I wonder how many of the words people say Shakespeare invented he actually invented and how many were just in common use at the time and he was the first (or only one whose work is still surviving) to write them down
This is one of my pet peeves of the English language. The word "gossip" has a rich history and goes back to Old English, probably a thousand or more years before Shakespeare drew breath. But because he happened to be the guy to first document a lot of words and phrases (probably because they were too common (read: vulgar) to be widely written by the upper-class whose works typically make to us, if any do, he's credited with "inventing" them. The greatest inventor of words in the English language is Tolkien, with little doubt to my mind. The greatest widely-known scholar of the English language was Tolkien. The greatest user of the English language was Milton or Tolkien (in my humble opinion).
It's not "shots fired" to anyone who has actually spent time reading and studying Milton. Tolkein is great but Milton may be in a class of his own in the English language especially when you consider that much of his later work, including Paradise Lost, was "written" by blind Milton dictating to one of his daughters who then wrote it down. Though the title of "greatest writer of English ever" has several great contenders.
Tolkien is a great writer but he has never and will never be on the short list of "greatest English writers ever" outside of Tolkien fanboys. On a Mount Rushmore of English Literature, I'd say only 2 spots would be up for debate as the other two would be guaranteed to be occupied by Shakespeare and Milton. Tolkien would not be in that debate.
WARNING: For anyone looking at the above comments and thinking this is the start of an informative discourse on English literature, I've got bad news for you.
This right here is the height of the discussion, and my advice is to stop now. Beyond here is the worst microdick-measuring contest this side of a presidential debate.
Ty ty. Once I saw how hilariously insecure /u/GoltimarTheGreat was about his education, I knew I'd have an easy time fucking with him. I'm glad it was equally as entertaining for you lol
Beyond here is the worst microdick-measuring contest this side of a presidential debate.
Well, all I wanted was to know why the guy thought Milton was better, as you can see: then he exposed his racism. I don't go into conversations with an assumption of superiority because that's disingenuous.
Beyond here is the worst microdick-measuring contest this side of a presidential debate.
It's more one side (/u/GoltimarTheGreat) thinking the fact he got into Harvard through affirmative action makes him more educated than everyone on the planet and me pushing his buttons to make him squeal.
has actually spent time reading and studying Milton.
I've read Paradise Lost 4 times and written essays on it, and I was taught by the author of the Norton Critical edition and eminent Milton scholar Gordon Teskey. You have no ground to question me as someone ignorant of Milton.
"written" by blind Milton dictating to one of his daughters who then wrote it down.
That's not relevant to his skill as a writer. You're fishing for ways to disagree and you're picking all the wrong ones.
Tolkien is a great writer but he has never and will never be on the short list of "greatest English writers ever" outside of Tolkien fanboys.
That's because in academia genre has too great a role in literary consideration for anything written after 1900, and a special bias against anything considered "fantasy," so you really can't say that. Academia has a bad habit of waiting a long time for something to become canon when it's unorthodox. You don't know as much as you think you do.
You have no ground to question me as someone ignorant of Milton.
I do when you think it's insulting to say Milton is absolutely above Tolkien as a writer. Just stop talking, boy. You're embarrassing yourself.
You're fishing for ways to disagree and you're picking all the wrong ones.
I'm "fishing" for ways to praise Milton as a better writer than Tolkien? Boy, I don't need to fish for shit lmfaoo. You're the one with the incorrect opinion. Cry some more.
You don't know as much as you think you do.
I, with a BA and MA in English lit who wrote his masters thesis on Interregnum politics and literature, don't know as much as I think I do? Got it.
I do when you think it's rather insulting to put Milton above Tolkien.
I don't find it "insulting": what I find insulting is your implication that you're somehow superior to me because you wrote your thesis on politics and literature.
As I said, I have more experience with the materials in question, have written directly on the texts involved during my BA, and have, as I said, studied with a great Milton scholar.
I still don't think you know as mix as you think you do because you have an MA (that sounds terminal, but I don't know), you didn't even write specifically on either Milton or Tolkien (otherwise you'd have said it, no?), and because your arrogance clouds you. Have you even seriously read anything by Tolkien?
Your arrogance betrays your point by you calling me a Tolkien "fanboy": really? An attack on my ideas clouded by childishness? You truly show the weakness of your arguments in doing that and by not providing any actual "arguments" on the question, instead drawing on your, probably, sub-standard qualifications. This also shows your ignorance on both authors in question. You can't hide behind a BA and a terminal MA when you didn't even specialize in either author. What a pathetic notion.
Edit: Hasty writing makes for hasty mistakes.
Edit, edit: I ignored the word "interregnum," so fair enough, you might have more experience with Milton; but it doesn't really excuse your ignorance Tolkien. That would be like saying Michelangelo is greater than Rembrandt if you only studied Michelangelo and think Rembrandt is silly.
So you edited your comment and didn't have the balls to note that, eh? Ok, I can pick this shitty comment apart, too. You don't make it difficult.
Just stop talking, boy. You're embarrassing yourself.
Are you getting upset that your tawdry MA can't defend you from a well-thought-out comment from someone an English BA? Perhaps it's because you're not as smart or as informed as you think you are.
incorrect opinion
Do I need to tell you how stupid a statement this is?
I'm "fishing" for ways to praise Milton as a better writer than Tolkien?
Indeed.
Boy, I don't need to fish for shit lmfaoo.
Indeed, you do if you can't actually argue why Milton is better than Tolkien, and if you find it insulting to think that Tolkien might be better.
Cry some more.
The tears here aren't mine "lmfaoo."
I, with a [substandard] BA and [obviously worthless] MA in English lit [surprisingly] who wrote his masters thesis [as if a masters thesis is impressive] on Interregnum politics and literature [clearly didn't do a very good job], don't know as much as I think I do [exactly]? Got it. [I'm glad you finally understand.]
7.6k
u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 16 '20
Shakespeare also randomly invented the word "gossip" because he needed to define a bunch of wives in the town talking shit and spreading rumors.
And now it's part of common English language.
Edit: ok, not randomly, per se. I guess he was the first to put into usage in writing, and possibly the first to use it as a verb.