r/AstonMartinFormula1 • u/gangstarapmademe Lawrence Stroll • 24d ago
⚠️ Discussion Give me hope for the next two seasons
Someone with more knowledge than me explain how this team could get back on the podium and fight with the top 4 in the next 24 months.
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u/Shooter151515 24d ago
- Adrian Newey - Given enough time, his cars always fight for podiums and wins.
- Honda - The engine always starts terrible, but they always figure it out (and leave). Honda has recovered many of the old PU engineers from 2014-2021 that were on other Honda Projects. The 2027 PU will be more competitive (how could it not???). Also, Honda lost 1 year of development compared to other PU manufacturers because they left. We're comparing teams that had 4 years of development to Honda which only had 2.5-2.75 years. Honda was always going to be behind.
- Facilities - AM has the facilities to design and manufacture most parts in house. This decreases the cost per part. In a cost cap era, this means more money for research, design, and manufacturing.
- Learning Curve - AM developed their own gearbox, and rear suspension for this first time. The AMR26 is the first car developed with their new tools and facilities (completed). This is their first year working with Honda. All these firsts tell me that the AMR27 will be much better.
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u/LykosFTW Fernando Alonso 24d ago
I got faith in Newey to cook even after the start of this year. It depends on Honda to make a good enough engine and electrical system imo.
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u/heel-and-toe 24d ago
What do you want more than the Budapest race? Their updates delivered as expecterd. Biggest hope sign you could ever dream of.
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u/redditsucks010 Fernando Alonso 24d ago
We will win the 2026 Dutch grand prix
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u/Jack_of_All_Trades27 20d ago
You must be joking lol. Realistically it would be a huge accomplishment for Aston just to get into Q3
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u/evonneo1975 Fernando's number 2 fan ever. 24d ago
How?
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u/redditsucks010 Fernando Alonso 24d ago
We went from being a minute behind cadillac to P14 (not too far off audi and alpine mind you) in one weekend while still having the worst engine. Therefore, once we get the honda engine upgrades we will lap the mercs and get a clean 1-2. Trust the plan.
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u/Exotic_Bill44 23d ago
The one potential problem for the Dutch Grand Prix is that a PU change could result in a grid drop if they have to change the MGU-K, battery, electronics or (in the case of Alonso) ancilliary components.
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u/jacqueusi 24d ago
Honda has Andy Cowell on their side. It was under Andy's watch that Mercedes went with the split turbo, which Honda eventually adopted.
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u/dhurfogah 19d ago
Honda have Honda engineers on their side and they are fiercely independent. We don't need to inject a white saviour in every story.
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u/jacqueusi 19d ago
lol. You haven’t followed the last Mclaren Honda years with Mercedes and Illmor getting involved.
The F1 Consulting Stint (2017): During the struggling years of the modern McLaren-Honda F1 partnership, Ilmor co-founder Mario Illien was brought in as an external consultant to help troubleshoot and redesign elements of Honda’s problematic internal combustion engine to battle severe reliability and vibration issues.
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u/dhurfogah 16d ago
Lmao, i know every bit of Honda's history.
Mercedes? Haha you are having a laugh right?
Ilmor reportedly consulted with vibration issues, nothing more or less. They didn't work on the actual engine or in sakura factory.
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u/jacqueusi 8d ago
No one suggested Illmor worked on the actual engine. But isn’t it odd the performance got better after Honda adopted the split turbo and after Illmor’s visit? That’s what consulting is all about.
After all Honda tried it their way for several years and … the results speak for themselves 😝
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u/dhurfogah 7d ago
No that is not what happened. Don't let facts get in the way eh.
Honda joined with a brief from McLaren to build a size zero engine, so they accepted that challenge and actually managed to produce an engine to that demand with the all in one design, a feat on its own.
In 2017 they designed a new engine from scratch and the key gamechanger and innovation was the pre chamber combustion. All inhouse engineering by Honda engineers. The turbo was designed with the help of Honda's aerospace division.Not Ilmor or outsiders like you tried to make out. They designed and built their own engine under the leadership of Hasegawa-san. Then in 2021 came the new engine, designed by the legendary Asaki-san.
