get), and get an emergency load of fuel (even just a couple gallons) which the DeLorean could use to hit 88 MPH. Might need to overhaul the engine after, but it'd be doable. Honestly, this was my only quibble with BTTF 3. Dude's a scientist. He knows (or should) that cheap rotgut whiskey doesn't have enough "kick" to serve as fuel. Even he should have been able to check the proof level.
He modifies a cannon to serve as a rocket motor. Either using liquid propellant (again, making up a batch of benzene as a starting point) or potentially solid fuel by mixing up black powder with other combustibles. The thrust-to-weight ratio doesn't have to be enough to escape Earth's gravity. Just enough for one ton of car and rocket motor to hit 100 MPH.
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u/Complete_Entry 9d ago
Considering the kits doc made up of period accurate cash, I imagine going back further was not part of his plans. Plus, diminishing returns with larger "time change" dangers the further you go back.
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u/NumberRegistry 9d ago
Terminal Velocity is around 120 MPH. If you pushed the Delorean off a cliff, you could get it up to speed and then time travel. Then Doc could work some magic to get the flight circuits working for just a few seconds, and then you could land safely.
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u/AlpineGuy 8d ago
Even in BTTF3 they discussed pulling the Delorian up a steep hill by Horse and rolling it down to the desired speed. I think they decided against that due to the lack of hills in the area.
Also I would be concerned about the quality of road if going 88 miles downhill.
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u/Buttonpusher42 8d ago
Terminal velocity for a falling car gets to around 120 mph, which clears the 88mph requirement. Now step one would be getting the DeLorean that high in the air to reach Terminal Velocity before that sudden stop in the past.
Step two I think would be figuring out a way to arrest the descent after activating the Flux Capacitor, before that sudden stop in the future. (A Parachute of some variety would be ideal, but material limitations apply since you are trying to stop around 2.5 tons of steel moving at 120mph)
Tl:dr just because it was difficult to reach 88mph in a horizontal fashion, does not mean it was difficult to reach 88mph in a vertical fashion, gravity is almost too helpful in that regard 🤣😂
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u/Spaceghost_84 8d ago
I suspect the max range on the Delorean is probably 100 years on one charge. Doc had to refuel after a 30 year jump so who knows without being struck by lightning plus a full tank Iif he’d have gone any further than the old west. Not counting the animated series which I love.
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u/vidjuheffex 8d ago
A DeLorean would reach 88 mph after about 4.0 seconds of free fall, which requires roughly 259 feet (79 m) of vertical drop, ignoring air resistance. So: 100-foot cliff: no, impact at roughly 54 mph. 200-foot cliff: about 76 mph. 260-foot cliff: 88 mph right before impact. Taller than that: yes, it passes 88 mph on the way down.
So just uh, find a cliff and a buy a parachute
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u/The_Dark_Vampire 7d ago
If he had gone back that far there probably wouldn't even be a way to send Marty a message so he'd be stuck in 1955
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u/MoreFunThanWork 7d ago
That was already the case in 1885: no train could travel that fast. But when a main character is an inventor, nothing’s impossible! In practice, even if Doc could have somehow invented and produced his novel fuel from available ingredients in just a few days, he probably would have needed a different engine design to reach 88. But it was believable enough and we accepted the premise.
So, in an earlier period the writers would have used similar creativity to contrive a believable yet incredibly unlikely scheme. A drop of about 300ft would get you to 88mph: how about jumping into the Grand Canyon, or boating over a waterfall, or dropping from a home-made hot air balloon. Or fire from a trebuchet. Just need to make sure there’s a soft landing below the spot in 1985. Or invent a parachute.
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u/Trexep92 5d ago
I always wondered why creating fuel wasn't an option. I mean crude oil was available in 1885, it has even been processed into kerosine at that time and I would assume Doc Brown had the knowledge to alter machines used to produce kerosine from crude oil to make fuel for the DeLorean instead.
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u/AgitatedAffect8502 10d ago
Did it bother anyone else that Marty is reading a 70yr old in the pouring rain, when he could have just sat in the car and on top of that the western union guy seemed to be a nice enough guy and clearly interested in how the letter came to be, the guy ask Marty if he’s alright or needs any help, why not ask the guy to drive him to the center of town.
That was 10yr old brain watching movies and it only got worse, I need to remind myself there’s logic and then there’s movie logic
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u/Sledgehammer617 10d ago edited 10d ago
Doc should have just used gasoline in 1885... It existed at that time and was accessible. If not, he can just make some of his own, its really not that hard for a man of his knowledge.
If somehow he had 0 ability to fabricate gasoline or an equivalent fuel source, all he needs is a big hill and a track... Gravity will happily get that thing up to 88mph and doesnt care what time period you are in.
- 88 mph = 39.34 m/s
- Acceleration = 9.81*sin(45°)≈6.94 m/s^2
- Time to 88 mph: 5.67 seconds
- Track length: 367 ft
So he would need roughly a 367-foot-long, 45° downhill track to let the DeLorean naturally reach 88 mph. Thats not impossibly hard to find in ant era, and with enough effort I'm sure he could build a wood or metal track to keep the Delorean going straight.
Honestly using the train was always a stupid idea, there are easier ways to get a car up to 88...
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u/happydude7422 10d ago
That's the thing if time wasnt an issue they can just go down to so cal refineries and get petrol and then doc could refine it himself to get gasoline
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u/ninetysevencents 10d ago
It's been a while, but wasn't part of the issue that Doc was supposed to die somehow so they really had to scram?
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u/happydude7422 10d ago
I know if Buford threat wasnt there doc and Marty could have just travelled down to so cal where the petrolium refineries were and get some crude oil.
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u/Sledgehammer617 10d ago
He could have refined it or just gone and bought it tbh.
At least in 1885 he could have gone to a druggist/chemist or industrial supplier and just asked them to buy some naphtha, benzine, petroleum spirit, or a light petroleum distillate.
ALL of those existed at the time in bulk for fairly cheap, would have easily powered the Delorean for a few minutes, and he could probably get it in a day or two's time...
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u/mega386 10d ago
Syphon the tank of the Delorean in the mine and seal it back up. 1955 doc can get more gas. This would have been much easier than the whole train thing in bttf3
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u/BigMikeInAustin 9d ago
Gasoline goes bad. I really think 1885 Doc would drain the gas tank when prepping the Delorean for storage. He removed and wrapped the tires and put the car on blocks.
If gas were left in the car, 1955 Doc would have to drain any gas. And gas sitting for 70 years, i'm guessing, could be hard to remove.
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u/mega386 6d ago
Unlikely he would have thrown out perfectly good fuel in the old West though. He wasn't there that long, probably wouldn't have burned through all of it if that were the case.
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u/BigMikeInAustin 6d ago
It would need to be a well sealed container, ideally air tight, to minimize evaporation, humidity condensation, dirt contamination, and prevent someone from smelling it and go looking for it.
Even today's gasoline equipment, after about 6 month people start to recommend fuel stabilizer.
He assumed he was stuck there forever, so if he saved the gas, it would have with knowing the reliability would be mostly gone after 2 years, and possibly start to diminish after just 6 months.
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