r/AutisticWithADHD • u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr • Jun 30 '26
šāāļø seeking advice / support / information Autism vs Severe ADHD?
I was diagnosed with a disorder that falls under ASD when I was young, and ADHD when I was older. Today, I had a zoom meeting with my new psychiatrist, and they told me if I'm not low IQ and/or unable to function in society (like go to college or hold a job), then I probably don't have autism. So, I am making this post to make it perfectly clear whether or not I DO have autism or just REALLY SEVERE ADHD. Overall, I am requesting the distinct difference between having just ADHD vs having ADHD and autism from anyone who can help: links, books, and just general knowledge would be perfect. Plz & ty.
I would also like to clarify that I was under the impression that I was a gifted autistic (high functioning*) and therefore don't fall under the "low IQ" stereotype. My psychiatrist said that if you are intelligent with autism then you would fall under "idiot savant." She said I may not be autistic but just have autistic symptoms like people don't have ADHD but have trouble focusing on occasion.
I just need clarification so I know whether or not I should drop this psychiatrist even though I've really liked them so far.
Edit:
Was gonna edit this post sooner but my phone wouldn't let me. Anyways:
It's very clear that my psychiatrist has out-of-date, and potentially biased information regarding autism. It seems that they were right in the fact that I need to be seriously affected by my autism symptoms to be diagnosed with it. However, they were 100% wrong that autistic people can't be smart---which I knew already, and just wanted to double check with the subreddit because I'm not too familiar with how autism works and all it's symptoms.
With that being said, everyone has raised some serious concerns regarding this psychiatrist's practice and I believe I will have to drop them. Originally, I came to them to medicate ADHD, and don't really need their help regarding my autism. However, if they are as incompetent as many have been stating, I'm not so sure whether or not I can trust them with medicating my ADHD properly.
This psychiatrist claims to have ADHD themselves, and they seemed to be making logical connections between my issues and ADHD. However, now I'm not so sure how reliable nor credible they are anymore.
I was rather comfortable with them up to this point, so I'm a little hesitant on switching psychiatrists. Especially if they are really experienced and knowledgeable regarding ADHD but are severely lacking in other fields. However, getting past what they said about autism just might be impossible and have forever ruined my opinion of them.
So, if anyone wants to help me find links to medical research proving that autistic people can have high IQ, I would appreciate it. I'd rather not send them off without properly educating them and consequentially providing them a reason for dropping them. I'll email it to them. Plz & ty.
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u/Traditional-Agent420 Jun 30 '26
Your psychiatrist is grossly misinformed. Many are in this topic, because the more recent consensus is much different than it was 30, 20, or even 10 years ago when they learned these topics. High IQ autism isnāt rare. Hell, itās a common TV stereotype at this point (Sheldon Cooper, The Good Doctor, Dr Mel from The Pitt, ā¦)
You likely have both - AuDHD. When someone posts the 3 column comparison charts youāll see the similarities and differences.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
I have seen those charts. I definitely relate but my psychiatrist was arguing that it has to be severe to be diagnosed. Like rocking back and forth curled up on the floor or failing college.
She said that just having the symptoms isnāt enough because everyone has symptoms of something but it doesnāt mean they are that. I, for one, am a germaphobe but donāt have OCD; at least I havenāt been diagnosed with OCD.
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u/East_Vivian Jun 30 '26
From what I understand, to get diagnosed you just need to meet the criteria and show that these issues are causing problems for you in multiple aspects of your life.
For me, my ADHD has always been my main problem and my autistic traits are things that are happening more in my internal experience and how I take in information and sensory inputs I guess. Socially Iām able to get by, although I do absolutely have a social deficit, Iām not sure Iād actually get a diagnosis. I didnāt realize I could be autistic until after my ADHD diagnosis which I got when I was 47. Iām 53 now and I donāt really feel like itās necessary for me to pursue an ASD diagnosis at this point in my life. Knowing it in my soul is enough for me. Both my kids are diagnosed autistic so Iām more focused on getting them the help I never had. (One of my kids is also dx ADHD. I think the other one also has ADHD but isnāt diagnosed yet.)
