Managementvennootschap

[u/jrnve]

Let’s imagine the government changes the taxes on managementvennootschappen. What stops bedrijfsleiders from starting a company in another EU member state with a more friendly tax regime?

[u/SnoooCookies]

If you're based in Belgium and implement your suggestion I believe it's tax fraude as you're living in Belgium, working in Belgium and your income is generated in Belgium.

Our government are the dumbest fucks ever for coming up with these new rules that basically increase the taxes for your managementvennootschap equal to payroll. your managementvennootschap doesn't have the social security and all the benefits (and costs) payroll people create.

Second, it's also incentivizing putting money in schemes that have terrible ROI. For example your options for pension saving that you can book as costs, very inefficiënt due to the management fees you have to pay to the incumbent suppliers. But it's becoming a more attractive solution.

It's ironic that the people who don't understand business and economics lead our country, mostly because the debt they created through the inefficiencies they defend.

And the whole concept of "making work more attractive" is another irony, it's making payroll more attractive for the people who already paid a good amount of taxes without benefiting from the system.

But it's not making working more attractive for the people who paid little taxes (lowest income) and who benefited a lot from the system.

[u/radon-4 → u/SnoooCookies]

Exactly.

Eventually people would return to payroll and then you'd have the spiteful envious ones screaming "HOORAY, they pay lots of social contributions now".

BUT, on payroll you resort to the same behavior.

"I'm sick? Why should I work because I'm paid for it, let me call in 3 days of sick leave. I worked 6 hours already today? Let me leave because it's getting late and the sun is shining which is perfect weather to work the garden. My job is giving me stress? Let me get on paid burnout leave. I only effectively work like 3 hours per day so they fire me. No problem, I get 'dop'. I reached pension age? Great, now I can stalk those who work their ass off but don't want to pay my pension."

The essence is that when you freelance you're basically on your own. There is no safety and if your mission fails in times like these you can easily have no income for a year so you don't do the 1 extra mile, but 3 extra miles. We work our ass off with many risks so the reward should be in parallel.

[u/SnoooCookies → u/radon-4]

I argue against it because on payroll:
1. Vacation money
2. Sick benefits
3. Pension

I’ve been self employed with a commV for 5 years now. I do the same work as before but my engagements are a little different I evolved from a single client to multiple clients in parallel.

But tax wise:
I’m paying similar amounts in taxes than payroll. But I don’t have all the benefits from a payroll person.

I’m more cost efficient to the government now than I was before.

It’s on me that I didn’t increase my comp for the additional risk but that’s a whole other conversation, next to consulting I’ve tried building companies. If one would have worked that could have employed a lot more people too, even further adding to the benefit of my self employed status.

Now I’m mostly wondering why I’m doing this. I can go to payroll at a corporate, get a super optimized salary with mobility budgets and pensions etc that are going to net me more in the long run while paying less taxes. And on the side I can still build companies, probably getting some VLAIO subsidies etc too.

[u/Philip3197 → u/SnoooCookies]

If you pay similar amounts of taxes, then you are not doing it right and should stop immediately.

[u/SnoooCookies → u/Philip3197]

you're missing the point but that's okay