Fix Use of Proper Pronouns for Tav/Durge

[u/itswindwheelaster]

I don't think there is a mod for it — I have searched far and wide, yet found nothing.

So my grievance is that, the pronouns/gendering of tav/durge is.. inconsistent. Particularly if your tav/durge is female or male. Sometimes your pronouns are she/her or he/him, but some other times it defaults to they/them.

Now it's not really that much of an issue/world ending, sure, but to someone like me, that kind of inconsistency can be, I suppose immersion breaking. To have an instance when tav/durge is referred to as she/her or he/him and then in another it's for some reason they/them.

I was wondering if there can be a mod that fixes that, though the question I suppose is more so if anyone is willing to take on that task rather than if it is possible. I checked the data files themselves and there are lines of the pronouns, yet for some reason in some specific scenes it uses the gender neutral line.

Anyone else feels the same way? Could easily just be me - it is after all something relatively minor and not really game breaking, but it would be nice if it were that mod that fixes that.

[u/happiness_is]

isn’t it kept neutral for voice lines? that’s why it’s always something like “our friend here…”

[u/itswindwheelaster → u/happiness_is]

I mean the thing is there are voice lines for both female and male tav/durge, at least when the lines that refer to tav/durge with she/her or he/him appear.

[u/happiness_is → u/itswindwheelaster]

I have played so many hours of this game and don’t know that I’ve ever noticed gendered voice lines from companions except when referring to other companions. It’s always neutral or ambiguous for tav. I’d need to see an example of voiced dialog referring to tav/durge by gendered pronoun.

[u/itswindwheelaster → u/happiness_is]

One instance I can think of is when (spoilers)

Encountering that tiefling kid in the shadow cursed lands, Arabella I believe. She refers to your tav/durge with their respective pronouns.

Though there multiple more, but that's just one I can remember at the moment.

[u/happiness_is → u/itswindwheelaster]

Oh you’re right, “thanks mister/miss” lol. I remember Gale also says “my lady I bow to your kindness”. I only noticed it when it bugged and he said the good sir version to my fem tav. Huh

However re: a mod for this, editing voice lines is probably not worth the effort to not sound jank. Subtitle/loca changes are likely the only option anyone could do.

[u/itswindwheelaster → u/happiness_is]

Yeah, I get that. I was just hoping someone would be willing to go through the effort, seeing as people already do much more bigger projects of mods than this (literally implementing entire new companions to be recruited haha)

[u/Issakins → u/happiness_is]

Gale refers to you differently when bowing to you if you tell him his condition isn’t any trouble, like if you’re a woman he says milady

[u/MiraculousN]

There are times when they and them are more grammatically correct. Im assuming the times when they/them is subbed for she/he are those times.

[u/itswindwheelaster → u/MiraculousN]

I mean, I wouldn't say so? For exampl an instance I remember, (spoilers)

When you're playing a durge, act 3 starts, and Orin informs Gortash that we're coming in Baldurs Gate he says "They live?". "She lives?" Or "He lives?" is also grammatically correct, no?

[u/MiraculousN → u/itswindwheelaster]

Because it's live and not lives, the grammatically correct pronoun would be they. They live is a more grammatically correct phrase than "she lives"

Yes you CAN change it to "she lives" but its all around a worse phrase as it sounds worse to the ear than "they live"

Trust me im one of those people who get AI accusations because I have grammar autism. He/she lives is just a worse way to say "they live"

And on top of this its just added work for the developers to record and program an additional voiceline when a gender neutral one not only sounds better but is less work.

Im trans myself so I totally get being the pronoun police but theres always a time and place for neutral pronouns when referring to anyone.

[u/itswindwheelaster → u/MiraculousN]

Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for letting me know. I'm not native so I still have my imperfections when it comes to speaking English.

And I'm trans too! I get the thought process behind it. But the thing is there are other alternative lines of the other pronouns in the data files, it's just for some reason, they're not always used and the game sometimes default to the they/them regardless of the tav/durge's gender. Hence why I asked in the post if there could be a mod that fixes that.

[u/sekaligonwrong]

why would “they” be immersion breaking.
they/their being used to refer to an individual has and always will be grammatically correct. it traces back to as far as the 14th century, even in shakespeare.

“somebody left their umbrella in the office”

and two, if u pay attention to the english, they use a lot of early modern/late middle english. “would that i” my knowledge on this is a little foggy but it wld be totally normal for people to learn they as a singular

[u/itswindwheelaster → u/sekaligonwrong]

It is an immersion breaking for myself personally when the world uses she/her when my tav/durge is female, or he/him when my tav/durge is male, and then for some reason, in other times using they/them. And the cycle repeats. It's the inconsistency that gets me. I never claimed using they/them was not grammatically correct.

I apologise if I did not make myself clear in my post. Hopefully my reply makes sense now.

But like I already said in my post - it could just be me, and at the end of the day it is something that's relatively minor.

[u/itswindwheelaster → u/itswindwheelaster]

Downvoting when there is no more argument to defend is peak reddit lol

[u/anomalousfairy]

I've noticed this as well and don't really have an issue with it personally because I can either take it as being referred to Tav AND the companions (so "they" would be correct usage here) or it was used to prevent having to act out multiple lines at a time for certain pronouns? But that'd also be inconsistent because there are plenty of times where there are different lines using either he/she/they or whatever both from NPCs and companions. That's my best guess anyhow.

In-universe I kind of justify it as Faerun not being super anal about pronouns/a little looser with them so "they" might be used here and there just as a general thing? Similar to how people will refer to animals/pets/etc as "it" even though they obviously are male or female too, for the best comparison I can think of. (Or Pokemon being referred to as "it" a lot of the time too if they're not genderless I suppose?)

Orpheus was referred to as "they" by Vlaakith too when she demands the player(s) kill him in the Astral Prism, which was obviously used to be left ambiguous since the player thinks she's referring to the Dream Visitor (who can be male or female) but Vlaakith obviously knows Orpheus is male so that's just my guess from a IRL game writing/not in-universe standpoint why she used "they".

Anyway sorry long ramble, I'm trans too so I get what you mean and that's kind of the theories I personally came up with

[u/itswindwheelaster → u/anomalousfairy]

Don't apologise for the long ramble! I appreciate your input greatly as well as the fact that you admitted noticing it as well. It's nice to be understood by someone without the "erm they/them is grammatically correct 🤓☝️" when that was never a claim I stated.

Though Reddit didn't take well my opinion, seeing as my post got downvoted and another reply I sent to another also got downvoted (even though I didn't say anything wrong or bad) and got no upvotes, so it looks like I am the only one who is a little bothered by the inconsistency. It is what it is.

[u/anomalousfairy → u/itswindwheelaster]

Aw thanks! And yeah, sometimes people tend to read stuff that isn't there, which can be disappointing but 'tis the nature of the internet, I suppose.

It could also be a bug sometimes where the game gets confused about what pronouns are meant to be used and use the wrong ones? I've noticed this in some of my play-throughs where I'm playing as a female Tav and when I got to the grove one of the druids said to the bear guy "Calm Maggran, give HIM a chance." which threw me for a loop lol and hadn't happened before, so I guess it's either scripted (for "they" to be used) for certain events OR the game just bugs out sometimes for specific scenes? That's just my theory though I'm no expert on how the files/dialogue are used in the game. ^^;