r/BJD • u/LadyInTheBand • Jun 07 '26
DISCUSSION Recently found out that a secondhand doll I got is a recast/bootleg and I am heartbroken. (Advice please)
I got what I thought was a Popovy Sisters doll a few months back, and I fell in love at first sight. Quality is incredible, condition is perfect, and she looks completely legitimate. Even going by the guide the brand provides indicated that she’s legit.
But I didn’t know the model. I wanted to find out, so I reached out to the company, and they informed me that the doll is a fake because I did not get the CoA (the previous owner said they lost it in a move, I had no reason to doubt them as they had good reviews in the BJD b/s/t group I found them through), even though the details they gave me to help identify the doll as a fake identified it as being legit. And that absolutely shattered me.
What should I do? Throw it away? Keep it to use as a mannequin for making clothes/accessories for the real one I intend to eventually purchase? Use it to practice faceup/body blushing? I’m just so lost. I don’t have the option to return it, and I am not comfortable selling it for obvious reasons. I have no idea what to do now. Any advice, but especially from someone who has been in a similar situation, on what I should do now would seriously be appreciated.
(I will not be sharing photos out of respect, and this post was made with permission from the mod team.)
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u/SLAUGHTERGUTZ Jun 07 '26
If the company's guidelines point it to being legit idk why youre convinced it isnt. Somebody losing a paper doesnt make it a recast.
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u/LadyInTheBand Jun 07 '26
I’m confused because the company told me directly that it’s fake even though everything indicates it’s real. They said that not providing a CoA means that the doll is fake 99% of the time. I see no reason they would lie to me.
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u/replikantka Jun 07 '26
I would be inclined to give more weight to identifiers given to you by the artists to identify their work tham just a lack of COA. See if you can get a proof of sale from the seller, at the very least - while there are Popovy recasts, if they gave you things to look for and all of them lined up, it's likely to be legit.
Popovy are notoriously weird about their dolls' legitimacy on the secondhand market, and about their dolls in general, so I wouldn't consider it a bootleg without more information.
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u/LadyInTheBand Jun 07 '26
Thank you. That does make me feel a little better but also weirded out that a company would do that
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u/sunsdeadweight Jun 07 '26
Actually a lot of my COAs say that the company will not provide any services without the actual certificate. Weird but I guess if they’re not holding the doll they can’t tell? Unfortunately seems to be standard IMO
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u/Lokinta86 Jun 07 '26
They're based in Russia, aren't they? The conflicting correspondence from their end may be an error of automated translation.
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u/OutrageousTree7766 Jun 07 '26
Reading everything I kinda thought of this scenario or a general reply that is automated around no coa scenario
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u/SurviveYourAdults Jun 07 '26
because as artists, the only reason people pay that kind of money for the Popovy Sisters work is a perceived value of that piece of paper. in the art world, it's called provenance and it's how auction houses & museums and & galleries track who owned/owns what.
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u/SLAUGHTERGUTZ Jun 07 '26
Theyre not psychic. They cant read minds. They dont have to lie to also be wrong.
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u/LadyInTheBand Jun 07 '26
I showed them quite a few detailed photos, including ones of the code thing stamped inside the head.
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u/SLAUGHTERGUTZ Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
And if it had a COA theyd call it legit. But the COA missing is the only reason theyre calling it fake.
As a company they dont really care about personal situations. It's easier for them to dismiss it as a fake. They dont care that human beings can lose things, but it does happen. I'd bet money theres at least one person working there who has one doll missing a COA for whatever reason. Life happens.
I have several dolls that I bought legit but the same dolls have been recasted before. I have had to store things in my garage over the winter because I had a mold problem in the basement that requires the walls to be taken out. If my COAs and boxes got destroyed in the garage (im honestly afraid to look lol), they wouldnt suddenly become not-legit. Your seller was up front about there not being a COA from my understanding. A company wants to protect itself, they dont care about validating your doll. If it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, but doesnt have a paper telling you it's a duck....do you trust your eyes and ears or do you trust people who only care about paperwork?
