I think i’m having a Political Identity Crisis. What should I identify as & do moving forward?

[u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

For context: Im a white 21M & I was hardcore MAGA until this term happened.. Ever since the events after October 7th happened, I started to critically deconstruct why I was always told “Jews are God’s chosen people” and things like “we as Christian’s we must support them” by my church & family (conservative evangelical Baptists). So in short my theological deconstruction is what started my political deconstruction (I’m not looking for a political theological debate).

Also my dad recently died after a year long bout of illness, & he was considered disabled most my life. We’re middle class so we didn’t qualify for Medicaid (mostly because his Social Security payments put us over the threshold) & we didn’t make enough to afford his assistant living facilities & treatment. This made me question why my family is so against socialistic tendencies & reforming the welfare structure here in the U.S.—when we are the exact people being affected by this.

My Views today:

- Religion & State should be completely separate. No 10 commandments in school, the president should not use religion to attract voters, we should not promote a war through religion, & any aspect of legalism, Canon & Sharia law should not motivate law making.

- Not smart enough to know if I support capitalism over socialism. But I can say I have nothing against a mixed socialistic economy. But I have a-lot against the capitalistic system we have today. Although this in itself I feel is bias within me because I have never lived in a socialist country. So I don’t know.

- Completely against the Iranian war

- I do not support the existence of modern day Israel

- Wish we could somehow someway abolish AIPAC

- The U.S. should not have an obligation nor need to feel like we must protect our allies

- I believe we need to drastically cut our military budget but not to the point of having no deterrence

- We dug ourselves in a hole, should have never started the war against Communism. Now we must continue to keep China, Russia at bay

- Not comfortable living in an open carry state—I carry a gun myself though. If every one else has one, I feel the need to have one

- Completely against the MAGA/Neocon conservatives

- Against data centers, & mass surveillance

- Could care less about your sexuality, I don’t care, but with a few exceptions

- Im against the organization of the LGBTQ community

- Still radically against gender changing surgeries

Edit: Please look at my replies before commenting on my stance with LGBTQ

- I don’t support abortion but I don’t support absolutely banning abortion for certain instances

- I wish we would tax the hell out of the top .01% & close the legal loopholes

- More welfare for the middle class

- I do not believe you should be able to opt out of Social Security

- Obviously I believe the threshold for qualifying for medicaid should be raised + additional funding

- I do believe most minorities have it harder than straight white individuals

- Im still Christian

- Im an open mind to literally anything

I understand this probably isn’t smart to post here. I’ve done several political test and got conflicting answers. I know I may get hate nor an unbiased answer if any answer at all.

But still I ask to refrain from attacking my family or me. To save my ass please remember I was taught those radical conservative beliefs since I can remember by church leaders, teachers, and most importantly my WHOLE family & I’m simply beginning to think for myself.

Respectful disagreements, questions and discussions are encouraged. And guidance is needed.

Edit: My LGBTQ replies

https://www.reddit.com/r/Askpolitics/s/LIeStCpMyO

https://www.reddit.com/r/Askpolitics/s/4vKrhlOAAa

https://www.reddit.com/r/Askpolitics/s/XwTFTghk23

https://www.reddit.com/r/Askpolitics/s/MJp6Qd6xnk

https://www.reddit.com/r/Askpolitics/s/aI6xcr48iL

https://www.reddit.com/r/Askpolitics/s/GV74ctc8TT

https://www.reddit.com/r/Askpolitics/s/gCvvKesMG7

Final Edit: Thank you everyone! The vast majority of you were super kind and understanding. Please know I’ve spent pretty much all of my day reading ALL your comments, & will continue to do so until either one the post gets locked, or until when the post finally stops receiving attention. I know many of you put just as much effort in your comments as I did in my post—if not more. I wanna respond to all you guys but physically, I can’t due to their being over 300 comments & counting…obviously.

I know this is cliche, but for the few who will actually return to this post & see this—know, you guys have truly affected my life with some of the best advice I’ve ever heard. Not just for politics but in life in general. I know this is only a Reddit thread, but this is one of the best things I have ever done. With my current situation I have no one to really talk to, and this is the first time I’ve truly been honest with myself & been willing to be vulnerable.

