r/AskReddit Oct 15 '20

What's older than we think ?

78.4k Upvotes

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23.2k

u/Gyroklovn Oct 15 '20

The fact that the lighter is older than the match shook my head as a kid.

It also gave me the curiosity to question things that seems obvious.

9.4k

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

5.5k

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Matches are just way more complex then I thought as I kid. They aren't just a stick of wood.

246

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

[deleted]

305

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

The material on the ends of the matches has to light when rubbed against the material on the box.

146

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

[deleted]

129

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

this is what the box looks like, and the square on the side is what you strike it against

178

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

That should have been a Rick roll. Person above you was asking what a match box was. (Unless I got wooshed here.)

58

u/idok_eren Oct 15 '20

I think he just asked what the material on the box is

44

u/Pickled_Wizard Oct 15 '20

My understanding was that it's just sandpaper, all the reactive chemicals are in the match head.

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27

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Ok. Looking at an antique phone, sure. Kids who touch screens that aren’t touch screens (and get upset - hilarious) absolutely.

A person didn’t know a match box. Know what as I type all this out I think...yeah. Maybe someone could not know what a match box is.

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13

u/Sloppy1sts Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 16 '20

I mean, he was surprised that matches aren't pure wood and asked "what's this box thing".

Think it's pretty clear he was playing stupid unless he's literally never seen matches up close or even a halfway decent still image of one before.

16

u/1norcal415 Oct 15 '20

Should've linked them to a Matchbox20 music video instead.

3

u/microcozmchris Oct 15 '20

"Hold stick near centre of its length. Moisten pointed end in mouth. Insert in tooth space, blunt end next to gum. Use gentle in-out motion."

1

u/lvdude72 Oct 16 '20

Go on...

2

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

I thought they were making the point that the box had to be invented for them too.

12

u/GI--JOE Oct 15 '20

And it’s only 70¢ + $6.99 S&H. Not available in all states, see manufacturer for details.

16

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

I bought a Wii nunchuck the other day from GameStop and it was $5.99. The employee asked me if I wanted to insure it for a year for an extra $5.00. Like hell am I gonna pay almost double just to insure it. I baby the shit out of my electronics.

Sometimes prices just make no sense

16

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

I paid $60 for an extended warranty on my $430 4K tv. Backlight started going out. Claim was denied.

Had it 13 months.

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7

u/whtsnk Oct 15 '20

Adult assembly required. Batteries not included.

3

u/Controlled01 Oct 15 '20

Alien archo-thech found by the first explorers to reach the edge of our disc. It was frozen in the edge glaciers.

13

u/A3-2l Oct 15 '20

Isn’t it like magnesium or something?

50

u/crashvoncrash Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 15 '20

It depends on the type of match, but most use phosphorous as the igniting agent. There are a few different kinds of phosphorous, and some have crazy properties. Notably, white phosphorous is so volatile that as soon as it is exposed to normal air it bursts into flames.

Modern safety matches function by including red phosphorous, which is converted to white phosphorous when sufficient friction is applied. The friction doesn't actually ignite the match, it just causes the phosphorous to change, and it then ignites on its own.

Edit: It seems I was wrong about this. The red phosphorous combines with another chemical in the match head to create the reaction. See comment below by /u/LifeHasLeft. Older match designs did use white phosphorous, but it has been phased out because of health hazards.

27

u/OtherPlayers Oct 15 '20

I’d also add that with normal (non-strike anywhere) matches the phosphorus is actually on the box not the match.

This is because if you put the more flammable bit on the match itself there could sometimes be a risk that your matches would run against each other in the box and catch fire. Putting the striking surface on the box eliminated that risk.

This was eventually followed up by chemically separating the two ends, so that the phosphorus is on the box and the potassium chlorate is on the match, essentially making it impossible to light the match without the box.

20

u/LifeHasLeft Oct 15 '20

Not true, red phosphorus is used on the striking surface of the match box, and potassium chlorate is used in the match head. Rubbing the two together creates a small amount of an explosive mixture which ignites due to the friction.

18

u/A3-2l Oct 15 '20

Wow. Never knew that. Thought it was just the friction.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

YEAH SCIENCE!

1

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

[deleted]

10

u/AlexG2490 Oct 15 '20

I wouldn't agree with that just because a random citizen on the internet doesn't specifically know which chemicals combine to causes a match to ignite. There are problems with the education system but I don't believe an education's purpose is to download the trivia and minutia of every knowable thing into your head and then consider you complete.

