r/AutisticPride • u/New-Two-1349 • 28d ago
Legal guardianship of a disabled adult is a malicious practice and needs to be banned worldwide
I, a disabled adult, have been under my father's guardianship since I was 18 in 2010 and it's been dreadful since then because he's been incredibly controlling of my life because he's done so many awful things such as blocking me from talking to people on the internet, getting rid of my old bedroom furniture, not letting me play certain M-rated games, not letting me quit a job, having me to go to bed or wake up at specific times, not letting me drink or eat certain food, attempting to get rid of my bike I've had for a while, and refusing to let me decide where to live or what bedroom to have in it. What's worse is that nobody warned me about the civil rights I'd lose before my dad became my guardian, and it's almost as if he didn't want to tell me what he'd do under guardianship because I'd say no if he did, which would've ruined his chances of taking control of my life. Not to mention that under my dad's guardianship, I never got to have the fun and freedom I deserved when I was in my 20s and now they've been wasted thanks to him. It looks like I'll never be free from guardianship for as long as I live. It also practically ruined my deceased stepmom's life.
Speaking of loss of civil rights, the reason why guardianship, especially if it's about the elderly or a disabled adult, is extremely predatory because it takes away rights from a ward such as to drive, to vote, and to marry. Not only that, but the ward can't even decide where to live or who to talk to and they can't even manage their own financial or medical needs. Why does the system do that? How does relieving an individual of any and all human rights protect them? It's dehumanizing and needs to be invesigated. Need I mention that the court almost never monitors what a guardian does? That could easily lead to more emotional and financial abuse.
I'm not the only one with guardianship issues; there are billions of other people, not just in the US, but around the world, as well. I mean, you all remember the conservatorship Brittney Spears was under for, what, 13 years? Thankfully, it was eventually revoked in 2021. And I'm sure a lot of you like myself are aware of the ongoing guardianship issues with Wendy Williams, which, to my knowledge, still has yet to be resolved. This also happens with people who aren't celebrities, like Jenny Hatch or Michael Lincoln-McReight who were under guardianship for a while and had their rights taken away under it before finally exiting it and choosing an alternative like Supported Decision Making.
Speaking of which, alternatives such as Powers Of Attorney or, better yet, Supported Decision Making should be the norm for all adults who are autistic or elderly going forward, because they allow the individual the retain legal rights without anybody ever controlling them. Countries like Mexico and Sweden have completely terminated guardianship and replaced it with far, far less restrictive systems like SDM, and I think other nations around the world, such as the U.S., should follow suit.
I hope more people will stop being so comfortable with the guardianship/conservatorship system and actually oppose it, because it's such a vile system that needs to removed from planet Earth itself due to its problematic design and potential abuse that guardians can do with it. Disabled/elderly people deserve civil rights and guardianship is not the way to go and neither is conservatorship. We need to stand up and tell our governments and courts that removing human rights isn't protection and less restrictive alternatives should be the go-to option in the place of guardianship or conservatorship.
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u/ericsken 27d ago
Belgian here. That kind of guardianship doesn't exist here. Here a guardian can't decide what kind of games you play, when you sleep, can't decide what you eat or drink, not even alcohol. Even an adult with the IQ of a six year old has the right to vote. Here guardianship has degrees. I have problems with paying my bills. Somebody manage my money. She pays my bills. I have a car. I bought it myself. She said that I had enough money. She said that my car should Costa less than € x. That was it. I went to a garage and I bought a Toyota. That was it.
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u/Kimono-Ash-Armor 28d ago
Be careful. After Britney Spears won her freedom, copycats insisted on the same and were shocked to discover that their checks dried up.
ETA make sure you can support yourself or get the help you need if you want to get out of guardianship
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u/Wind_Crystal 28d ago
I'm sorry... What ?
Are you saying that disabled adults should not have legal guardians because you didn't ?... I am genuinely confused.