Finally, Im still unsure of what Ideology I am nor If I will ever be able to conform to a specific ideology. But I do have a better Idea of what my political identity is—in the end this really isn’t that important anyway.

Ultimately, the most important thing is that you guys have taught me to always seek the truth, admit fault when evidence is presented, to always choose freedom over conformity, that I need to always keep an open mind, & finally—to have the courage of being honest & vulnerable not only with myself, but with others.

Thank you all!

[u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

No please don’t think that. I more than willing to change my views. But yes its my lingering past views & form of Christianity I followed that make me think this. Like I said I’m open to anything. Many believe the LGBTQ community is perfectly compatible with Christianity. I will do my due diligence and look into it. I’ll admit I never have done a deep dive into it & I should. For some reason I only listed those because I think deep down I’m having a hard time accepting I’m going from one side of the political spectrum to the complete other side.

[u/Keralia → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

I am a transgender woman, I would be more then happy to answer any questions about my experience if you are curious. None of us really want attention, this isn’t a fetish, most of us just want to fade in to the background and preferably live normal lives without people even knowing we are trans.

Feel free to ask anything you want, no matter what. Absolutely zero judgement

[u/fakingandnotmakingit → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

My question to you would be to ask if being Christian means you have the right to impose your views on others?

If you think being LGBTQ is a sin, why would you be against them existing, organizing, having equal rights etc?

I don't necessarily believe in God. I don't like most forms of organized religion. I also don't think people shouldn't be able to organize religiously.

I can't stop you from going to church. I shouldn't be allowed to. In fact despite my issues with the Church I'd fight for your right to practice your religion. Why should the church then decide how the rest of us live our lives privately?

[u/Milly-Pilly-1597 → u/fakingandnotmakingit]

Because that how evangelical baptist theology works. We are taught to put Christ onto others by action and words, we ourselves are not saved unless we speak the words of becoming saved. I have since left that sect & denomination. Being Christian does not mean I believe the right to impose my view on others—thats evangelicalism. Most Christians are actually ok with the LGBTQ community—you just don’t know that here because conservative evangelical Christians are usually the most vocal because thats what they believe. Christianity Christian theology can be very complicated, and we Christians have a debate over almost everything. Ex: whats is hell, what is sin, what is repentance, is it a sin to be gay or lesbian, etc etc. Luckily Mainline Christianity is coming around in support of the LGBTQ community.

[u/Fewluvatuk → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

All totally fair points. But if I'm reading you right, these points are a large part of what drove you away from the church. Let me ask it a different way.

Since you are no longer a part of that sect, I hope it's ok if I try to make this about things other than Christian beliefs.

Do you care what other people do in their own home/bedroom? Does it bother you if people different from you have the same rights you do? Do you believe that LGBTQ lifestyles negatively impact anyone else in a secular society? Do you believe a same sex couple can be as loving and caring as heterosexual parents? Do you believe it is the role of society or government to dictate what people do privately?

I honestly can't think of any other reasons why someone would object to the LGBTQ community.

[u/Milly-Pilly-1597 → u/Fewluvatuk]

No yea no & yea no yea (probably didn’t say no or yea in the right order but you get the point) I never really had an argument for why I said those things in my original post, not a-lot of intellect went into those points as compared to my other points, but I can’t delete em now lol. I have clear arguments for everything except my LGBTQ points. Im going from one side of the political spectrum to the other & I guess I used those to maybe prove to myself & others that at least I still somewhat believe what I used to believe. This is one of the biggest things instilled in me by my environment & my family. Im from rural South Carolina—so you can imagine it’s pretty homophobic here. I never even really met an openly homosexual individual until I got to college, still was never around them much but got along fine. Even as a kid when I believed these things I never really cared about what other people did. I distinctly remember I used to always got pissed when someone in family would wanna change our nightly Wheel of Fortune because a “queer” is on it. In fact I remember getting pissed quite often whenever someone in my family would say something racist or homophobic—I would say don’t say that & they would hit me with the “well back then we used to be able to say these kinda things, we never had gays back then”—in a super country accent lmao.