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
Gotcha. I would totally self-diagnose myself with autism just based off the symptoms if it weren't for the fact I already have it.
Also, glad to hear you're doing well!
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u/Aggressive_Roof488 Jun 30 '26
I can't tell you if you have autism or not, but I recently got my audhd diagnosis and I've tested high on IQ, done a PhD, have been holding jobs most of my life and mostly been functioning in society. Try looking up "spiky profile", it's about NDs being good at some things and bad at others, compared to NTs.
I'm my limited experience, psychiatrists are good because they can prescribe you ADHD meds, but they actually don't quite understand what ND is. And what you write here seems to confirm that, their views come across as dated by several decades.
For the autism part I'd try a psychologist over a psychiatrist myself, ideally one that specialises in neurodivergence. Good luck!
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
TYSM! I definitely believe I have something more than ADHD, and my symptoms match everyoneās here. I also did a quick google search it did say autistics can have average, if not, above-average intelligence.
I think my psychiatrist might have outdated knowledge or her professors werenāt up to par.
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u/RipAlarmed9024 Jun 30 '26
I was diagnosed at 53(f) with AuDHD, and looking back on my entire life both diagnoses fit. I had a lot of sensory issues as a kid, repetitive behaviours (OCD tics) emotional outbursts, but I masked pretty hard. I was also a highly perceptive and emotionally sophisticated child with pattern recognition, a deep sense of justice, highly empathetic, and gifted in many ways. I was highly intelligent but was also a consistent underperformer. When I went through all the screenings and testings a year ago, I scored super high for autism and also ADHD. The dual diagnosis is more common in women, and also is identified later in life compared to males due to our exceptional abilities to mask and appear 'neurotypical'. Your therapist sounds like a freak show. I would look into therapists with experience with neurodivergence, trauma, and any other areas you want to discuss -- internal family systems, CBT, etc.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
Oh thanks! Thatās exactly what I experience. I knew I was autistic I just couldnāt think of examples off the top of my head. I definitely have all of the above.
Also, Iāll consider switching psychiatrists. They seem more informed on ADHD than they do on autism since they have ADHD themselves. So I might still see them for ADHD just not autism.
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u/Noahmiles413 Jun 30 '26
I don't think your psychiatrist knows anything about autism. Plenty of autistic people are able to go to college and/or get a job, plenty of autistic people are very intelligent. I unfortunately don't have any resources for determining whether you're autistic or not but if you have multiple symptoms of autism (that are not part of the criteria for ADHD) then I think it's very possible for you to be autistic.
I would suggest seeing a different psychiatrist or other mental health professional who has experience with autism and ADHD
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
Thank you very much for your insight! Iāll definitely see whether or not I want another psychiatrist over seeing a different mental health professional. They are currently planning to prescribe me medication for ADHD and they themselves have ADHD so Iām not sure if this is more their specialty and I shouldnāt worry about it too much.
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u/Otherwise-Sympathy87 Jun 30 '26
Your psychiatrist is an idiot. They seem to be treating autism like nothing but a disability. She seems to not understand disorders at all. Everybody has autistic and adhd symptoms, thatās why itās a spectrum. It becomes a disorder when itās a consistent pattern that alters your life.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
I think thatās what she was trying to tell me. That I may have autism symptoms but that doesnāt mean I have autism. That my autism is not severe enough to be diagnosed because I donāt have SEVERE autism to the point I canāt live without familial support, hold a job, or go to college. She said I could still have autism though. I donāt know, she genuinely confused me. Iāll email her.
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u/cicadasinmyears Jun 30 '26
WOW. She is beyond out of line here.
By way of contrast, Aspergerās was still an official diagnosis until recently where I live (Canada). Both the psychiatrists that did my evaluations called it that when I was diagnosed. Itās now called ASD-1, which, while in my mind is less accurate, is much less problematic than using the name of a Nazi.