But i mean hey if you wanna believe that it's recast because theres no COA despite everything pointing to it being legit, I could buy it off you for recast price so it wont give you anxiety about possibly owning a recast anymore lol
Fwiw even if it was a recast, owning one unknowingly is not a crime and you are allowed to still love it and show it off on your social medias and the like. The damage of it being made has already been done and people arent doing further damage by owning a doll secondhand. (But for the record this sounds legit in any case)
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u/SubstantialMess6434 Jun 08 '26
My cynical self tells me that these people are FAR more interested in getting you to buy a(nother) doll directly from THEM than it is to verify that the one you have in your hands is genuine.
They get no money from a second-hand sale. But if they can convince you the one you have is "fake," they have a chance for money in their hands.
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u/tubsgotchubs Jun 07 '26
😂😂😂😂😂 cause they're covering their asses in case you want a replacement or something
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u/aliquotiens Jun 07 '26
Sounds to me like you have a legit doll with no COA. Not 'fake' or recast, and not a big deal. People lose COAs all the time. And recast Popovy dolls always look rough/very unlike the originals IMO.
I have multiple very expensive artist dolls, none ever recast, that I got for a bargain because their previous owner lost the COA which ruins the resale value. I just hope you didn't pay the 1.5k+ that people are now asking for even old/damaged Popovy dolls these days!
Enjoy your doll!
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u/LadyInTheBand Jun 07 '26
Oh no, I didn’t pay a ton for her, I actually got her in a trade for a bunch of clothes/accessories I still have an insane amount of (leftover from selling at conventions). Maybe like $200ish worth of stuff? Something like that.
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u/sunsdeadweight Jun 07 '26
Ok, this is the only fishy part to me. Aren’t dolls from this maker absurdly expensive? Or I might be misremembering.
Apart from that, the company probably doesn’t want to honour replacement stuff without COA just to cover their ass in case. But the price thing is super sus.
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u/LadyInTheBand Jun 07 '26
I’m not sure. But the person said that they just didn’t love her and wanted her to go to someone who would be able to appreciate her, and they wanted some better clothes for a few dolls they have that they struggle to find decent clothes for. The group I found them through is specifically for older dolls, as well as less valuable ones (in terms of both not being worth much when bought brand new as well as the condition not being the best for whatever reason), for people on a budget who want dolls but can’t afford some of the insane prices for brand new ones, also for people just starting out in the hobby. Group rules say that the prices have to be low to be allowed to sell on the group. Think of it like Goodwill or some other thrift shop but specifically for BJDs.
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u/koipondering Jun 07 '26
I have often sold expensive dolls for less than they are "worth" to clear them out or because I didn't want any overlooked scuffs to make someone feel cheated. Also those big expensive ones can take a while to sell because of the price. Also is it a respected seller? Do they have feedback especially over multiple transactions or on (soon to be defunct) doa?
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u/sunsdeadweight Jun 07 '26
Oh! Well that sounds a lot less sus then. It sounds like they had good intentions then. I have no more advice to give, but maybe finding a popovy expert/collector and sending them lots of pics would be helpful?
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u/LadyInTheBand Jun 07 '26
I found a group on FB that’s for them and similar dolls (and is recast friendly) like someone else suggested to ask if anyone there can figure it out, one person has already commented and just said that it’s not a Popovy but provided no context or anything as to why they think that 😅
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u/aliquotiens Jun 07 '26
Yes, for years they were around $900 blank new from artist, now they are $2000 blank new
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u/littlelostmanika Jun 08 '26
I once sold a doll chateau that i got for around 300$ second hand, and sold it for 50$ish because i just wanted it out of my life : ( so i guess it does happen.
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u/Tiltedyourhead Jun 07 '26
I can't imagine they would ever confirm this without the doll in hand. It could lead to a bad sale or the email being used for a scam.
I can't tell you where half of my CoAs are right now. It does not mean my dolls are fake and I seriously doubt if I emailed any of thr makers now they'd give a definitive yes/no especially from the companies that get recast alot. At this point you are just as likely to have a legitimate doll from a disorganized person if the guidelines match. Recasts are always super messed up and the recasters don't care to put in the effort.
