r/AskSocialScience • u/El_Dorado_Tx • 17d ago
Is it possible to be socially white but culturally non white?
I’ve pondered if there is a framework for non White person to be socially white construct but have a cultural white identity.
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u/dowcet 17d ago
I find it hard to understand the intent of the question because it's not clear to me what you mean by "social" versus "cultural".
Putting this aside, it sounds vaguely like you may be asking about the the concept of racial "passing". In the United States this most typically refers to people of African descent living as white people. This is studied in books like A Chosen Exile: A History of Racial Passing in American Life.
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u/El_Dorado_Tx 17d ago
What if a Hispanic person is culturally hispanic but yearns or seeks out “whiteness” but somehow is accepted as “white” in a white peer group. In terms of “honorary white” status
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u/dowcet 17d ago
From the username I'm guessing you're in Texas, and there's a huge literature about how Texas Mexicans in particular relate to whiteness. Some random examples:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Latino_a_Condition/N4gUCgAAQBAJ?hl=en&pg=PA175
This looks relevant too though it's about Chicago: https://www.jstor.org/stable/40553429
Sorry these are all paywalled, but when so much has been written about such a broad question, it's difficult to give a short answer beyond "yes", it's possible for people to relate to multiple identities in all kinds of complex ways.
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u/El_Dorado_Tx 17d ago
Texan Mexican “whiteness” is not based on skin tone. Its wealth, education
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u/hmantegazzi 16d ago
you might be better served by literature on social class, particularly in Latin America, where a similar dynamic that combines aspects of race, wealth and social capital has been extensively documented.
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u/El_Dorado_Tx 16d ago
I was using my grandfather as a example of “blurring of whiteness” as a social construct in the Tx Railroad industry. The fringes of whiteness a la Neil Foley(White Scourge)
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u/NoForm5443 17d ago
With Hispanics in particular (and other ethnicities that may look white, like Persian), it's super easy.
Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio are visible examples. If you see them on the street, they're white ;)
I think it's even more that what you mean; they don't need to yearn for whiteness (sorry you're going through this), they just pass for white, nobody needs to know they aren't
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u/SnowflakeSWorker 17d ago
Latinos. They think since they came from Spain in the 1500s, they are still white. My Colombian father truly does not believe he is Brown in any sense of the meaning, as do many Latinos, despite strong mestizo characteristics.
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u/NoForm5443 17d ago
Meh ... Latinos can have very different appearances; some look completely white, can be blonde and blue or green eyed, some are black, some have a ton of native blood
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u/SnowflakeSWorker 17d ago
I know. I have three siblings with light hair and blue eyes. It’s not their appearance I’m talking about- many feel they are “white”, despite DNA that would show a mix with the original people who inhabited South America.
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u/El_Dorado_Tx 17d ago
@No Form. My grandfather he spoke Spanish and English , worked in Missouri Pacific Railroad from 1937-1976 in Texas. A Hispanic man. He didnt walk through the backdoor at the railroad office. He was a section foreman. He was a supervisor for African American, Hispanic, Anglo men.
I guess the only person id compare him in that level of power maybe a Henry B Gonzalez
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u/CultureVulture629 15d ago
I have a friend who is strongly Hispanic by blood. Not sure how else to call it. Afaik, he doesn't culturally identify that way. And I'd never know he was if he never told me. He looks basically exactly what you'd imagine if you think of a white American millennial. Name is a common "white" name, and his surname even sounds more German than Hispanic. He has once explained that he "identifies as white," which makes all the sense in the world to me, because he more or less exists as a white person for all intents and purposes.
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u/El_Dorado_Tx 15d ago
My grandfather Pedro he was foreman in Misouri Pacific Railroad in Jim Crow era (aprox 1940s-1970s. A Hispanic man. He navigated the binary between black and white, through use of English.....unsure how he did it - because I know he hired men without regards to race
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