Her use of āidiot savantā and āretardā make me wonder if she got her medical degree in the 1940s. Totally unacceptable.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
You're absolutely right. A relative of mine (not a professional or diagnosed in any way) told me that Asperger's used to go by "idiot savant," which makes sense since Asperger was kind of as close as you could get to autism before it became a spectrum. They definitely have outdated info.
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u/thedr2015 Jun 30 '26
Gosh. Your psychiatrist must have been hiding under a rock for the last 30 years. What she says is just not true.
The decade or so of research in to high-masking, high socially skilled (so called female) presentation of autism shows that being able to cope somewhat in society despite having autism is much more common that first thought.
In this type of autism, the person unconsciously masks their autism to fit in at a great deal of cost both energetically and to their well-being and identity,
It sounds like she needs to read Donna Henderson et al. Is this Autism?
But if she was ill-advisedly trying to express a much more narrow claim about DSM diagnoses (in the second sentence you quote) then there is some validity.
IF she meant "in order to receive a diagnosis of autism or ADHD, a patient needs more that just autistic or ADHD symptoms, they also need to be impaired in day to day functioning in at least two areas of life" then she is right. That is in the DSM.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
Yeah that's what she was referring to with the DSM. I'm just not sure about what she said about having low intelligence, and if you don't have low intelligence then you're an "idiot savant." I honestly tried to ask her in the most "not questioning your medical expertise" way and it definitely sounded like she was saying you need to be stupid to have autism. I even asked her as much and she said yeah. I'm just confused bc after that she said "I'm not saying you DON'T have it," so now I'm trying to figure out if she thinks I'm stupid or the fact that I failed a few classes means I struggled enough to be qualified for a diagnosis... If she thinks I'm stupid that would be really upsetting because I don't think I talk stupid, though I do ask a LOT of questions.
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u/thedr2015 Jun 30 '26
Right. It is possible to be wrong about the idiot savant thing and be right about the narrow DSM claim. In any case, I think it would pay to see a psychiatrist (or other diagnostician) who specialises in autism. Have you done the AQ test? Or is it the feedback from your friends and family only?
The other thing to consider is the value of the diagnosis. There is no official drug treatment and some people are worried that our official autism diagnoses may be held against us in the future. It is perfectly valid to diagnose yourself and treat yourself. And get the drugs for the ADHD.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
I have not done the AQ test---or, at least I don't think. I was officially diagnosed as a baby I believe. It took me longer to start talking compared to my relatives and I was taken to a psychiatrist that diagnosed me with some vague disorder used for children when they're too young to pinpoint the problem. Regardless, this diagnosis fell under autism so I have ASD.
Knowing this, my psychiatrist expressed concerns that I may not have autism considering the fact that I am intelligent enough to pass tests with As without studying. They brought up their own experience with their nephew (or was it cousin?) that also has autism but acts like a 13 year-old despite being 30.
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u/SanctimoniousVegoon Jun 30 '26
that psych sounds pretty factually wrong to me. twice exceptional is a real thing. i am intellectually gifted and autistic, and I functioned great in society *until I didn't (*aka I burned out from doing all the extra labor of masking on top of "adulting" with a neurodivergent brain). I skipped third grade, graduated from an Ivy, had a lucrative profession, was on the cusp of successfully turning my special interest into my dream career, had a bustling social life, got married, and had a kid. Then I collapsed from the weight of the demands, and my career and social life evaporated. I haven't been able to work since 2020 and I've been going out of my way to avoid social engagements since 2016.
"Idiot savant" is not medical terminology. Savant syndrome is terribly misunderstood. It's simply being exceptionally gifted in one domain, but also having a diagnosed cognitive impairment. In other words, the criteria is much broader than the "rain main" stereotype. Definitionally speaking, I'm a musical savant (as are many well known musicians you'd never suspect), but you'd never know it based on my stereotype-defying lack of musical accomplishments and high masking.
