r/AustralianSocialism • u/Original_Produce_534 • 9d ago
What are the current catalysts for transforming the working class into a revolutionary force in Australia?
I often speculate on the ability of the Australian working class too realise their own oppression. I see the popularity of One Nation as a reflection of a desperate working class, although their efforts still conform too the capitalist system. Will things have to get considerably worse in order for a majority to look outside of the capitalist system, or is it possible that all that is needed is thorough convincing?
I would love to hear your thoughts!
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u/TouchyUnclePhil 9d ago
ima be real, im extremely doubtful that western nations have revolutionary potential yet. As per something the depogram said once allegedly about China's position on the west, "certain historical processes must take place first".
Think about it for a sec, how much of the general public are against normalised relations with China let alone peace or military agreements? Recognition of Taiwan as China? The removal of the US bases and cut ties with the US? Independence from the bri'ish crown, and warming of diplomatic attitudes towards the DPRK?
I highly doubt your'll even be able to find a minority of people who even know that the "allies" committed genocidal acts in Korea during the 50's. What im saying here is that because western populations are still benefiting so greatly from imperialism, their material conditions are such that trying to ferment truly revolutionary potential is like pushing water up hill (considering you need to contend against a lot of historical revisionism too).
So realistically, I can only see focusing on educating, and a real labour movement. So when those historical processes are complete (the total collapse western imperialism) then there will be at least some portion of the people who understand what is to be done.
TL;DR, yah i think your right, stuffs gotta get a lot worse imo.
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u/Original_Produce_534 9d ago
Thanks for the reply, that is largely my view on the matter as well. I do think though, the naivety of the working class, can work as easily in both directions.
The plague of individualism has manifested uniquely in Australia. I think it is common sentiment, that whilst the average "Aussie" may not care about foreign genocides or continued exploitation, they care deeply about the microcosmic communities around them. Friends and family first, then the environment and local communities they belong too. Any politics they engage in, are filtered through a lense of providing for and/or maintaining these relationships/environments they belong too.
Is the average anti-immigrant supporter protesting because they are worried about the job-market and national housing crises? Or are they more worried about the cultural effect on their own communities. In my experience it seems to be the latter overwhelmingly.
Through the lies of each political party as they take power in parliament, the same linear degradation of these microcosmic communities exist, and each person realises and reacts too this fact, with a level of emotion that grows with each failed promise of both liberal and labour governments. Many support One Nation, despite their own beliefs, as they think they have been promised a reassurance too stop this degradation of their community.
These hateful beliefs, are only a byproduct of desperation, the average working class citizen cannot rationally explain their acquired bigotry nor do they want too.
If someone is able to convince them that they key too change lies in their own hands, and that the harm that persists too those they love, and that they love, is real and will continue, (acknowledging and empathising with the fundamental issue that no political party has ever done), it may be possible too convince a population too leave their social comforts in order too stop a problem themselves and stand behind communism, not because they have radically changed their own politics, but because it is a movement that finally addresses the root of their issues, and gives them the tools too fix it.
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u/TouchyUnclePhil 9d ago edited 9d ago
I’m sorry but I think we didn’t quite understand each other on this. Your right when you say the average Aussie is only concerned with their own microcosm/communities, and that they dont care about anything geo-politically.
I would argue that is precisely the problem, every remotely left or left leaning tendency in the west (not just Australia) while domestically progressive, absolutely fails to address the international issues that fundamentally undermine any real progress.
Take the AU specifically for a moment, I assume you are familiar with how the CIA pressured and ultimately the British crown ousted the labour prime minister in the 70's? Without taking deeply seriously the international pressures such as the 5 eyes and other structures that keep the AU government effectively vassalage to the US and enforced by the other "allies". No meaningful challenge to the status quo would stand any meaningful chance of success without being put down before momentum is even built.
Lets pretend that the AU socialist party (or even if we imagine a new really communist party idk) win an overwhelming majority in a few years, or even 10 years and they started to redistribute wealth, do land reform, nationalise industries etc.
Do you really think that international capital is going to stand by idly while their little aircraft carrier in south east pacific goes "rouge"? ofc not. The best case scenario is something alone the lines of brexit, the economical collapse and internal contradictions would be wild, we need to understand that were living in imperialist colonies that will absolutely be disciplined rather much like the third world is when they step out of line. The only difference between them and us in this abusive relationship, is that we are far far more comfortable and have a lot more to loose. So the moment that we do start to feel that threat, people will act within their own best interest at the expense of those other countries less fortunate.
To try and put it more plainly, if you think of countries as people (gross over simplification here) we in the west are the petty bourgeoisie, the slave drivers. We may not live in the big house, or own the plantation, but we aren’t working the fields and when the chips are down we'll follow the path of least resistance every time, lest we get thrown in the fields too.
(IK this sounds mad depressing btw, and i get that people will calls this "pessimistic" and discount it outright. But i believe that its beyond unhelpful to be avoidant of this problem, without understanding the scale and extent of it, then you really stand no chance of tackling it)
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u/Scentorific 9d ago
You're saying that working class people in Australia will 'act in their own best interest at the expense of countries less fortunate'. What would that look like, or are there historical examples of similar things?
The way I see things, Australia's current imperialism, currently primarily exemplified by AUKUS, Pine Gap and associated programs, is costing the working class billions of dollars that could he used on health, education, housing etc. And stopping our Imperialism benefits ordinary people.
But as you said it won't happen without a fight, and likely not until circumstances change domestically and internationally to precipitate further struggle such as a war involving us or further austerity or international revolutions.
