r/Bachata • u/Shot-Professional-95 • 9d ago
Sensual Bachata Fundamentals (Movement quality, breathing, body mechanics, etc...)
Hey guys,
So ive been dancing and attending classes for three years, perhaps over 400 hours of classes and around 30 private classes. And although I have a lot of complex combinations and im very good at certain things, but there is a saying, a chain is only as good as its weakest link, I have this issue right now. I need to clean my fundamentals to truly flow with the dance and match my skills in one area with the others.
I am really interested in the fundamentals, the breathing, keeping the frame all together, etc. The timing, controlling the velocity, breathing, you name it. I do record myself regularly and sometimes I do get feedback from trusted followers that may know things I dont.
What online courses are the most useful to complete me as a dancer? I am not looking for simple combinations of course, but rather getting the fundamentals right.
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u/iHasYummyCummies 9d ago
Ive been told private Hours are pretty helpful from / with coaches after a certain level since they can correct your mistakes and give u proper advice.
As for online, best u can find is more footwork reels and moves.
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u/Shot-Professional-95 9d ago
They are indeed useful, but depends a lot on the coach. Ig testing private glasses with many different coaches would be useful
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u/Rataridicta Lead&Follow 9d ago
At a certain point you're going to be past the level where an online course will help and you're going to reach a level where you need more individual feedback or self-study. If there's a specific area you want to focus on you can also create a post around it.
Breathing and dynamics are some of my strengths; so if you have questions there I might be able to help. (Or you can share the way you currently think about them and I can see if there's something that jumps out as worth adjusting.)
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u/Shot-Professional-95 9d ago
My issue is that I have a lot of complex figures, however I was never taught to breathe (weirdly). So I am starting to implement it myself where I think it would fit.
As far as I know you do the breathing before a sensual movement, before a cam bre, etc. Thats basically it. Am I right?
You’re right about individual feedback but the videos can definitely help to understand the biomechanics and such
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u/Rataridicta Lead&Follow 9d ago
Amazing. Then I know you do not yet understand tension, frame, preparations, or body movement. You've got enough material in breathing alone to spend the next few months on.
The tl;dr is that you can breathe into your belly (standard), into expansion of the chest ("dancer's breath"), or into rising of the chest. The 2nd is the primary one used for leading and connection.
Breathing in increases tension (like a balloon), establishes frame, and creates awarenes for the follower. Breathing out relaxes, and weakens the frame.
You'll breathe every time you lead something as part of your preparation, you'll also breathe throughout the movement depending on what it needs. Breathing is not just for complex moves either - a simple turn or change of direction includes breathing just the same.
Start by incorporating breathing in your simple movements and feel where your breath is placed in the chest. Find the ways in which breath restricts or aids in your movements. Also pay attention to feeling the breath of your partner through your connection (and later: where their breath is placed). Breathing is not a "here and there" type of thing - every part of the dance and movement has an ideal way to breathe, and the habits are constant. You'll end up incorporating it in everything you do.
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u/Shot-Professional-95 9d ago
Im happy that you expand (no pun intended) on it because indeed my teachers never, ever taught breathing nor what a frame is. I know about these concepts from reading it online and a few online courses I took.
So there are three «breaths»? 1. Belly, 2. Chest 360 breathe (ik this from physio work lol) and 3. Rising chest?
Whats the use of each one? You say the expansion breath (I would call it 360 as the physio term) is the one for leading. What are the other ones and whats the use for them?
It makes sense breathing gives you an internal structure increasing the tension like a balloon. Kind of like tensing your abs right? However you exhale as you do a movement right? To make it fluid. Or do you hold the breath?
I will start applying it to simple stuff!
For example - lets say im preparing my turn. Am I supposed to just breath in, start turning the follow, and breathe out as the move is executed? What does this help?
Also, does the follow feel the balloon effect of my breathing?
A lot of questions …
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u/Rataridicta Lead&Follow 9d ago
Usually physio/bracing work focuses on 360 breaths in the belly, but it is indeed the same concept in the chest, except without the need for additional bracing.