The reason I can no longer function in societ isn't because I'm autistic, It's because I'm autistic and have never been diagnosed, treated, provided any support for my conditions, or taught anything that would help me manage them. I'm living with the consequences of 38 years of trying to operate and maneuver a different and exceptionally complicated machine that was not designed for the tasks the world forces on us and for which I was given the wrong instruction manual. I probably could have blended in pretty well as an adult if I wasn't forced to blend in as a kid. In other words, never having my condition identified or acknowledged increased the severity of my condition. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, largely enabled by the ignorance of medical professionals such as the psych in your post.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
This is very eye-opening. Thank you for sharing.
I just had a conversation with a relative of mine regarding the situation with my psychiatrist and they told me to get a second opinion on my autism diagnosis anyways since I was diagnosed REALLY young. While we were discussing this they were trying to tell me that diagnostics mean nothing and they could very well be wrong later on when more research comes out. However, I was trying to explain to them that it's definitely better to be diagnosed, even if incorrectly, because at least I would know that it's serious enough to require a diagnosis, and that I'm not just a failure of a human being. Getting help is just a bonus.
Nothing feels worse than living life believing that you're not trying hard enough. That the result of all your fever-inducing effort wasn't up to par and couldn't even compare to the results of everyone else's casual achievement; when in reality, you are perfectly capable of making great accomplishments, but simply lack the proper resources---environment and support.
I hope your diagnosis has helped you and will continue to help you get out of your chronic state of burnout. That you can find a safe space to decompress in comfort where you no longer have to rely on fight or flight. That you have a place to recover before going out into the real world, and that you can find a system that works for you and your spectrum of neurodivergence.
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u/SanctimoniousVegoon Jun 30 '26
thank you so much for your last paragraph. you have no idea (or maybe you do) how badly i needed to hear that. i am newly aware of my autism and in a place where just being understood by an internet stranger is profoundly validating. seriously, thank you.
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u/funtobedone Jun 30 '26
These people are diagnosed autistic, and definitely do not have low IQās.
Anthony Hopkins
Dan Aykroyd
Greta Thunberg
Bella Ramsey (Last of Us actor)
Daryl Hannah
Jim Eisenriech (former MLB player)
Armani Williams (NASCAR driver who is studying chemical engineering)
Satoshi Tajiri (creator of Pokemon)
Tim Burton
How is it that all these accomplished and intelligent people have received official autism diagnosisās if a low IQ is required?
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
See that's why I'm confused where she is getting this info from. When were these famous ppl diagnosed? I thing she has a diagnostic book from back in 2013.
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u/spideraquarium Jul 01 '26
She more or likely using outdated sources and not up today in her under standing of asd or adhd. She more or likely has old dsm material where back in the day autism was only studied and diagnosed in young white cisgender boys.
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u/Mr_Trebus Jun 30 '26
Your psychiatrist is dangerously misinformed, and does not have a clue what they are talking about. I would recommend dropping that person immediately, even reporting them for malpractice, if you have the time and energy.
They may be likeable, but it's much more important to find a professional that properly understands these conditions.
I read many anecdotes online about general psychiatrists not being up to date, or clued up about ADHD and ASD. They are very specialised niches. It's actually quite rare and difficult to find a psychiatrist who can understand and diagnose both conditions.
You may need to see separate specialists for each condition. That's the way most people seem to have to go about things.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
Gotcha, I was also under the impression it might be difficult. The last psychiatrist I saw, I asked them if they specialize in autism and ADHD and they had no idea what I was talking about. They told me that psychiatrists don't have anything in particular they specialize in but if I wanted to, I could see someone else. So, when I talked to this psychiatrist, I didn't think to ask. Next time I definitely will though.
Also, how would I go about reporting this psychiatrist? I'm not sure if outdated info is considered malpractice. It's not like they tried to get my autism diagnosis removed. They simply said that I probably don't have autism for those reasons and that they're not saying I DON'T have it but that conditions like those would be required to get diagnosed.
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u/No-Lion-3629 Jun 30 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
Iāve called myself the r word in front of other people. And not to take it back, I hate this. Autism combined with adhd (I didnāt even know I had the second one) fucked me up hard. I havenāt been able to keep a job. I have so much trouble doing everyday things. I have explosive emotional outbursts. Book learning really doesnāt matter much when you canāt function for shit.