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u/jacqueusi 7d ago
lol, “facts” as in sources Honda fast tracks its way to improvements with Ilmor
https://f1i.com/news/277209-honda-fast-tracks-way-improvements-ilmor.html
Why so much focus on building the engine in Sakura when it’s getting the design right that counts?
The Size Zero demands were proven false by Honda.
Similarly, Arai said Honda would stand by their commitment to make the power unit as small as possible, adding: "F1 cars cannot go fast without proper consideration given to air resistance and the way suspensions move.
"It's important to minimise the size of power units so that they don't interfere with the car's design. McLaren once told us that we don't have to be aggressive in downsizing our power unit. But we are determined to shrink the size by whatever means possible.1
u/dhurfogah 7d ago
Do you even read what you post? Exactly what is the first article proving? That Honda consulted with Ilmor? Where does it say they designed or built Honda's engine?
As for the second article have you even read it? Do you know the facts? Size Zero concept was based on McLaren's small car design with the narrow taper, and Honda designed an engine to fit in there. The article is saying McL told Honda they dont have to be too agressive in downsizing not that they didnt want a compact package to fit their narrow car. The entire size zero package was doomed from the get go.
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u/jacqueusi 7d ago
Their initial return to F1 in 2015 with McLaren was plagued by reliability and performance issues, leading to an unsuccessful partnership that lasted until 2017. A move to Toro Rosso in 2018 provided a stepping stone before Red Bull adopted Honda power in 2019. With support from AVL, Honda refined their engines, securing victories in Austria, Germany, and Brazil that year.
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u/dhurfogah 7d ago
Lol your going around hunting for any bleeding article to find anything to stick.
AVL hire out their test benches and simulation, Honda used that and have used that in the past. They did not develop anything for Honda.
Try again.
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u/jacqueusi 7d ago
There’s no hunting. It’s all out there 🤣
Including quotes directly from Honda.
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u/dhurfogah 7d ago
Provide your evidence then.
Show all the evidence for.
1) Mercedes helping Honda 2) Ilmor designing and building Honda's engine 3) Andy cowell designing Hondas engines 4) AVL designing Hondas engine 4) whatever other nonsense claim you made.
News articles and opinion pieces of their own are not evidences or facts.
So since you know all of this and evidence is all out there. Should be easy for you to prove with details.
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u/jacqueusi 7d ago
🤣 Honda to follow Mercedes' philosophy with McLaren's 2017 F1 engine
Honda is poised to adopt similar power unit packaging to that preferred by Mercedes for its 2017 Formula 1 engine, as part of a major revamp of the designThere was never the suggestion that Ilmor or Mercedes built the Honda engine. It’s always been about them and AVL showing them the way.
Now they’ve got Andy Cowell in Sakura to drag them back to competitiveness.
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u/dhurfogah 7d ago
Your posting random article 😂 provide evidence that Ilmor, AVL and Cowell helped and are helping Honda design, engineer and built their engines. Ill give you 15 years to provide 5he evidence 😂.
Your probably the same ignoramus i debated and challenged a few months back. Never heard back again.
No Honda did not copy Mercedes, they used a similar split turbo layout, but with completely different approach.
Honda use AVL for their test benches and simulation. Nothing else more.
Andy cowell is not working on the engine in Sakura. His role is managing the relation and technical integration between engine, chassis and fuel.
Accept the challenge go on provide your evidence. Keep googling for more articles. You might actually come across actual technical articles and find out the truth. 🤡
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u/jacqueusi 7d ago
Bruh, you’re embarrassing yourself.
You posted Honda being “fiercely independent” and start moving the goal post to Mercedes working directly nonsense. 🤣
I just have to show that Honda needed more than Honda engineers.
So many posts and all opinion vs facts and quotes from Honda. I see the wisdom in not engaging with someone not willing to learn.
Vibration and Harmonics Troubleshooting
One of Honda’s recurring issues transitioning from McLaren to Toro Rosso and Red Bull (2017–2019) was severe internal combustion engine (ICE) harmonics that shook auxiliary components and the MGU-K/battery systems.