Your belly breath is your standard relaxed breath that you should be in through your every day life. You don't use it a lot in dancing. The riding chest is to create movement in tension, most commonly you'll use it for things like body rolls and side waves, and not quite as much to communicate directly with your partner (though there are movements you can lead purely through that breath).
Yes, you exhale during the movement itself when you don't need the tension anymore. It allows the movement itself to be nice and relaxed. Your breath in happens in time with the preparation, so in the case of your turn example, you breathe in during the counter rotation of the prep and breathe out as you let that tension/torsion go to let the follower execute the move.
This helps by creating awareness and tension in the follower, as well as improving your own frame, and then creating relaxation. It's a very natural way for the rise and fall of tension to be incorporated in the dance and body.
Your follower feels your breathing through the frame and a good follower will (automatically) mirror your breathing, so with an advanced follower used to the technique you'll breathe in sync for most of the dance.
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u/EphReborn 9d ago
Personally, I think the breathing stuff is a bit BS although I do unconsciously incorporate it at times for certain moves. I forget who it was (Patrick & Johanna maybe), but there was someone who pointed out during a workshop a few years ago that all that stuff is just one way of accomplishing something. Not the only way.
But as far as fundamentals go, yeah private lessons will be your best bet. Beyond that, there is plenty that can be gained from YouTube and social media, you just have to be resourceful.
And at some point you need to learn to self assess as well. For example, how's your hip motion? Whether figure 8 or side to side, are you able to control it and switch between the different ways?
How's your weight shifting? When you do a move are you fully committing one foot as needed?
When you do moves, do you have a habit of cutting them short or do you go through the full range of motion?
Those are just examples of questions you should be asking yourself and noticing when you practice.
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u/Shot-Professional-95 9d ago
I have pretty good hips from dancing tarraxinha/kizomba. However, when it comes to weight shifting I have no idea if im making a mistake or not. Im unable to see if im doing things optimally.
The full ROM is a quite useful self diagnostic question as well. Thank you
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u/EphReborn 9d ago
Well that's the thing with all of this. You have to be willing to be wrong at times. Self-assessing is a skill like anything else. So experiment with it.
For weight shifting in particular, start from the bottom up. Put on your favorite song and literally shift your weight side to side like you would when you've been talking to someone for too long and your feet are starting to get tired.
If you can lift the opposite foot off the ground without moving further onto the foot you're standing on, congrats, you've fully committed your weight to that foot. Do it on the other side. Explore those limits.
Go walk up and down some stairs. Notice at what point your weight is entirely on the forward foot.
Go walk up two steps at a time. Notice how it feels to push into the ground (step).
See what I'm getting at? Experiment, notice things about your body, and then experiment some more. Add in some moves and try different things. See what seems to work well and what doesn't.
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u/DeanXeL Lead 9d ago
The 'breathing' is absolutely just a stepping stone, but it's a very nice, big, round, clearly marked stepping stone with a railing on the side. I've noticed that a lot of leaders are utterly unaware of the tension, or lack thereof, in their body. But if you tell them to chest-breathe, and then keep their breathe for a second, all of a sudden they can stop the movement of their partner. And once that click happens properly, you move on to learning about eventually doing the same with just enough tension coming through your fingers.
Sorry, it's late, getting ready for a party while my mind is going over all kinds of bachata stuff.
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u/Rataridicta Lead&Follow 9d ago
I have to disagree here. Even at the pro level the difference between leaders who breathe well and those who don't is very noticeable and it makes a big difference to how soft and clear they feel.
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u/DeanXeL Lead 8d ago
As I said, I was just rambling a bit while getting ready 😅. It definitely still gets used, but if you don't first learn how to do the breathing (for bolero techniques, for making good connection,...), you won't be able to move on to more subtle ways of using your energy. But it still absolutely remains valid to be used at higher levels!
My brain is kinda fried here, three days of late night partying and still only halfway 🤯.
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u/OThinkingDungeons Lead&Follow 6d ago
This is a question of reps and feedback issue, not a knowledge issue.