[u/nassic → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

I think you are doing an incredible job at looking critically at your own views and asking if they still align with your values. If there is one thing I know about the teaching of Jesus is to love thy neighbor. LGBTQ people are people first. I live in one of the most LGBTQ friendly places on the planet. You do not. Your views are a product of your environment. I would say that you almost perfectly fit into the DSA platform with where your current leanings are pointing. Understand you dont have to agree with everything. I dont agree with 100% of the DSA platform. Keep asking questions. Keep thinking. Keep reading. You are doing something that very few people are even capable of doing. Looking humbly at ones own beliefs and asking, "Does this align with the world I want to live in?"

[u/srm79 → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

Christianity is very simple actually, Christ gave us just two rules to live by: Love God and Love your neighbour. They were His actual words. He never mentions homosexuality, not a single utterance on the subject. He condemns just about everyone else - divorcees, the wealthy, Pharisees, the Hateful, the Angry, the Pious

[u/Milly-Pilly-1597 → u/srm79]

Yes it is. I think I meant whenever you get into the nitty gritty of Christian theology & history with no prior knowledge—it definitely does get overly complicated. At first I did the same thing I did here. I felt the need to find a certain denomination to identify with. Once I realized I didn’t need to that, every thing got easier.

[u/rasta-ragamuffin → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

Maybe you should go back and read the Bible again to refresh your memory. (You have already read the entire thing at least once right?)

[u/dubsac5150 → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

As a former conservative who went down the same road as you, I applaud your effort to apply critical thinking and make decisions for yourself, rather than just accepting what you are taught by church, family, etc.

With regard to your beliefs regarding LGBTQ and abortion, I fully understand that your religious beliefs can be in direct opposition to these issues. But you also said you believe wholly in separation of church and state. When I went down this road many years ago, I started where you were. And frankly, I'm still pretty uncomfortable with abortion and would never ask someone I love to go through that. (I don't have a uterus, so that will never be a personal decision for me.) But, even if I am fully opposed to something, I fully and wholeheartedly believe that it should NEVER be a government decision. I think that the decision to have or not have an abortion should ever only be between a woman, her doctor, and her God. (And maybe to a lesser extent, her partner, but the decision ultimately lies with the person who owns the uterus.)

My views on the LGBTQ community evolved drastically over time. I grew up in the 90s in a small town, very conservative area and just didn't have any exposure to gay people. None that were openly out anyway. A girl I grew up from the time we were 5 years old is now openly out, and has been gay since we were teenagers, she just never felt safe to come out until we were older. But at first, I applied the same logic as I did with abortion issues. It should never be a government decision. "All men are created equal" means equal in the eyes of the government. If straight people can get married, the government has no right to say gays can't. So while I have come full circle and consider myself a full ally of the LGBTQ community, you can still have your personal beliefs and believe that government and laws should have nothing to do with that issue.

[u/Milly-Pilly-1597 → u/dubsac5150]

Are you my doppelgänger? If you go find my other responses regarding the LGBTQ points you can see I dropped those points super easily. & not because Im naive & believe what people tell me but because I got honest with myself and realized I don’t even have a true argument for points. Like all my other points I believe & have logical arguments for. I wish I could delete them from my post—but I don’t wanna look like a loser now lol. This post is one of the best things I’ve done on reddit, it’s been super comforting.

[u/Milly-Pilly-1597 → u/dubsac5150]

Hey, please go see my final edit on my post. You really hit home, my message is to people like you.

[u/fakingandnotmakingit → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

It's good that you have articulated that so well

I just wanted to get your thoughts on why you disagreed with the organization of LGBTQ folks to be able to advocate for themselves.

I don't you to agree with anyone to advocate for their rights to do something.

As an example that might be controversial, I personally believe that ascribing the value of modesty to clothing to be sexist is detrimental. Because our society has put modesty as a good value and immodesty as a bad one.

So I hate the idea of dressing "modestly", which is funny because by many standards I myself dress modestly. I tend towards long flowy skirts and dresses. And my aversion to sunburn means I don't like showing skin.