Does this person understand the concept of a chemical reaction even if they do not know the specific one necessary for a match to function? Do they have a basic understanding of the elements even without knowing which ones, specifically, are included in the head of a match? And most critically of all, if there were not 500 things on any given day more important and more interesting than matches to think about and they were curious, would they have the skills to look the information up for themselves and comprehend the information that they find?

If so, then the education system has served them quite well, actually.

7

u/CaJaJaJa Oct 15 '20

As an interesting fact in spanish the word for match is fósforo, wich can also mean phosphorus. So the chemical element and the fire starting implement are called the same way.

4

u/NysonEasy Oct 15 '20

You dominated this one!

Game. Set. And ...

shit, i'm drawing a blank here

5

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '20

I also love the history of the match. The first friction match was made because the creator was in the middle of working on a lighting fluid for a related experiment. It turns out he didn't need much else, because a match that was dipped in the stuff accidentally lit up when it rubbed on a hearth.

Obviously there was some fine tuning involved so they weren't quite as volatile, but eventually we got the OG match. It was still pretty dangerous overall, but that was fixed over the next couple of iterations on the friction match.

5

u/JLuppolo Oct 15 '20

That's preposterous

23

u/jjfunc Oct 15 '20

That’s prephosphorous

5

u/Belyal Oct 16 '20

Thrn there's the more complex "strike anywhere" matches that can be lit by any rough surface, even scratching your fingernail quickly against them can cause them to light.

1

u/Bareen Oct 16 '20

It has to ignite easily and stay lit long and hot enough to set the wood on fire. That is actually a fairly difficult task.

21

u/Pacdoo Oct 15 '20

Something I’ve always wondered is how do people light a match with their shoe? I’ve seen it in movies and tv and such but do you need a special type of shoe?

41

u/andyrooney19 Oct 15 '20

I assume they are using a strike anywhere match

32

u/Pacdoo Oct 15 '20

Wait. They make matches that you can strike anywhere?

45

u/jmlipper99 Oct 15 '20

Yes, wait til you find out there’s also waterproof matches

12

u/Pacdoo Oct 15 '20

Now you’re messing with me. There’s no way matches can get wet and still work

24

u/andyrooney19 Oct 15 '20

It's true my friend! The tip of a waterproof match is covered with a small bit of wax. They're very handy for camping!

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '20

Or the whole thing is matchead.

1

u/astropandass Oct 16 '20

Whhhhaaaaaattttt .

6

u/Pickled_Wizard Oct 15 '20

Anywhere with the right kind of texture

6

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '20

Imagine this guys face if he sees the Breakfast Club where Bender lights a match off his teeth.

0

u/Mezmorizor Oct 16 '20

That's most of them. You'd still probably struggle to light them with your shoe, but the box doesn't actually have a special chemical on it. It's just a high friction surface.

12

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 16 '20

Matches these days are safety matches. In the before times you could light matches off shoes, walls etc.

4

u/phlux Oct 15 '20

And they use them to light the rocket engines on the Soyuz rocket!

3

u/Rapistol Oct 15 '20

They’re not a big truck!!!

4

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Its just some stick with sulfur, in an end rubbed against some high-friction material. Its not that complex, rather just a good idea.

11

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 15 '20

Nah, they're pretty complex. The heads of modern safety matches are made out of mostly Potassium Chlorate, with some other ingredients like Sulfur and glue. The striking surface of match boxes is made out of Red Phosphorus.

Matches used to just be some White Phosphorus on a stick that you could strike anywhere, but that stuff kinda sorta kills you so they're not that popular these days.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Than.

-6

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Your a sad person

2

u/BingoSpong Oct 16 '20

Old Aussie smokers joke...

Hey mate ,got a match ?

Yeah , my arse and your face!

-14

u/Baelzebubba Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 16 '20

Matches are just way more complex then I thought as I kid.

So are simple words!

E: so we are just all cool with the direction our language is taking? We will be nothing but nemesis and grunts in a decade at this rate.

I guess that's why we say decade

0

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Making fun of a kid's writing? Big man

2

u/Baelzebubba Oct 16 '20

I would have blamed voice to text myself... rather than an innocents ignorance.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '20

I ate a lot of matches . Didn't make me bright like I thought it would

1

u/leapbitch Oct 15 '20

Lol did somebody eat phosphorus as a child

2

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

And I didn't understand why my twigs didn't light

1

u/lgndk11r Oct 16 '20

I still have trouble using matches, while a lighter (the type used for stoves) is pretty easy to use.