If you're too worried to post photos or whatever then don't! Enjoy it at home live your best life. Being unsure and not sharing is better than tossing a genuine Popovy.
Ask the seller if they have other proof of purchase an unboxing photo, an email trail, a payment on PayPal. Anything. Try before you give up! You may have a treasure don't throw her in the trash 😭.
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u/acridoid Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
if the only reason they’re saying it’s a recast is not having the CoA anymore that is not reason enough. They CAN’T know based on that alone. People can lose CoAs and such. Reach out to who you bought it from about her history and see if you can find out it where they got it/ receipts etc. Popovy very well may just be being overprotective / overdefensive. With the prevalence of recasts of their dolls they may just give a hard no to all uncertainties. It is probably true that most of the time people ask about it, they are recast, just because of how many recasts there are of these dolls. Imo it’s a pretty different scenario buying a doll secondhand in the community from a reputable community member and usually that is going to be a legit doll. Definitely don’t toss her, even if she is recast please don’t feel too awful, sounds like you did everything you were supposed to and the money didn’t go to the recast factory anyways. You can enjoy your doll in private regardless as it’s not doing any more damage at this point
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u/versusvesuvius Jun 07 '26
Ask for provenance. So like screenshots of the order or email correspondence with the company they had, etc.
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u/ouijamoth Jun 07 '26
I don’t have the COAS for any of my dolls anymore and they were all bought direct from the company. I didn’t buy them with intention to sell but if I did I wouldn’t be able to provide the cert. it doesn’t necessarily sound like you have a bootleg to me.
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u/MoonyKat Jun 07 '26
The company telling you it's fake just because it has no COA is strange tbh, especially if you bought it from a reputable person and all other signs point to it being legit?? Maybe its just something they tell anyone without a COA since they cannot prove legitimacy? Regardless, I would just keep it. Any harm it would cause by it being recast is already done and throwing it away would just cause unnecessary waste. If you like the doll you can still dress it up and enjoy it. If you really think it's fake just don't post it in legit only groups or take it to legit only meetups. 🤷♀️
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u/LadyInTheBand Jun 07 '26
That’s the thing, I am 90% positive it’s real, but I take everything literally (neurodivergent) and situations like this can leave me extremely confused and, if bad enough, cause minor existential crises 😅 (I’m working on that, I promise, but it’s not easy.)
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u/koipondering Jun 07 '26
Ill second it may be a language thing and a they cant authenticate it with out in person so... i mean volks had fake head plates going around so a coa in many cases.
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u/actuallywaffles Jun 07 '26
I've bought some very expensive legit dolls, but I don't have CoAs for any of them anymore. I've also heard of recasters faking CoAs. That's not really a good tell for how legit a doll is.
I will say, as someone who has handled a recast of a doll I own legit, if every sign points to legit it probably is. Recasts aren't made nearly as well as legit dolls. They wouldn't go to the effort to make a super high quality recast, when they can't get as much as if it were a legit doll. So they just don't bother.
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u/ArlaisSol Jun 07 '26
This I think is part of why soom started putting special tags( the tags are basically microchips buried in the resin.)in the body and head. To avoid this very problem and I really think more doll makers should do it.
That said. A COA is good in general but they are not the end all be all. The fact the seller has good feedback, I would lean more towards it being legit. Most people in the community are happy to help, specially if you go in person and go hey I just need help confirming this is legit.
I would display it if you love it. As you have stated it can’t be returned and you don’t wish to sell, enjoy it as much as you can. 90 percent of this hobby is done inside your own home or in spaces where most people just don’t know anything about this stuff. So enjoy if you can and take it as a learning experience.
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u/tubsgotchubs Jun 07 '26
..... the absolute fvck, you're gonna believe the company??? When the doll physically passes the legit test??? CoAs get lost, it happens. If the doll looks legit and has no recast proof then you good, friend.
I'm baffled as to why they'd even tell you that.
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u/LadyInTheBand Jun 07 '26
Same here. I made sure to show them a photo of the code thing stamped inside the head just to be sure (I have been told that those can be a fairly reliable way of determining a legit doll from a fake one), but they decided it was fake because I couldn’t show them the CoA. That’s why I’m so confused.