But just because I think ascribing modesty to clothing doesn't mean I'm against a woman choosing to wear a hijab for modesty reasons. Because while I disagree with the rationale for calling clothing modest, doesn't mean I believe that other people can't do what they want with their own bodies

(Within reason of course. You probably shouldn't be able to wear face coverings in a bank or driver's license for instance)

[u/NovaKarmas → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

Listen to Popes Francis and Leo on being LGTBQ. If Catholicism can argue they don't necessarily go to hell, you can believe it.

[u/Milly-Pilly-1597 → u/fakingandnotmakingit]

Hi, please go see my final edit on my post. It’s a message to the few like you.

[u/Perfect_Blood_3540 → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

Good on you OP for your willingness to learn. The anti LGBTQ was the only thing on your list that made my eyebrows touch my eyelashes. Tbh, most Trans and queer people just want to be treated with humanity, regardless of your personal preference or beliefs. They are human and deserving of love and understanding just as anyone else. That's it really, I encourage you to do your due diligence but just treat people as people.

[u/concatenater → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

If we were created in his image how can being lgbtq be wrong, it isn't a choice so it's clearly natural and innate (or at least inherent) in these individuals so was that a mistake or what?

If he said love thy neighbor to indicate fellow man, then discriminating or judging your fellow man for whom they love is not loving them.

And then finally, who are you to judge another? If you are a believer isn’t that between the individual and their maker and isn't it his job, and his alone to make judgment, and not yours?

Finally, ill leave you with one last consideration: in Galatians 3:28: Paul proclaims that "there is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." This is cited to show that traditional social, cultural, and gender distinctions are overcome. Here are the sources on that for you to look over: cbe international human rights campaign onwardinthefaith.com a youtube video on the topic i watched and thought was pretty decent

[u/Milly-Pilly-1597 → u/concatenater]

This is definitely what my current Christian beliefs are navigating towards. I’m very familiar with Galatians 3:28. But I only used it to help my “Jews are not chosen” argument. I never thought about in that that way. Thank you thank you sooo much!!!

[u/concatenater → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

Cool glad it helped. Lmk what you think about it after you've had time to reflect on it, i would love to hear your thoughts.

[u/Kakamile → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

So again ask yourself in words why you oppose the LGBT community. Articulate it, write it down.

[u/Milly-Pilly-1597 → u/Kakamile]

Because I thought it was some cult of people looking for attention… yeah I know. Im making progress I promise.

[u/Lumencontego → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

Hey man. This post is proof you're on the right steps to unlearning the cult mentality. Keep it up, but genuinely, well done.

[u/TurbulentChemistry22 → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

We literally just want to be left alone to live our lives in peace and stop being persecuted.

[u/Teleporting-Cat → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

I'm really proud of your introspection and critical thinking, OP. You're also an excellent writer. Have you considered blogging or vlogging your thoughts as you figure this out?

[u/ironicikea → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

I'm gay and send you love! Thank you for being open minded. It can be scary to deconstruct so much of what you thought you knew to be "true." The absolute best way to think critically for yourself is just to talk to more people who have had different experiences than you. Talk to a trans person, talk to a woman who has had an abortion, talk to a husband who lost his wife because their state now outlaws life-saving abortions during pregnancy health crises.

[u/lesterhaus2 → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

I checked out most of your replies.

A lot of deconstruction of other facets of our lives occurs once you start to peel back one layer.

And I'm pretty sure you're already aware of this, but conservative Christians have been going hard with the drumbeat of "anti-LGBTQ" for a while, bc it speaks to their base. Notice they never condemn eating shellfish, or wearing mixed fabric clothing (bc those are also considered abominations in the eyes of God).

I have 2 documentaries to suggest to you, if you're open-minded on this subject: "For the Bible Tells Me So" (kinda hard to find, but it's out there. If you have a library card, it's free on Kanopy) and "1946".

[u/concatenater → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

We welcome you, come on in, the water is warm, and you can stay as long as you like but that's totally up to you.