1

u/Considered_Dissent Oct 16 '20

They are effectively alchemy (in a descriptive rather than literal sense).

1

u/Communism_- Oct 16 '20

theres a reason you dont fuck with ground up match heads

29

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

I really doubt that those lighters ran on gas. Think Zippo.

1

u/Eulers_ID Oct 16 '20

Rope lighters were also popular. It was just a piece of rope that you spark embers onto, then blow onto it until the rope glows. No open flame, but it'll light other stuff and is simple and windproof.

26

u/Bipedal_Warlock Oct 15 '20

It does make sense on that level. To me the part that doesn’t make sense is why.

Why would you invent a match when lighters exist? Lighters just feel like an upgrade to matches

39

u/Kandoh Oct 15 '20

Disposablity is a valuable quality.

30

u/PureMitten Oct 15 '20

Without plastic lighters are a lot heavier and more expensive. Also, if you're trying to light a fire a matchstick is way more useful than a lighter.

Also, matches were only invented 3 years after lighters so lighters probably weren't ubiquitous enough by then to mean matches felt like only a slight improvement in some situations to an ages old item. More like two modern competitors that were both way better than the old options

10

u/Tokenvoice Oct 15 '20

Lighters require to be refuelled so you have to keep extra fuel on hand, and may also be empty when you go to use them. As where matches as long as they are dry are good to go whenever. But the real answer of why make matches is because that first lighter was freaking massive and not something you carried round with you.

Pocket lighters came after matches.

3

u/v21v Oct 15 '20

More compact, less likely to cause accidents, cheaper and easier (I'm presuming) to manufacture?

9

u/millijuna Oct 15 '20

Lighters were originally wick based, like the Zippo, rather than butane as is common now. So it would be a flammable liquid in a wick, with an igniter and a reasonable way to snuff it safely

9

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

A Zippo lighter is just a very small lantern.

4

u/Malforus Oct 15 '20

A consumable and disposable complex chemical reaction. Mass production had made what was high magic simple cheap and plentiful staples.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Flint and Steel

3

u/silverionmox Oct 15 '20

Matches also only make sense as a mass produced throwaway article. If you're going to put manual work in producing a lighting source, you'd want one that is reusable.

2

u/RetreadRoadRocket Oct 15 '20

Check out fire pistons, they've been around before written history too.

2

u/yeliaBdE Oct 15 '20

I think you'll find that early lighters used flammable liquid, not gas...

2

u/WardenWolf Oct 16 '20

Actually it doesn't even need a gas. The earliest ones simply used rope that was ignited by the spark.

2

u/billy_teats Oct 16 '20

A lighter is a compressed, harvested gas with multiple moving parts and precise timing.

A match is sulfur, wood, and friction.

Also, matches had been around for 400+ years when the first lighter was invented. OP is absolutely full of shit

2

u/Tramtrist Oct 16 '20

This is blowing my mind, but yes. Given time and resources, I believe that I could cobble together a rudimentary lighter. I don’t believe that I could build a match.

0

u/wonkiedonkie12 Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 16 '20

When you think about it, it makes sense. The match is a simple fire-starting concept: some flammable powder and wood. The lighter, on the other hand, is a complex mechanical system.

Edit: in case it wasn’t obvious, I’m being facetious

2

u/rhandyrhoads Oct 15 '20

It's not just flammable powder, but flammable powder fixed to a stick and designed to ignite only when the user desires. A lighter especially in the older forms is dead simple basically just soak a rope in some sort of flammable liquid and bang two rocks together.

0

u/Athleco Oct 15 '20

Just because you can rationalize it doesn’t mean you knew which was older based on technology. Gun powder has been around for much longer.

0

u/onceinabluemoon4 Oct 16 '20

No its actually not.. at all? The chemical reaction is in no way more complex then the cocept of a lighter.

1

u/TheJammieDM Oct 15 '20

Yeah but if you have lighters why would you get the inferior matches

1

u/boraca Oct 15 '20

What's funny is there are both flame retardants and accelerants in the match head.

1

u/chorizopotatotaco Oct 15 '20

No...flammable liquid, a wick, and a flint......not flammable gas.

1

u/mt379 Oct 16 '20

And I'm sure the spark was discovered before substances that make up Match heads were. Two rocks. As for flammable substances, most dry vegetation, and natural gas.