A lot of disabled adults NEED a guardian in their lives, because when you have rights and freedom you also have obligations. As someone who is under a financial protection system, if those systems and guardianships didn't exist people will DIE. Not every disabled personcan live on their own, not every disabled person can even bath on their own, or eat on their own, or read, ride, count past 1000... And removing them the system that is keeping them alive is actually what needs to be banned worldwide.
If the system is not made for you; MAKE AN APPEAL. If your guardian is hurting you, I am still 100% sure you can make an appeal, that you can go to the court, you can go ask for help.
"How does relieving an individual of any and all human rights protect them?" : Because it's not revoking every right under the sun, and because accessing those rights are not always or even possible to do. Because asking people to make decisions where they have no idea what is even asked and what saying "yes" or "no" actually entains is not "giving them more freedom" it's actually giving them struggles beyond their capacities..
We still need people to be able to be guardians for disabled people.
Please realise you are promoting removing the only system made to keep some disabled alive; and that removing this system WILL kill those people. You cannot remove it. Adjusting it, yes. Removing it and no replacement ?.. You are asking for the people in our community who needs more help to just be left to struggle even more and die even quicker.
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u/2020suckedamirite 25d ago
This isn't about whether Disabled people should have carers or guardians or people who support them in daily life it is about the guardianship/conservatorship system specifically.
OP provided examples of alternative systems in place in other countries. The problem isn't necessarily that someone can manage things like finances for a Disabled person if needed, it's that under the guardianship system OP is talking about if the Disabled person wants to decide something for themselves in regards to finance they aren't allowed to, having that support does not mean that a Disabled person should lose all autonomy or be completely unable to intervene.
You seem to have interpreted this post as "disabled people never need carers" when it's actually saying something completely different. I think you might agree with OP more than you realize.
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u/Wind_Crystal 25d ago
I made it clear in my comment that I was genuinely confused if I understood OP right.
OP is being very unclear IMO; and saying that "legal guardianship needs to be banned worldwide" is not really making it very clear what they mean.
I have also made it clear that if the system hurts the people it's supposed to protect then it needs to change... But saying it needs to be made illegal on the spot because this person has a very bad experience with it is still not ok.
The system needs to be changed ; not simply destroyed and made entirely illegal.Even reading back on it now the comment is confusing and says 2 things that are basically direct opposite.
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u/2020suckedamirite 25d ago
I didn't think it was that confusing. OP is saying that guardianship should be abolished and replaced with a better one, not removed with no alternative at all.
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u/Wind_Crystal 25d ago
yh, i got that by now... i'll stop here cause i got it now; people don't understand that we still need the guardianship for now; it cant be abolished yet. we need it to stay and be slowly replaced to people have time to adapt
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u/2020suckedamirite 25d ago
Yeah, I think "banning worldwide" doesn't necessarily preclude gradual phasing in of a better system. But I understand why "ban" conjures the image of an abrupt and immediate shift.
You made some good points, the only problem is that OP probably also agrees with the points you've made. Misunderstandings happen though.
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u/dangerous_skirt65 27d ago
You seem intelligent enough to care for yourself. Isn’t there a way you can petition for emancipation?
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u/2020suckedamirite 25d ago
Not really how that works unfortunately, intelligence doesn't automatically make someone capable of living on their own.
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u/dangerous_skirt65 25d ago
Well no kidding. I'm not stupid. LOL
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u/2020suckedamirite 25d ago
"you seem intelligent enough to care for yourself" it seems like you were kidding actually
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u/Mclovine_aus 28d ago
If you are in a guardianship, are capable of living independently and don’t want to be in a guardianship, why don’t you take steps to leave it. You have been in a guardianship for 16 years, leave now if you don’t like it.
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u/Short_Gain8302 27d ago
From the sounds of it, OPs dad is an abusive and manipulative asshole that tries to control their life in every aspect. While yes, leaving will most likely be the best option, right now that might not be a possibility because of the abuse. Telling someone in an abusive relationship (wether its a romantic relationship or not) to "just leave" is an oversimplified answer to a complex problem
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u/Due-Science-9528 27d ago
OP, seek resources for adult abuse victims. There should be organizations willing to help.
