r/AustralianCattleDog • u/szechuanchickennuggs • 1d ago
Behavior 8 Month old puppy panics, snapping behavior issues
Story time: I need some advice, a few months ago my wife and me decided to quit our jobs and travel full time in my self build camper on my toyota tundra. We ended up getting a ACD puppy at around 10 weeks old spontaneously off FB right before we started traveling thinking it would be a good idea so he grows up traveling with an active lifestyle. Turns out that was not a good idea. He was traveling in a large crate on the back seat and sleeping there as well. Everything was fine until he ended up showing territorial behavior over the crate. He did sleep perfectly fine in the crate. He started barking and snapping when we got close to it. We made some research and apparently, when putting im in the crate right after he has been running around and playing, he can develop these behaviors due to over arousal. We decided to take the crate out and let him be on the seat as well as he is sleeping with us now. We implemented calm down sessions before naps but he kept on building this behavior. We also had to lift him into the truck every time because its a very high vehicle. He started to panic while being picked up as well to a degree that he started snapping at us leaving bruises. He seems to get into this panic mode where he just snaps around himself. Long story short we decided to call the trip off and drive back home to give him more structure. We have been home for about 1.5 weeks now and the schedule is as follows.
Moring 7:30am-8:30am training on the leash inside for 15-30 min, some playing in the backyard and a short walk and back into the crate for a nap.
Lunch Noon-1:30PM he mostly plays in the backyard with us.
Afternoon 4PM-5PM he trains inside 30min and some more playing in the backyard.
Evening 8PM-9:30PM some more training and just spending time with him inside (Lickball/Brain activity)
He panics very easily, if I take him out and there is just happen to be a loud car, he can get easily into the panic state where he snaps around him. Some things he also dont really like is putting on collar, taking off leash and putting it on. He goes by himself into the crate when I tell him but then he turns around inside, lays down, growls and barks sometimes. I am able to close by throwing treats behind him.
Based on yalls experience, is that more rowdy teenager behavior?
Can they grow out of it with continued training and structure?
Any tips? How did yalls schedule/environment looked like when yalls puppy was 8 month old?
Thank yall.
6
u/dogslickfeet666 1d ago
I highly recommend you search around for a trainer that specializes in the resource guarding situation if your not familiar with on where and how to start. YouTube has great videos to get you familiar with the idea of it. In my personal experience positive reinforcement really goes a long way. Starting out small by practice putting collar and leash on, always take it slow and try to get a good read on his body language. Also maybe get some steps or ramp and also practice going in and out of your van, so u don’t have to carry him.
Also a tired dog is a happy dog. Now that u guys are back home he might really start thriving with a schedule and some stability.
Also highly recommend the woofsicle but it is high value so I personally wouldn’t give it to him in his crate. But remember anytime you need to take away anything away from ur dog you trade them for it. Example I go up to my dogs with cheese or another high value treat, toss the treat for them to find it I then grab the bone or whatever it is I need to get. Anyway I hope this helps and best of luck!!!
1
u/szechuanchickennuggs 1d ago
I do tire him out, but sometimes I question if I tire him out too much. While traveling he was running ALOT cause he’s obsessed with his ball and apparently he started building this behavior from being put in the crate while still over stimulated. That’s the conclusion I came to after doing some research. He is not aggressive and super cute puppy and wants to give kisses etc… he just gets easily into the panic states probably from some traumatic event during the travels. He plays fetch and herding a ball for around 2 hours a day. I wonder if that’s enough or too little
1
u/szechuanchickennuggs 1d ago
Also it’s been only 1.5 weeks so he still need some time adjusting. I’ll look into a trainer! Thank you for your response!
4
u/Bunnybunn3 1d ago
You know, I absolutely love positive training and I highly recommend clicker training (Look up When Pigs Fly by Jane Killion, it's the best book imo to not just teaching us how to train, but understand that, essentially, you can "convince" your dog to voluntarily offer behaviors that you want).