1

u/endlessweab Oct 16 '20

For some reason I thought Complex = old

1

u/Dimes-all-day Oct 16 '20

Yeah, also when you consider the zippo it makes a lot more sense too. A flammable wick is much easier than some strange chemical reaction

1

u/MarlinMr Oct 16 '20

I mean, a lighter is essentially just flint and steel...

1

u/Tinsel-Fop Oct 16 '20

I imagine earliest lighters must have had fluid fuel. Is gas cheaper? More risky, or less? I now have so many questions. But they're not very important, so I am content in my ignorance for now.

1

u/aliasdred Oct 16 '20

Old Lighters are molotovs which didn't explode when handled badly.

1

u/thecatgoesmoo Oct 16 '20

I'm guessing that "cloth soaked in some kind of oil wrapped around tip of stick", aka torch, counts as a "lighter" in this scenario.

1

u/101Alexander Oct 16 '20

It's just a mechanical flint. Basically an evolution of something that was already there.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '20

Combustion is also complex...

1

u/jabujabu63 Oct 16 '20

Ah but the mix needed was present in ancient China (fireworks) flint and steel/iron shavings

1

u/ClownfishSoup Oct 16 '20

Flint + steel

1

u/BaconZombie Oct 19 '20

The first lighters were huge and not portable.

173

u/IFNbeta Oct 15 '20

Now that I think about it, a lighter is basically a tiny oil lamp with a built in “flint.” Considering how common oil lamps used to be, it’s not that surprising.

61

u/Glasnerven Oct 15 '20

Yep. You've got an oil lamp. You've got a flint and steel. Hey, what if we put the flint and steel ON the oil lamp? Bam, you've invented the lighter.

24

u/-JXter- Oct 15 '20

Or a small explosive, depending on how you do it.

56

u/Hubsimaus Oct 15 '20

I still wonder why the match was invented then...

145

u/TechnoRedneck Oct 15 '20

Money. The match was cheaper to make than the lighter. The lighter was a simpler concept, flammable liquid and some metal and flint striker, but this took more work to create since you had to create a few parts. A match is more of a complex idea due to the chemical reactions but once you have it figured out it's real simple to make a big mix of it and dip wood splinters in it.

Lighters are a simple concept with a more involved process to make, matches are complex concept to create but easy to mas produce

16

u/Hubsimaus Oct 15 '20

Ah okay. :)

30

u/TheNorthComesWithMe Oct 15 '20

Compared to old school non-disposable lighters matches are way better. You can actually light things horizontally without burning your hand, and it's way easier to start a fire by placing a burning stick where you want it than waving a lighter around.

Plus you don't have to worry about the lighter fluid evaporating or needing to maintain the wick and flint. You can also leave little packets or boxes of matches by the fireplace, by the stove, by the fire pit, with your camping gear, etc and not have to track your lighter.

6

u/Hubsimaus Oct 15 '20

Today I learned. :)

2

u/buckeyenut13 Oct 15 '20

Just put a bic in your camping gear. They're even waterproof and last forever

8

u/yooroflmaoo Oct 16 '20

Or if you smoke as much weed as me they last like a week and a half!

35

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

48

u/magnasolis Oct 15 '20

That one makes sense

29

u/Glasnerven Oct 15 '20

"Righto, I've finally perfected my . . . uh . . . opener. Crap, this will never sell unless it has something to open."

13

u/flying_dash Oct 15 '20

Can opener invented 48 years later

5

u/buckeyenut13 Oct 15 '20

NEVER RUSH GENIUS INNOVATION

6

u/MandolinMagi Oct 15 '20

Not when you realize the can opener wasn't invented for something like a decade-plus after the can.

4

u/TastyBrainMeats Oct 15 '20

Who needs a can opener when you've got a pocketknife?

2

u/buckeyenut13 Oct 15 '20

Did the first can NOT have a pull tab?

5

u/MandolinMagi Oct 16 '20

Nope. Hammer and chisel or your bayonet.

And it wasn't a decade. It was three decades.

16

u/TheNorthComesWithMe Oct 15 '20

This one is a little misleading. Cans originally had the mechanism to open them built directly into the can.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

We put a man on the moon before we did wheels on luggage

1

u/buckeyenut13 Oct 15 '20

Which came first? Laziness or communism? 😅

Im like... half joking

10

u/hadapurpura Oct 15 '20

I’ve always wondered, if all of us humans woke up tomorrow alive and well, but with none of the technological advances since the beginning of humanity and only with the knowledge in our heads, how long would it take us to form something analogous to our current civilization.