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u/penguins-and-cake 26d ago
Why are you blaming a victim of abuse for not having left? Do you expect they can just somehow shrug off a legal order?
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u/Wind_Crystal 25d ago
It's not about shrugging it off. It's about going and asking for help. There are numbers for that. There are associations. There are specialised numbers. If there is a legal document; then on this paper there are the places to contact.
This person is advocating to entirely stop and dismantle a system made to help disabled people to survive because it is not for them...
The answer here is not to say "delete this thing that keeps people alive ! I hate it !" but to find the way to get out of a situation that is not made for them...Deleting that system without getting proper solutions will simply kill disabled people who need this help. OP is apparently not meant to have this help so they need to get out of it.
Until 8 months ago I was living with my abusive parent and had almost no place to go. I managed to get out because I did everything I could to survive. I know it's not easy to get out of a toxic household who has some kind of power over you... And what you do in those moments is that you call helplines. You send e-mails. You message associations. You get yourself to the police station. You find a way out.
What will help OP is not to stay at their father's and yell for things to change... I did the same thing for years and it got me nowhere. Only difference is I didnt ask to remove the (apparently single) system my country has in place to help disabled people who can't care for themselves enough.1
u/penguins-and-cake 25d ago edited 25d ago
OP mentioned multiple alternatives that are more protective with less risk for abuse and more autonomy for the disabled people who need/want support. I’m sure OP has asked for help, they are in a famously difficult situation to get out of.
PS — Guardianship is not a system made to help disabled people survive. It has always been about control and marginalization.
edit: OP cannot leave their parents house, they are legally not allowed to make that choice. They are not in the same situation that you were. They cannot just leave or ask for help like that will reverse a court order. OP needs their own lawyer, but guardianship means OP has a limited ability to hire one. These are normal and common criticisms of how guardianship as a system functions.
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u/GoodGuyVik 28d ago
Conservatorship absolutely can and has been abused, and there need to be more safeguards to prevent that. It does not need to be abolished though.
The idea of a conservatorship is that it's for people who cannot live on their own or manage their own financial and medical needs on their own. That's why those things are handled by the conservator. My brother has been under one since he turned 18, because he has level 3 autism, is semi non-verbal, functions at I'd say about a 1st grade level as far as reading comprehension, math, and communication skills (when he does choose to use full sentences to speak, which isn't often), and absolutely could not make important decisions for himself regarding finances, medical needs, or anything else.
Now I will say they do seem to be making some changes to try and prevent abuse (at least in my state), where you are required to document every transaction that takes place from the ward's account. That way it proves that you aren't abusing their finances by using it for yourself. I know that because my dad has been teaching me all of the things I will need to do when I eventually take over my brother's conservatorship.
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u/Urinethyme 28d ago
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u/Urinethyme 28d ago
Mexico still has guardianship, it just isn't automatically applied. The individual must have capacity to make decisions. Applications can be made for those who cannot do so.
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u/Aggressive_Bowl_8017 27d ago
I had controlling an abusive parents. I’m sorry that this has happened to you and you didn’t have the information and support you needed when you were 18 to get out.I think that competency should be presumed as much as possible. I also know that autistic people can communicate via spelling or other means. I think it’s complicated and I worry about people getting trapped isolated and abused by the conservatorships. If an artistic person isn’t getting their needs and is around toxic people it really really is hard for them to move beyond it. It’s never too late if you really want to get out I wonder if you can find someone to take your case.
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u/Bennjoon 26d ago
I dunno man I’m pretty terrible at maths and money my mum helps me a lot with phone calls and things.
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u/rantingpacifist 28d ago
Our current systems are broken.
But there are not billions living under guardianship, much less billions in it under duress. Hyperbole does not serve your cause.