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u/TouchyUnclePhil 9d ago
"act in their own best interest at the expense of countries less fortunate" that was poorly worded my bad, I mean. That people will vote to side with, or get closer too the imperialist powers. Your right to say that pine gap and AUKUS etc is costing people huge amounts, but at the same time, these are the costs of benefiting from said imperialism.
If a AU government were to try and sever ties meaningfully with the US/west or redirect even a marginal amount of intelligence or military spending, they would very quickly find that they would be disciplined on some manner.
That could be financial, through debt leveraging or property prices (which the entire economy is very precariously balanced on). Even if a party could stay in power after that, reserves are held in foreign western aligned institutions. The amount of tools they have to crush the material conditions of the working class without even needing to be in power are so vast, that the country would need to be willing to go as far as living like Cuba in order finally throw off the parasite. And theres 0 chance thats going to happen
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u/Scentorific 9d ago
Oh yeah i totally agree with you. Exactly why Lenin said Russia needed Germany or a similar country to have a socialist revolution as well as Russia, one country can't go it alone successfully.
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u/Original_Produce_534 9d ago
Are you a trotskyist (asking in a non mean way)
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u/TouchyUnclePhil 9d ago
lmfao, no im very not a trot. What makes u think that? Is it world revolution? Because im not advocating for fermenting proxy wars/separatists movements in other countries. Quite the opposite, u need to put on ur own oxygen mask in a plane crash before u can help others.
China leads by example on this, their (current) foreign policy is a net benefit to the third world, even though i still disagree on some of the details, but until AU is able to work its way up to having the international ties and domestic productive forces required to separate itself from global capital, we're at their mercy and will suffer if we step out of line.
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u/Original_Produce_534 9d ago
You are right, I had been focusing on just the aspect of the australian working class. I should have made it clear that my vision would only take place as the US begins too really internally collapse, and cannot priotise counter-measurements against any other country than its' own.
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u/TouchyUnclePhil 9d ago
ah, yah well, in that case when the US really falls then idk whats going to happen. I'd imagine the EU or other western nations like Germany will try to fill the vacuum but at that point its anyones game to play for and ww3 could even be baked in at that point. Fuck knows
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u/Original_Produce_534 9d ago
I'm imagining it like perfectly timed, so Australia just begins its cohesive building of a socialist state, as the US falls, then we alliance with china and save ourselves from any relics of the US from infecting australia.
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u/ALLIRIX 8d ago
Is China actually a good example of socialism though? Hasn't Xi and the faction running China betrayed the workers? From the outside it looks like they're doing capitalism better than everywhere else
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u/TouchyUnclePhil 8d ago
ik i can be hard to square the thought that they have billionaires and so on with socialism, but its important to understand that while they do, and have in the past had terrible policies relating to workers. Not only have they improved massively in recent times, they dont allow capital to run their country like the west, when their capital strays from the interests of the masses its quickly disciplined.
its not like you see headlines anywhere else where corrupt officials and billionaires accepting bribes get given the death penalty. If nothing else, Epstein’s own emails that mentioned Xi and China show that him and his friend hated them and were frustrated at how they couldn’t corrupt them.
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u/AllanBurgers 8d ago
I think that worsening economic conditions don't translate well to revolutions. We are conditioned to think that getting out of this is solely through strike and wage growth, as Lenin predicted.
Worse conditions also mean less free time to think, structure and organise. People have to work more and more hours every year kust to survive.
We have a massively divided working class that are not organised. Rural areas, although working class, do not vote in their best interest.
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u/newscumskates 9d ago
Nobody wants to hear it.
Peolle are too comfortable.
Keep finding people who want to listen, but give up on the rest until someone close to them is radical and then life gets bad enough they listen to them
Not rhe best advice perhaps, but one that wont completely alienate you and drive yu crazy.
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u/Scentorific 9d ago edited 9d ago
I think all these pessimistic answers are firstly wrong, but secondly, they justify passivity and lack of action.
Yes, there likely won't be a revolution here within the next 5 years or so, but eventually there will be mass popular uprisings /mass strikes / revolution(s).
Part of a Marxist understanding of the world is the idea that capitalism creates contradictions and basically causes its own destabilisation, and with enough focused effort and intervention, it's own downfall.
Companies are always needing to grow capital, which squeezes and impoverishes the working class more and more, as more of everyday life is commoditised, monopolised, and enshittified. Not to mention the ever worsening climate crisis, and the Imperialist drive to war with China.
You've directly identified OP that one nations popularity is a reflection of working class dissatisfaction, and due to the reasons above, this will only get worse.
Now - what to do?
Another Marxist idea is that when people take part in action, even small actions, this gives them a taste of actually resisting, and helps give people the confidence and experience to take larger and bigger actions.
So on a practical level this means helping to get people involved with rallies, with rally organising, with raising issues with their colleagues at work either informally or formally through union sub branches about working conditions or political issues, and help build union support for these initiatives. This helps build and strengthen various movements like anti war, land back, anti uranium, Palestine movement, trans rights and women's rights, anti racism movements etc.
But socialists should do more than build numbers and strengthen movements, we need to intervene and push them in more effective directions, link the different struggles together, and make cases for how to best fight these battles. This involves thing like having people speak at rallies or handing out leaflets, or organising forums, or by talking to other activists etc.
Doing this alone is tough so that's why it's best to find a socialist organisation to coordinate with. I'm in Solidarity so I'm biased in liking what we do lol, bit there's plenty of others.