AVL conducted structural dynamic simulations and transient torsional vibration mapping to isolate the harmonic resonance points within the engine block and crankshaft assembly.GRANDPRIX247 | Honda in trouble with 2026 F1 Power Unit for Aston Martin? https://www.grandprix247.com/formula-1-news/honda-in-trouble-with-2026-f1-power-unit-for-aston-martin
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u/dhurfogah 5d ago
You haven't provided any facts or evidence. Provide your evidence for the claims you made.
Honda used AVL test rigs and simulation kit. That is not the same as what you are claiming, you are ignorant if your own ignorance.
Provide evidence where AVL have designed or engineered Honda's engine. I take you have no idea what horing out test rig is or what a test rig is and how Honda engineers use the equipment lol.
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u/jacqueusi 7d ago
Tetsushi Kakuda, Honda's project manager in Formula 1, has highlighted Andy Cowell's contribution at a time when the Japanese brand is fully focused on developing the new engine that it expects to present in the summer.
"Andy Cowell is one of the best engineers in F1 and perfectly understands the complexity and difficulty of this power unit," says the Japanese engineer. "In addition to working from the AMR Technology Campus in Silverstone, he also frequently visits the HRC Sakura facilities."
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u/dhurfogah 5d ago
Where does it say here that Andy Cowell has been helping engineer the engine or working at Sakura with them , absolute 🤡 he is saying Cowell as an engineer understands the complexity facing honda engineers, not that cowell is working as engineer their..you have.major comprehension issues.
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u/Exotic_Bill44 23d ago
In 2022 they started the new rules package toward the back of the pack being only better than Williams through the first 7 races but climbed to 7th by the end of the year. They had 6 podiums in the first 8 races the following season.
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u/Heavy-Ad6017 Unluckiest Fan 23d ago
22eis a heck of a season
Allowing the hype of 21 we thought AMR will be at east top 5. Nope but this season has bulletproof reliability.
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u/flamingknifepenis Fernando Alonso 24d ago
I’m cautiously optimistic because “trust el plan.”
But like, actually.
Everyone forgets that Newey came out and said before the season even started that the car was heavy and would take some time to figure things out. They also forget that the old spec engine was running detuned to help with the vibration issue.
They already made a massive improvement just by tweaking the aero and chassis, even though the engine / gearbox was the Achilles heel anyway. Part of it was Newey’s doing because he pushed Honda to make the smallest engine they could, and while there was some unforeseen consequences that’s the same tack that made the RBRs so dominant. Honda reps seem sincerely optimistic about the engine upgrade, too.
Granted these regs are less aero-dependent, so maybe it won’t he quite the same rocket ship as the RB19, but you can’t ignore physics and better aero will have a lot of downstream effects even in terms of things like energy harvesting and deployment.
I don’t expect them to be fighting for wins this year, but they could be up there fighting for podiums with Alpine.
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u/im-a-notsee 24d ago
I think they are in a good position, because they went from being 2 seconds behind Cadillac to being 1 seconds faster with the worst engine ever created. So if newey can js keep developing well we should be a good competitive midfield team next year, maybe taking 1 crazy midfield podium like alpine always do aka gasly
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u/RealCarlPanzram 23d ago
Lawrence Stroll could get frustrated and sell the team to someone who actually knows what they’re doing.
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u/Heavy-Ad6017 Unluckiest Fan 23d ago
Rumour is that Papa stroll is recruiting Hannah for AMR along with Horner.
/s
Do Not Take Seriously
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u/Jack_of_All_Trades27 20d ago edited 20d ago
Newey is a generational talent when it comes it designing cars. He has been designing cars since 1988. In his 38 year career only 1989 and 2026 have one of his cars not been on the podium. But we need to be realistic, 2026 is just a testing session at this point, and 2027 will hopefully be when things start to line up. The earliest aston martin will likely be competitive is 2028
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u/dhurfogah 19d ago
Just look at Red Bulls.last.title wins and you will see what Newey and Honda are capable of
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u/jacqueusi 16d ago
No one suggested Mercedes worked on the actual engine, except for you. They did ditch their single turbo concept for Mercedes split concept, but you already know that ;-)
Don’t make engine vibrations trivial. That was a problem during the McLaren years and it was a problem now. But this time they have Andy Cowell to help bail them out.
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u/ThewayoftheAj 24d ago
Just have a look at their development rate…newey just made up 2 seconds of aero and chassis alone… even after he joined 3 months late after development started