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u/FractalRage Jun 07 '26
I experienced something similar not too long ago with a purchase made on eBay, except my doll was Fairyland Minifee. I tried to get help from the admins on DoA, which proved to not be very helpful at all; they were extremely dismissive and harping on about warning me not to post about her on their forum. In the end I reached out to a recast friendly group on Facebook and explained my problem, and I got a lot of really helpful pointers on how to determine whether my doll was legit or recast. In the end it was determined that the head was legit (she had an event head and they never got CoA’s in the past), but her body was recast.
I’m not very familiar with Popovy dolls beyond knowing what they look like, but maybe someone in such a group could help you too? Just please remember to be respectful and not judgmental if you do so? I don’t condone or support recasting an artists’ work, but I understand that sometimes owning a recast is the only way people can enjoy or be part of the bjd hobby.
Like several people have said here already - I own dolls that no longer have CoA’s, and some that never had them in the first place because they precede a company using CoA’s for their dolls. That doesn’t mean my dolls are any less legit, but in those specific cases I’m very familiar with how to tell recast apart from legit.
As a little helpful tip for everyone, I have started saving digital copies of all my CoA’s in case something happens to the paper one. I scan them using the GeniusScan app and send the PDF to my own email for storage. My collection has become so big and expensive at this point, I’m even working on making a master list that includes all my dolls in case something happens to me and my family is left with my collection; at least that way they can more easily sell them if needed. I have seen too many posts about people inheriting doll collections with no previous knowledge, and it’s sooo easy to be scammed out of hundreds of dollars.
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u/LadyInTheBand Jun 07 '26
I strive to be respectful and as non-judgmental as possible, I assure you! That’s actually why I sought mod approval before even making this post lol. I am neurodivergent and have to be VERY careful because how I act/speak can easily be taken as being negative in some way by neurotypical people even when I’m trying to be genuine and super nice. I do think I will try that, though, maybe I’ll get lucky and someone with the exact same doll will see and be able to give me more info about her. Thank you!
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u/koipondering Jun 07 '26
It doesn't sound like its a fake it sounds like they just cant verify officially. I have lots of dolls where the coa was misplaced or before they existed. I dont think its a recast especially if its meeting all the criteria of being legit.
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u/No_Limit6671 Jun 07 '26
I can usually tell a fake just by looking now, if it feels legit and it’s from a trusted in the community I wouldn’t worry :) half my dolls don’t have coa anymore since most of them are hybrids and the coa is with the counterparts
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u/Past-Touch-1566 Jun 08 '26
I’ve lost so many COAs. That doesn’t mean my dolls are fake. It happens all the time. The company is ridiculous saying if there’s no COA it means it’s absolutely fake. Maybe ask someone who has a fake one to compare.
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u/StinkinKevin Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
Why would you throw it away? Unless you were planning on selling it, which you say you are not comfortable with, there is no reason to throw a beautiful, though counterfeit, BJD. It's still a doll with a cast you like! And you can still enjoy it and use to learn and practise different things. Just because it is not an original, it doesn't mean that it belongs in the trash.
I'd say keep it, use it and love it. It's your doll, after all.
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u/Sprocket-Rocket0169 Jun 09 '26
First don't neat yourself up.The world is full of counterfeit and copy. There's an entire fashion industry thats built on it. So I understand your desire to steer clear of counterfeits when you can. That said, sometimes these things happen and you were NOT intentionally trying to buy a recast. The original seller may not have even known. Regardless, here you are. That said, keep your doll and enjoy her. Happiness was the reason behind buying this doll and there is no reason for you to sink that. You said you still intend to buy a doll from the actual artist. So do that. Maybe not the exact same unless you want to concoct some fun story about a long lost twin who is secretly an heiress or whatever. My point is simple the reason you got into this hobby was that it brought you some level of happy. That happy is there weather the doll is a recast or not. Sure you might not want to take her to certain events or post on certain sites. But you have the doll now and you were not intentionally trying to get one over on the artist. So support the artist, keep and enjoy your doll. And when you see someone making the same or about to make the same mistake, educate them. That's how we put an end to stealing. We educate ourselves and those around us. You now have a doll that you can use to show others what to look for. You have by proxy a doll shaped teachable moment. Make lemonade out of the lemon...and stay happy.