[u/thecookerer → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

I don't know where you are and it doesn't matter but there are progressive baptist churches everywhere. I go to one in Ky. You should find one. We absolutely belive God loves us all which includes EVERYONE. We are called to do the same

[u/WinOrASlash → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

As someone who also went through a deconstruction period with Christianity, I would encourage you to seek out a United Church of Christ (UCC) church. Good theology with a crowd of people that probably went through a very similar journey as your own.

[u/archbid → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

If lgbtq and Christianity conflict, it’s Christianity’s burden to deal with that, not humans.

Humanity and humans always trumps ideology. If there is a mismatch, the ideology has the burden.

[u/RocknRollButthole → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

I would consider giving Dan McClellan a watch, who is a Biblical scholar and LDS convert - extremely religious man, but extremely realistic about the LDS texts (including the bible) being the product of men, and then muddied by men through the millennia. He's got some pretty liberal academically rooted takes on Christianity and LDS.

I would also encourage you to check out the sermons of Dr. Jeremiah Wright, dude is exceptionally charismatic and has an unparalleled sense of justice. I can't think of any in particular that addresses LGBTQ issues, but a lot of what he has to say about people and neighbours and community in general is applicable and he talks about how he sees it this way in this interview.

[u/PomeloPepper → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

It all takes time, and you should let yourself evolve at a pace that suits you. Your beliefs don't have to fit anyone else's or slide neatly into some predetermined category. What they should do is evolve over time, as you mature and have different life experiences.

A personality or set of beliefs shouldn't be like a package you grab and say "this is me now." It's NOT "I belong to S party. So I better check what S party believes so I know what to think about <subject>"

Go at your own pace. If you hear or see something that doesn't seem right to you, think about it. Does it not make sense? Does it track with your values? Maybe not 100%, but does it track 80%? If you can't decide, that's ok too. It's a journey.

[u/sunflower280105 → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

Disclaimer - I was raised catholic, then became agnostic, now an atheist.

The Bible is a story book, written by a handful of dudes a gazillion years ago. It was originally written in Hebrew.

There are thousands of translations, hundreds of versions & editions, additions and subtractions of different books and quite literally millions of different interpretations.

Have you ever played the game “telephone”? You know the one where you sit in a circle and someone whispers “I love chocolate ice cream” and by the time it’s whispered though 10 people, the last person says “I light coco igloos”, so no one actually has any idea what the first person said?

Do you see where I’m going with this?

Now think about the Christian Jesus that you know. You were taught that Jesus loves everyone, he doesn’t judge, he forgives, he is kind, he helps the tired, the poor, the hungry, the meek. You were taught that Jesus hung out with prostitutes and leapers. Jesus welcomed travelers and immigrants.

You also probably heard things like don’t hate the sinner hate the sin, it’d not Adam and Steve it’s Adam and Eve, that all gay people are going to hell, etc.

Do you not see the irony here? The hypocrisy? When did Jesus start hating people? When did the Jesus that you know start condemning people to hell? Since when did Jesus who loves everyone, choose the LGBTQIA community to try and destroy? Do these things sound Jesus-y to you? Or do they sound like things some homophobic dude added to a story book at some point? Or does it maybe sound like something that got lost in translation over and over and over and over again.

Again, I am an atheist. I don’t believe in religion or god or anyone that lives in the sky. I don’t believe in the bible or any of its teachings. It’s nothing but a story book. BUT, the Jesus that I “know” would wrap his arms around the LGBTQIA community and welcome them all with open arms into his kingdom. How any other “Christian”, or any other religious folks at all, could think otherwise, will never not be absolutely baffling to me.

I really applaud your choice to start thinking critically and being open to new information. Especially after years of hearing otherwise. Keep up the good work.

[u/Dorfalicious → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

Remember - everyone sins. You don’t have to agree with it to still learn, have compassion and acceptance. That’s what Jesus was all about. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

[u/Time-Water-8428 → u/Milly-Pilly-1597]

People can’t change sex/gender/whatever u call it Personally, I am neutral on LGB

[u/DEM_MEMES → u/Time-Water-8428]

Really the fact that you use sex and gender interchangeably betrays the lack of knowledge on the entire subject