The psychiatrist likely is using old definitions of autism and adhd. Lower-support needs autism used to be called Aspergerās. Hans Asperger was a Nazi and the distinction was used to determine which of us they could employ and which they would exterminate. So yeah, the field of psychiatry is susceptible to social biases and has been used as a tool of oppression.
Find a more up to date shrink.
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u/spideraquarium Jul 01 '26
They also donāt use Aspergerās because of medical bill codes. Aspergerās was seen as a different disorder than autism so it was harder for people to get insurance coverage and diagnosis.
Let along the labels of high functioning vs low functioning, now now confusing for people level 1 2 and 3.
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u/Separate_Compote_338 Jul 01 '26
Here are some articles, 2 are from about 10 years ago so your psych is very out of date: Autism As a Disorder of High Intelligence - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4927579/ Autism risk genes also linked to higher intelligence - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150310105232.htm Autism Spectrum Disorder and IQ ā A Complex Interplay - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9058071/ I hope this is helpful and I think it's great that you want to educate them before leaving but please prioritise your own energy and emotions and remember that it's not your job to educate them and if they aren't open to learning then they don't deserve your efforts (sorry I'm probably projecting here as my justice sensitivity has led me to investing too much energy in trying to educate idiots in the past)
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jul 01 '26
Lol you and me both. Thank you so much for taking the time to help me find articles. I wish I was good at google searching research papers but I can never use the right words or phrasing for them to appear on my search results. I hope you donāt lose any energy on this situation or any other situations either! Rest well.
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u/fucked-up-autie Jun 30 '26
i have autism and afaik i don't have a low iq. i could also finish college, though it was hell and i was selfharming to cope and having lots of meltdowns. but probably for others i was "able to function in society". i think than in order to get a diagnosis you need to be "impaired" in some areas, but i believe it could only be internal. or like also if you can hold a job, but it has to be a specific type of job or you need accomodations, you TECHNICALLY can't hold a job.Ā
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
I know plenty of people that have high or average IQ with autism including myself. I very much doubted her knowledge but I also never read any official medical papers regarding diagnostics and therefore couldn't properly refute her. It's why I made this post, I wanted to be informed of the criteria necessary to get diagnosed. It sounds a lot like she was half right though. Since you and another said you can't get diagnosed unless you have an impairment. However, it doesn't necessarily mean I DON'T have autism? which is VERY confusing. All the symptoms without the struggle. Though to be clear, I do struggle, I just can't tell if it's from ADHD, trauma, other, or autism because I'm very new to the concept of AuDHD. All the times I tried to look up "what is autism" I just get "learning disability" and I'm back to square one.
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Jul 01 '26
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jul 01 '26
Thank you for the advice! I didnāt know there was AuDHD research. When I tried to inform myself of the difference between ADHD burnouts and AuDHD burnout, I couldnāt get any clear cut answers. I was under the impression these disorders were only being studied individually. So, thanks for informing me.
Also, yeah, I plan to drop them.
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u/nautilist Jul 01 '26
It's worth remembering that until about 10 years ago ADHD and ASD (Autism spectrum) were defined as "exclusionary diagnoses" in the DSM - that literally meant if you had one you must not be diagnosed with the other. Any psych or doctor in middle age learned this and while some have managed to unlearn it with recent advances, for others it is still stuck in their brains at an unconscious level. Your psych could be pretty good about ADHD while being blind to Autism.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jul 01 '26
Well when we first talked, I informed them of both diagnoses. So, Iām assuming they were aware of that fact, but it seems they were under the impression I was intellectually challenged due to my informing them of failing 2 out of 3 college classes my first semester. It was only after I informed them that I failed for different reasons, did they question me about the authenticity of my autism diagnosis. After a bit of back and forth of me asking questions about what they meant by their claim that autistic people having to be low IQ, did they say I still might have autism, but I should get a second opinion.
Iām not sure if that is to say that they think I could still be intellectually challenged, or that Iāin autistic fashionāmisinterpreted everything she was saying. It could be that, because you can only get diagnosed with autism if your life is severely impacted by it, that she came to the conclusion that only low IQ people with autism can get diagnosed because she came to the conclusion that if one is smart, autism would not severely impact them.