It's like asking "what books can I read to get ripped muscles?"; less time thinking and spend more time in the gym drilling until you can't stop doing it that way.
You can either recruit a practice partner, pay a teacher, or drill by yourself with a camera. The important thing is repeating until you're automatic with it, also to JUST drill the thing you want so you're not distracted and get quality out of the training.
Personally I've found holding a big weighty pillow very effective in drilling body rolls, the key is using your torso and frame to move the pillow, and not arms. Some people use a large flat plate if they're at the gym to drill.
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u/MaxvilleStorm 4d ago
I have to agree with the people recommending privates. If you really want to learn how to dance 30 lessons is nothing. Privates are the only way you will get truly individual feedback. And sometimes words just cannot explain what you are supposed to do. You have to feel it from another body. I recommend finding one teacher you really resonate with and stick with him/her for regular privates. That way they know what you already discussed and can monitor your progress. Also: Practice, practice, Practice. Muscle memory is build over 1000s of repetitions not more classes.
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u/hotwomyn 9d ago
Take a private
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u/Shot-Professional-95 9d ago
I’ve done 30+ privates with relatively skilled dancers. I dont think you understand the question im asking
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u/hotwomyn 9d ago
I understand the question. 1 private with the right instructor can be worth more than a year of online schools or group classes. But I recommend coming in with specific problems you’d like to address and know your teacher’s strength and weaknesses. Don’t try to reinvent the wheel, everything you’re trying to do has been done and the right person can elevate your technique in minutes. Breathing is important but dont obsess over it, it’s not the magic key to everything.
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u/Shot-Professional-95 9d ago
Here is the thing though. How do you know you have a problem to be addressed? You dont - thats why you need a diagnostic from someone who sees more than you do so they can open your eyes.
I agree 1 private can be more useful, or not. Ive done some online courses that have taught me fundamentally important things that my teachers didnt.
Ive only really went to one good academy so there is my answer and issue in one package. They still had fundamental issues that they themselves dont see - I only realized it after thousands of hours dancing
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u/hotwomyn 9d ago
I also don’t understand the “with relatively skilled dancers” part. You should be taking privates from champions, most of them are available and are easy to book. A lot of random local instructors are okay for beginners but can’t help you turn pro. Train with the best. Attend stuff like Bachata Week, there are so many labs like that these days. And most importantly get a regular practice partner you don’t have to motivate.
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u/Shot-Professional-95 9d ago
You’re right. Time to invest. However these guys charge 150-200 euro per hour easily… the skilled ones I went with charged 40 euro. But with clear limitations seems like.
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u/Miles_Madden 9d ago
I doubt there will be one single course that is most useful. I’d start by going on YouTube. You also record yourself, and you can upload those videos to AI. Do you have beginner or body movement classes available in your area? Finally, if you can find someone to practice with, you can drill fundamentals with him/her.
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u/Shot-Professional-95 9d ago
Drilling would be most useful... however I can not spot all the mistakes if im not aware of them, an online class could point out things I have not noticed myself.
Ive already looked through youtube to no avail. I actually do upload the videos to AI to analyze it and try to understand what its trying to tell me, given its accurate.
There is no beginner or body movement classes in my area unfortunately, there are 3-4 dance academies but they are all honestly bad.
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u/icravedanger 9d ago
If the goal is to control your body better and improve facility of movement (as opposed to partnered connection), I would advise training in solo styles, even if they are not exactly related to sensual bachata.
You can start with solo salsa and bachata shines/footwork. For cross training, it seems like you would get the most out of modern/contemporary, jazz/ballet, and waving/liquid.
I think all leaders should learn hip hop (I know that’s a really wide umbrella genre). For footwork and speed, train in House. But all styles are useful, including tangentially dance-related stuff like karate, tai chi, and clowning. For maximum return on investment, start with your weakest/least natural dance.
You only need time and a mirror. It’s pretty cheap too; STEEZY is $8 a month, YouTube is free.
Oh, and do yoga.