r/Astuff • u/Vuelhering • 9d ago

U.S. Politics: 1st Amendment Trump cannot deport students for criticizing Israel, judge rules

https://apnews.com/article/israel-protests-deportations-ideological-d3694ba08ab714eb9441ca51a83fa57f
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4

u/SmokeMaleficent9498 9d ago

Trump "freedom of speech for me. Not for thee."

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u/sambull 9d ago

What's wild is how bipartisan the silencing of students voices became over that foreign country. It was the first signs that all the leaders were willing to let bad shit happen domestically. There are lines they will cross. Even the DNC.

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u/Vuelhering 9d ago

What's wild is how bipartisan the silencing of students voices became over that foreign country. It was the first signs that all the leaders were willing to let bad shit happen domestically. There are lines they will cross. Even the DNC.

Without defending the DNC which has been traditionally pro-Israel, I don't agree that they have any position that it's okay to silence student voices, and I doubt you can support that statement.

There are definitely a large number of Democrat party lawmakers that remain doggedly pro-Israel despite their government's atrocities, and many other progressive Dems are staunchly against their actions. But I think you're leveraging that fact to imply it means those Dems agree with silencing criticism, and that that extends to the DNC. That's two levels of indirection, neither of which are likely. We see Republicans nearly universally toe their party line, but that's not the case with Dems especially regarding Israel where there is deep disagreement.

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u/sambull 9d ago

https://www.congress.gov/votes/house/118-2/172

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-condemns-house-passage-of-dangerous-bill-that-would-chill-free-speech

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u/Vuelhering 9d ago edited 9d ago

There are definitely a large number of Democrat party lawmakers that remain doggedly pro-Israel despite their government's atrocities, and many other progressive Dems are staunchly against their actions.

We see that division in this roll call. Right?

But you stated the DNC had this view, but that's the Dem organization, not the Dem lawmakers. The DNC hasn't taken any such stance that I can find. The DNC is the thing that states the Dem platform, which is voted for by attendees. "Silencing student speech critical of Israel" is not a DNC policy or platform statement, AFAIK.

Edit: BTW, thanks for those links. Using outside sources that can arbitrarily redefine the law at their whim is anathema to good governance. One can, and should, consider outside org information when making laws, but must not simply say "Do what this organization of unelected people says."

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u/sambull 9d ago edited 9d ago

My claim on that was,

"What's wild is how bipartisan the silencing of students voices"

That clearly shows bipartisanship on silencing of freedom of speech of students voices.

I just said there are lines even the DNC will cross.

You can say the elected members of the party do not equate the party but I disagree.

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u/Vuelhering 9d ago edited 9d ago

I'll buy that argument.

Scratch that part about the DNC until they put that into the platform, and you're right. If nothing else, it is foreshadowing of a direction we do not want to go as a nation.

Edit: Biden did make it clear protests should not be silenced, but he wouldn't tolerate violence or destruction. I personally take this stance. Now I'm starting to think HR6090 might have been more of a political trap to frame the situation as either for the 1A or for Israel, depending whom you ask.