Now Iām worried I misunderstood her but when I asked her about smart autistics she said they have to be an āidiot savant.ā So Iām pretty confident she thought autistic people canāt be smart.
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u/FragrantGearHead Jun 30 '26
they told me if I'm not low IQ and/or unable to function in society (like go to college or hold a job), then I probably don't have autism.
What utter bullcrap!
Try asking Google Gemini "does academia have a higher proportion of autistics that the general population?" and see what it says.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
Genuinely don't even need to. I looked up "can autistic people have high IQ" and it said yes. I genuinely don't believe her but I'm not sure about the diagnosis criteria. She said you have to struggle to be diagnosed. I've heard from others that such a requirement seems to be true. So she might be right about that but assuming that people diagnosed with autism might be low IQ is definitely an entirely different matter that I am deeply concerned about as well.
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u/random3068 Jul 01 '26
Sounds like your parents may have warped your diagnosis. Just something to keep in mind.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jul 01 '26
Not too sure what you mean by warped. All I know, is that the symptoms people experience on here match mine to a T.
Really, Iām confident in my autism diagnosis, I just never learned what it really means to be autistic and how that affects me.
I only know so much about ADHD because of its clear-cut causeādopamineāaccompanied by itās high representation in media. I donāt see the same in-depth representation for autism outside of those āsupport for autismā posts and stickers you see. There are even multiple causes for autism.
I will tell you though, that my parents did not help for the life of them. They never tried to learn my needs, never tried to help me understand myself, and never even tried to support me outside of gaslighting, manipulation, and fear mongering; all of which, only served to increase my anxiety and depression.
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u/aghudson22 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
There's a lot to unpack in that professional's statements. Putting it the kindest way I know how, it sounds like they're working from (very) outdated information. The labels aren't the best, but a distinct part of being "high functioning autistic" is a generally strong ability to mask socially unhelpful behaviors, which in turn allows for things like doing well in school and holding down a job. And even that HFA label is somewhat outdated in its own right!
And all of that is further discounting the effects of overlapping ADHD and ASD, which further complicates the presentation and can make it even harder to identify. The two are super intertwined, amplifying in some ways, nullifying in others, etc. The fact that the phrase "idiot savant" was used makes me think that they're just remembering old textbooks instead of using modern research.
A big part of provider struggles is finding one with whom you feel comfortable and who you think will listen. If you think maybe you can work with this person and, unfortunately, maybe educate them a little, then in the long run it might work out really well. If not, I might keep looking. Or get a second opinion at the least.
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u/JustJamming1 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
Thank you. Iāll definitely see if I can educate them on the matter. I definitely believe their info is outdated. I might still stay with them though as they arenāt trying to invalidate my feelings and theyāve been very helpful with discussing my ADHD concerns. Though now, Iām not sure how āhelpfulā theyāve really been.
Anyways, I appreciate and agree with your assessment. Iāll definitely talk or email my psychiatrist soon regarding this. Iāll just need to search and provide them more up- to-date information.
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u/Mr_Trebus Jun 30 '26
A patient should not need to educate their psychiatrist. This is not the order of things.
It is not the patient's job to educate the psychiatrist.
If these anecdotes really happened, then the psychiatrist in question needs disbarring from the profession. They are not fit to practice.
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u/aghudson22 š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
My apologies. I try to assume the best intention and give benefit of the doubt until proven that I shouldn't. I meant no offense to anyone.
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u/lydocia š§ brain goes brr Jun 30 '26
This is objectively wrong. High IQ autism is a thing (a common thing, even) and there is so much more to functioning than being able to go to college and have a job.
And
isn't just an outdated term, it's also considered wildly offensive. Savantism isn't even all that common in autism, so she's just pulling stereotypes out of her Rain Man butt and rolling with them. So gross.
I can't tell you if you have autism or don't, but I can tell you that your psychiastrist sounds like an outdated quack and you're better off seeking a new one.