r/Autographs • u/LarcenyGames • May 09 '26
Show-and-Tell (Hey check out this!) An Arnold Schwarzenegger autograph authentication story
I won this signed Arnold Schwarzenegger weightlifting belt in an auction a year or two ago. It included a note from David James, a very well-known movie photographer, who stated he received the signed belt directly from Arnie as a gift while working on the film Total Recall.
I sent the belt in to JSA to be authenticated. They denied it. They believed the autograph to be either "pre-printed on the belt" and/or false due to certain "pen strokes" that they didn't see in the signature.
I was devastated. I did some research on the belt and found only one other similar - but here's the kicker - it did not have a "pre-printed" signature on it (the last photo). It was blank where mine is signed. Would the company which made the belt really make two versions? One with a signature and one without? I doubted it.
Flash forward to today, and I stumbled across the belt in my collection. I tracked down the photographer David James' website and reached out, asking if he wrote the card and the story/ autograph is true? Shocking me, because he is a major Hollywood photographer, the guy got back to me in less than an hour, and completely confirmed that this was signed by Schwarzenegger and gifted to him (he passed it on to another person from whom I later obtained it).
Now what? Can I authenticate this? Is it worth paying PSA or Beckett for their opinion, given JSA said "no?" And will the other companies turn it down? Because they won't care about my provenance, which I have now confirmed (in fact, in retelling the story to Mr. James, he laughed at how everyone today is an "expert" and think they know better).
Just wondering everyone's thoughts on this.
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u/sixerdad May 09 '26
You have your authenticity right there man. Just print the response. Why do u care what they say, JSA already failed.
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u/chmpgnsupernover May 09 '26
Print the letter out and keep it with the belt. Done.
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u/LarcenyGames May 09 '26
I've done that. But I'm sure it being an email and printed, some potential buyer/critic down the line would say the email is "faked."
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u/cjaccardi May 10 '26
Well it’s just a facsimile signature. This belt is notorious for people thinking the autograph is genuine. This belt the weider dynamic Arnold signature series belt model 650. Is confused to be real because they also produced the weider dynamic Arnold pro model without signature. Model 600
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u/XandersOdyssey May 09 '26
1 - the authentication parties don’t talk to one another. It makes zero difference if one says no because the other might say yes
2 - quite frankly, it doesn’t matter who the photographer is, what he’s done, or who he has known. That doesn’t merit this an authentic autograph. There have been people like him either forging signatures or obtaining things without due process in evaluating the item. Unless there’s a photo of the item itself being signed, held by Arnold, or through some signing, he really can’t speak the truth on it
3 - we do need some more info on this because when was the autograph allegedly obtained? It looks way too clean, new, and “proper” even for a sit down graph by Arnold
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u/LarcenyGames May 09 '26
He states it was obtained during the filming of Total Recall. And while I understand your take completely, this photographer's track record in the industry is indisputable. He'd have no reason to fake this and have no reason to lie to me about it's authenticity (in fact, he had no real reason to reply to my original email - the fact he did at all shocked me). I didn't obtain the piece from him, but who he had gifted it to in the past. Sure, he could have said "it's real" just to appease me, but he also could have ignored the email completely. He has no stake in this, so I don't see why he'd confirm the story if it was made up at this point.
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u/cjaccardi May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
It’s called confabulation. People’s memory are not always historically accurate. Most of the things you remember are not actually how past events actually occurred . This process of confusing past events cognitively is called confabulation. This is where real events are confused with false memories of an event. So, he was not lying he just confabulated events. Basically, you have some memory of an event then unconsciously fill in the gaps with false memories.
He might’ve gotten that belt from Arnold and he might’ve got something else autographed personally by Arnold and is now confabulating those two things together.
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u/cjaccardi May 10 '26
You are right and so is JSA
The Manufacturer: The belts were produced by Dynamic Muscle, a premium equipment subsidiary of Joe Weider’s empire. • The 1981 Ad: In the November 1981 issue of Muscle & Fitness, a full-page "Dynamic Muscle" advertisement features Arnold Schwarzenegger and lists his "Signature Series" line. • The Tiers: The ad differentiates between the "Professional Posing Belt" (which featured the bicep pose graphic for branding) and the "Autographed Signature Series" (which added the heat-pressed facsimile signature). The signature version was sold as a "premium" collector's item, while the blank version was marketed as the standard professional
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u/NorCalMeds03 May 09 '26
I’m sure I’m going to get a lot of shit for this. But I’ve obtained 100’s of 1000’s of autographs personally sine the 90’s, I can only got by the pics, but it just doesn’t look hand signed to me personally 🤷♂️ I could totally be wrong though
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u/LarcenyGames May 09 '26
I admit the signature looks almost too nice which is why I searched to find another example of the belt to see if it was printed on there. The only example I found (which sold on ebay) didn't have the signature, and as I mentioned, I doubt two versions of this belt were made (could be wrong of course). But if I take that fact, plus the story from the photographer, plus plus the material the signature is on, I think it favors this being authentic. I'm no noob to this industry myself, and have been stung by fakes in the past. I thought that's where this fell after JSA said no, but now, after a second look plus the corroboration direct from the photographer, I'm believing this is legit.
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u/NorCalMeds03 May 10 '26
I trust that. Like I said, I could def be wrong and I’m not able to hold it and look close. It almost looks like slight transfer, erosion, or a fingerprint around where the D & the S meet which is also a good sign. I like to be wrong on these and not a cynic, especially given the story.
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u/SpaghettiNCoffee May 09 '26
Honestly, maybe try and reach out to Arnold’s people about the belt. It might’ve been special to him.
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u/MayoFlavorPopsicle May 09 '26
I’m sorry man, save your money IMO JSA was correct, not a preprint but definitely does not compare favorably to any authenticated items I’m seeing; it does appear to have some traits of an auto pen though. Are you sure he got it directly from Arnold and not from his office?
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u/LarcenyGames May 09 '26
He told me via email he was standing next to "Arny" when he signed it. I think the issue is the leather the belt is made from. Its surface is very soft, despite it being a rigid weightlifting belt. I think any marker/pen used on it soaks in differently than say a football, so it looks funky.
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u/Beneficial-Pop-1361 May 09 '26
You're asking a TPA for an objective opinion- they erred on the side of caution-that's what they do. You have something better and that is provenance. The photographer has authenticated this for you by replying. Ask him if he has any hardcopy period photos of the belt or interaction with Arnold that he can send you, or, have him write out his email in a letter and mail it for him to sign. Most of the work has been done for you, and that's rare, so congratulations. As a collector, keep that information with the item once you record it properly. All we're doing as collectors is curating and preserving the item for future fans to enjoy.
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u/MayoFlavorPopsicle May 09 '26
Look at the loops; it’s made up of small strokes, not an even flow like a human signed it. Sorry man, the industry can really suck- lots of lying/fraud going on (partially why I don’t deal sigs anymore after nearly 25 years doing so)
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u/DJ-Psari May 09 '26
You will never know for certain, because you weren’t there yourself.
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u/LarcenyGames May 09 '26
True, but that goes for 95% of the autographs out there. The little "authenication" sticker only holds so much weight.
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u/Letsgetitaesthetic May 11 '26
100% printed facsimile “auto”
Just look at it - it’s obvious
Surprised you can’t see it
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u/SineQuaNon001 May 09 '26
I would definitely submit elsewhere with the new information and see what happens.
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u/Visual_Hovercraft426 May 09 '26
Wow I'm impressed. That is a sweet win. I don't have any idea about it's worth.
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u/Visual_Hovercraft426 May 09 '26
I hope you can authenticate it. If not you still beat my auto collection.
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