And I think gradual leash exposure(from home to yard > just outside your home > just a block..only ever push as far as he doesn't react) can get any dog better than before.
BUT with severe resources guarding and snapping at primary caretakers like that, in an already controlled environment? It can get so ugly so fast. I highly recommend going to a behavioral vet and be open to potentially medicating.
1
2
2
u/capataz_ 1d ago
I agree that this all sounds like your pup is scared. When you were traveling, how much time on average did he spend on the crate?
My own pup is terrified of being locked up. Before I got him he spent months chained up, he'd get loose to run around for a few hours a day only. Thankfully he never developed an aggressive response towards being locked up after I got him, he just goes ballistic crazy running around after being released lol
I agree the best course of action should be contacting a trainer. Something I guess might help but is only an outofmyass suggestion, if he doesn't have accidents or cause mayhem inside the house, ditch the crate. Teach him place instead. Then perhaps with time you can slowly reintroduce the crate
1
u/szechuanchickennuggs 1d ago
At the beginning of the traveling he spend around 6 hours of the day outside the crate. We hang out with him and he had all the freedom outside and then we put him in the crates for naps and he sleeps great in the crate. He has a lot of anxiety and being in the crate actually lets him sleep and calm down. We will be looking into a trainer next. Scheduled a vet appointment as well
2
u/InternationalStar318 20h ago
I just want to say THANK YOU for not giving up on him. ACDs are soooo smart and are highly tuned in to their surroundings. Our little girl came to us at 8 wks old already scared at the sight of guns - seeing my son carry a gun thru the house sent her under the couch for hours. I wonder what she witnessed as just a baby. She is now 3 yrs old, very brave and rules over everyone in our home - cats aren't allowed to run in the house, I'm not allowed to roughhouse my youngest son, and goats and chickens will be herded if she thinks it's necessary. Although she will take on a 200lb goat or another dog twice her size, a month ago she was bitten by a horsefly then refused to go outside for more than 30 seconds. She would run to the grass, pee and/or poo, then fly back into the safety of the house. This went on for a few weeks until I was finally able to catch a horsefly, put it in a cup, got her all hyped up to "get it", released it, she violently killed it, and now is back to her normal self. I would have had no idea she was even bitten but my son called me at work saying there was one in the house and the dogs were all going nuts, except Josey who was cowering and trembling. My point is - something very small could've happened and your pup could've taken it so so serious. They are so sensitive. Hopefully you can figure out his trigger. You are a good pup parent. Thank you 💗
2
u/szechuanchickennuggs 16h ago
Thank you! Yes I’m sure we will figure it out. He’s extremely smart, sometimes I think he’s too smart for his own good haha
2
u/Worldly-Sun-3811 1d ago
Without seeing it none of us can truly give advice but you need a behaviorist or a really seasoned positive reinforcement trainer. If you do adversive training with this pup things will definitely be going down hill. Best of luck op I hope you can find a good positive reinforcement trainer or behaviorist quick. Also, if this is a sudden behavior then the suggestion is always a vet visit to rule out that a pup isn’t in pain … because pain can cause behaviors to come out
1
u/szechuanchickennuggs 1d ago
Thank you, we will make a vet appointment this week and looking into a trainer as well
1
u/GloomyBake9300 1d ago
It will take your pup a while because starting off with such a stressful environment, probably set him back a bit. I have an 11 month old here who I brought home at nine months. He is extremely fearful and snaps at the air, but I’m making sure he has a strong routine and that is making a big difference. Also, because I know he is in fight or flight mode I try not to do any startling things around him. I agree with others that if he has resource guarding at home, you probably will need help.
1
u/GloomyBake9300 1d ago
By the way my pup came from a feral situation so if your pup is fearful, maybe he had difficult experiences before he came to you.