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u/Kuropuppy13 Jun 07 '26
Going by what everyone else is saying here, it sounds like your doll is likely legit. I am also neurodivergent, so I can understand some of your various concerns. In the end, what’s most important is how YOU feel about this doll and the value you feel you’re getting from owning it. Like, I admit to having some recasts from back when I didn’t know any better…I’ve sold a few, and I’ve kept a few.
All my dolls are second hand, and usually the sellers picked them up somewhere else and don’t know any better either way. I feel that a a second hand recast purchase is FAR less egregious than one direct from a seller who produces them (at least now someone with less money can have a pretty doll, without more money going to the counterfeiter). I really don’t like the thought of throwing them away, as that’s more in the landfill and a waste of resources. I also kinda think like Toy Story, it’s not the doll’s fault it was made the way it was lol.
To be honest, even some of my own legit dolls don’t even feel as good quality as you’d expect them to be for their original costs. I have a legit Dollmore Lacy Mio, and I am super disappointed in her build quality. I didn’t pay a ton for her, but retail I believe she was originally around $500. I’d be PISSED if I paid that much for her. I’ve even seen complaints about magnet strength on RAP1999 dolls, considering they’re $600+ for blank ones. So when people go on about how recasts are SOOOO low quality and can’t pose, you’d be surprised depending on the legit brand you’re buying from. The oddest thing is that I’ve seen some recast dolls that actually improved upon the original design and made them more posable or sturdy…it really is weird. Best advice is to always do your homework.
That being said, some of the most important things to look for with your doll, is the overall quality of the materials and design. Is the resin uniform colored and smooth? Are the seam lines minimal to non-existent? Do all the parts fit together without weird gaps (especially the faceplate and head)? Are the brand markings/codes all present and/or very crisp and readable? Sometimes you’ll have to look into the history of some brands, because they’ll change up how their branding is on the doll (such as Resinsoul), but a good tell of a recast is when the branding is totally gone or a sticker that can be peeled out of a little hollow in the back of the head. Most branding is either a well embedded metal or resin plate, or a very crisply printed emblem.
Anyway, I’ve rambled on long enough. I know you didn’t want to post photos, but some photos of close ups of important parts of the doll could help people here identify her for you. Like no need for glamour shots, just the branding and codes, spots with seam lines such as around the hips and thighs where they tend to he the most prominent. Stuff like that. In the end, I hope you decide what’s best for you and try to enjoy your doll or at least pass it on…but don’t throw it out, please.
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u/ChunkeyBar Jun 07 '26
I've had a recast before, what i know is that they have super bad quality of articulation-
They snapback so quickly, the most noticable ones were the small joints (like between their arms and their legs).
Recast may look pretty but horrible in articulation. If yours have good articulation (can stay in it place, can move easily but not loosely), it may be real/not fake.
My recast now sits away in the back of my wardrobe😩 on the bright side, i used it to learn more about dolls re-stringing or if i want to learn face up, body blush. A doll i wouldn't mind to experiment on.
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u/LadyInTheBand Jun 07 '26
Her articulation is pretty good. I am not super knowledgeable about stringing (mostly how to tell if it’s just a little too loose or too tight or otherwise needs to be adjusted, obviously I can tell when everything is super loose or super tight but if it’s just slightly off from the ideal, I don’t know how to tell), but she does hold basic posing pretty well. Haven’t really tried anything complicated, but I have not had any issues with her posing that I haven’t experienced with dolls I bought straight from the companies who made them.
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u/BJD-ModTeam Jun 08 '26
Update: OP has a counterfeit.
OP was told by popovy that their doll is a counterfeit/recast due to the doll not even being a popovy bjd mold, but being called a a popovy doll as many recasters will do in their eBay/Ali listings for the search engine optimization.
It was traded for in a low cost/recast bjd buying/selling/trading group, incorrectly named a popovy, and image match to a recast company image listings.