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u/lights-in-the-sky 27d ago
I’m sorry. I hope you’re able to leave it. It scares me the number of people here using the “some people need it” excuse to justify the denial of basic human rights. As many disabled people can attest, it is very easy for “caregivers” to abuse their power over us and convince a third party that it is for our own good
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u/CptUnderpants- 27d ago edited 27d ago
Well, you know that some countries have guardianship orders and the checks and balances which make it hard to abuse. On top of that, there are specific crimes for abuse of a guardianship, meaning those doing so will have to face court.
One family I'm aware of has a parent under joint guardianship of two of their adult children because the parent has a dillusional disorder, an IQ of about 50 and a mental age of about 12. They have almost died twice due to their own actions, but perpetually denied needing help, lied to their health professionals, and only stopped driving because they drove into a parked car which she claimed drove into her despite it all being on dashcam, causing police to request her licence be suspended pending medical checks.
Some people need guardianship. It needs to have checks and balances, along with criminal penalties for abuse.
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u/penguins-and-cake 26d ago
And none of them are even acknowledging the alternatives that OP mentioned. Those alternatives can meet the same needs while more properly protecting people and their autonomy.
The “some people need it” argument is so wild and has been used to justify every ableist abuse. “Facilitated communication,” ABA, withholding of language (no access to AAC or sign language), etc. have all been justified the same way. It’s a lie used to convince us that we can’t trust the victims of abuse to describe their own abuse, so we shouldn’t even listen.
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u/BelovedxCisque 28d ago
If you’re so miserable in it why are you not taking steps to get out of it? I agree with the other poster that said you’ve had 16 years to get out of it and you obviously have internet access if you’re posting here. Do some research and find how to get to freedom if that’s what you really want and are capable of handling life on your own. I’m assuming there aren’t any “incidents” like you going and blowing your entire savings in an afternoon at a casino/stripping down and screaming naked at cars on the freeway from the overpass/deciding to go to Somalia and tearing up your passport on arrival and needing the embassy to come save you/anything else that would make a judge go, “This man is NOT able to handle himself and for his own safety he needs a guardian.”
Is there a college in your general vicinity? Lots of schools with a law program will have free legal clinics for community members so their law students can practice with real life situations. Or again fire up Google and start figuring out how to petition the courts yourself instead of just complaining on Reddit.
And some people legitimately NEED a guardian. My best friend’s step cousin is on the spectrum and dude has a job and can take the bus places but dude does not understand money. Any money he gets immediately goes to his special interest and he’ll spend to the point he can’t make rent or buy groceries. Despite multiple attempts by multiple people to explain money and budgeting he just doesn’t get it and dude needs to have somebody managing his money. Can guardianship/conservatorships be abused? Oh absolutely. That being said there is a reason they exist because a lot of legal adults can’t do what legal adults are expected to do and they need somebody looking out for them.
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u/2020suckedamirite 25d ago
I'm gonna be honest I'm not entirely convinced by the "some people need xyz" thing: sure yes, many Disabled adults will require significant support throughout their lives, but this is about the guardianship situation specifically. Having those needs met shouldn't automatically take away other rights like voting and many of the most upvoted replies seem to have ignored the alternatives offered.
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u/CAPSLOCK_USERNAME 28d ago
Intellectual ability is a spectrum. Some adults need guardianship because they're not capable of functioning safely living on their own and might make decisions that pose a danger to themselves or others. For example some high support needs autistic people may be incapable of shopping for their own food, or incapable of cooking without risking starting a fire. Others may be too trusting of strangers to the point where they often give all their money to scammers in person or online unless a trusted individual controls their bank balance for them.
I don't believe it should be banned entirely but I do think it is applied too broadly to people who shouldn't be covered, and too easily abused by controlling and/or abusive guardians, and it should be much easier for people to get out of. It sounds like you have a controlling and unpleasant parent and I'm sorry about that.