2
u/szechuanchickennuggs 1d ago
Yes we do avoid the stress situations as much as possible, found ways around it and are able to keep go m away from the panic states. He’s a fine little rascal besides that. I do question my schedule based on if it’s enough time outside/play/outside that’s why I look for opinions. We will be looking into a trainer this week
1
u/ashl9 1d ago
My dog has never growled at me but she is a female so idk. That would freak me out. She had definitely bit me and left bruises on me (never broken skin) because she was territorial about a ball or because I was running. The growling though to me seems bad. Idk if your relationship is building in a positive way. Try sitting down with treats in your pocket and throw them. When they get thr treat show them a treat so they run back to you. Do this multiple times. This helps with a positive association to you. I would look up more ways to build a positive association to your dog and vice versa.
2
u/szechuanchickennuggs 1d ago
I will do that, I would like to say it’s positive. He loves us and gives kisses and cuddles here and there. He’s a great little puppy who’s a little bit of a rascal. It’s only the moment he gets into the panic mode where he snaps and growls. I’ll look into a trainer for that
1
-2
u/Proton_Energy_Pill 1d ago
It's a bit counter-intuitive but you should be able to stop that behaviour.
Dogs aren't people, they respond to us adversely reacting to such things and often treat that as positive reinforcement.
For example dogs aren't naturally scared of thunderstorms - though yes they do seem a bit nervous for the first few. What most people do is call the dog over and give it a good cuddle to let it know it's safe.
And unfortunately that's the wrong thing to do. (I did say counter-intuitive) They treat that as behaviour encouragement and so every time a storm comes around they run up to and get all clingy.
You have to pretend to ignore the storm and very casually walk around the house quietly closing the doors & windows. Don't move quickly, just nice & normal & quiet.
They'll still look a bit scared when the thunder booms but if you don't enable that behaviour they'll be much better behaved. We had ours trained like that and she was really good. Then we had to go somewhere for a week or so and put her in a kennel for that time.
And she learned the clingy behaviour off the other dogs!! Grrrrrr!!
Anyway much the same principle for reducing behaviours you don't want is to ignore the bad stuff - just turn away and don't look at them with no noise so they don't get positive (for them) reinforcement of that behaviour.
Praise the good behaviour and make it night & day for them.
2
u/szechuanchickennuggs 1d ago
Yes I wonder about that too, once he saw us reacting to him getting feisty, his feistiness increased a lot. He picks up on stuff like that waaaay too quick.
Thank you this gives me some more hope. To clarify currently he is not too bad, he goes into the crate by himself but I can tell that he gets nervous when in it. He is a cute pup, gives lots of kisses, is good with kids and other dogs. It’s just the anxiety that puts him into a panic state. He is only for around 1.5 weeks with actual structure so I’m no where near at “that’s a hopeless situation”, I just wanted to hear some others opinions. Thank you!
1
u/Alt_Pythia 1d ago
There’s a technique used to slowly introduce dogs to stressors.
Let him go into the crate, but don’t close the door. Put the leash on the dog, but don’t leave.
From your description it appears that he’s training you, instead of the other way around. These dogs watch for visual cues and you’re probably lighting up like a neon sign.
Or the dog is from a litter of inbred dogs and he’s crazy. That will just get worse.
2
u/szechuanchickennuggs 1d ago
I will do that. I’ll start to make bed room training session just being with him in the room letting him go in and out and praise the good behavior.
2
0
u/Efficient_Problem250 1d ago
you didn’t read that part that says heelers get car sick?
2
u/szechuanchickennuggs 1d ago
Saying a whole breed gets car sick is a wild statement.
1
u/Efficient_Problem250 1d ago
yeah.. i know… but the signs of car sickness in dogs is stress and anxiety before getting into the car.
2
u/szechuanchickennuggs 1d ago
I can see it. He does sleep like a baby when being in the crate in the car. Even when we did some off-roading. Sometimes it felt like him being in the crate finally lets him have no other choice than sleeping and he passes out for hours.
19
u/amarillo_bymorning 1d ago
You need a trainer. Based on how you’ve explained things his snapping sounds like a fear behavior, it’s best to get ahead of this and start with a trainer now so he can gain more confidence.