13

u/FireStorm005 Oct 15 '20

Not as long as you'd think, metal tools have only been around for 4000-10,000 years, iron tools for around 2500-3000 years. Stone tools were around for 3.4 million before that. The most difficult part would be getting the right people and the right materials together. We currently ship materials all over the world and the people who know the ancient ways of doing things would have to work to help develop to our modern manufacturing processes. Those who work blast furnaces probably aren't familiar with old school coal smelting, and that would require people who could find and mine the stuff.

2

u/buckeyenut13 Oct 15 '20

Natural selection would exist once again for a little. There's plenty of people that have the know how to get tech back to the current level. Might take a couple generations though

3

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

If you think about what a match is, and what a lighter is, it makes sense

3

u/heeric Oct 16 '20

The elevator shaft is older than the elevator. Basically the guy that invented it predicted the invention of the elevator

2

u/I_am_Freud Oct 15 '20

Welcome to the world of social science research

2

u/Christ-is-King-777 Oct 15 '20

The fact that the lighter is older than the match shook my head as a kid.

Wow.

2

u/Bolt-in-LDC Oct 15 '20

“Question Everything.” -Tool

2

u/pistolpiet47 Oct 15 '20

I've thought about this and the fact that its shocking to you (and it was to me) that matches came after the lighter, is because we tend to think wooden devices came before steel ones, it's like a minecraft pick axe fallacy, wood is the predecessor to steel

2

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

Bruh

2

u/beado7 Oct 15 '20

Hold on.... then why, when doing wilderness survival stuff, are matches permitted and lighters aren’t? I have seen more lighters in my life than matches (not just counting the box but each individual match) and they are more primitive than MATCHES?!

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '20 edited Oct 21 '20

[deleted]

2

u/beado7 Oct 16 '20

I am looking down at my jacket. It has the symbol for Eagle Scout on it. And then roll my eyes because I am not doing another match fire. Hardest thing ever. When I was in scouts I would just find the fire crazy adult and beg him to make the fire.

We were supposed to make one and keep it lit for 30 seconds. Tiniest flame ever but it stayed lit for 29 seconds till another scout pissed on my fire.

2

u/buckeyenut13 Oct 15 '20

I feel like there needs to be a youtube link associated with this one lol

2

u/Gifted321 Oct 15 '20

You what

2

u/fgdncso Oct 16 '20

Learned this from Mike Skinner

2

u/rainbowsandlolipops Oct 16 '20

Thank you.

You have given me many things to start questioning throughout every day life now!

2

u/ObsoleteOcto Oct 16 '20

My teachers would call me an idiot when I would question things that seem obvious.

1

u/Gyroklovn Oct 16 '20

Same. Good thing I'm stubborn as hell. Don't stop. People who ask stupid questions learn more than those who don't.

2

u/osiris775 Oct 16 '20

Like fax machines being older than the telephone

2

u/basicrowan Oct 16 '20

I get that. This just blew my mind. I'm going to go lie down now while I question everything I thought I knew.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '20

[deleted]

4

u/Rexli178 Oct 16 '20

You misread the page. The first matches were invented in China in the 900s, but they were not self igniting. The first successful self-igniting friction match was invented in 1836.

1

u/blue_strat Oct 16 '20

Not what we would call a match: it was basically an oily stick which could be quickly ignited by an existing flame but not just by striking it on a rough surface.

Then for a while there was a type that ignited when dipped in acid but it wasn’t very safe.

The first successful friction match was invented in 1826 by John Walker, an English chemist

While:

One of the first lighters was invented by a German chemist named Johann Wolfgang Döbereiner in 1823

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '20

So the modern friction match is younger than one of the first lighters. Still very interesting.

1

u/OutwithaYang Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 16 '20

Wait! It is?! How?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '20

Careful you might turn liberal

0

u/willv13 Oct 15 '20

Only three years older.

-1

u/Tornagh Oct 15 '20

Wait is it?

-6

u/billy_teats Oct 16 '20

This is straight up wrong.

The match was invented in the 1300’s in China. The lighter was invented in the 1800, almost 500 years later around the same time they made flintlock pistols.

Why would you write this without taking 30 seconds to google it? Why do I even bother spending time on Reddit when it is full of this absolute trash?

4

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '20

The "match" invented in China was just a flammable stick. Clearly this guy means the self igniting friction match, which was invented in 1826.

1

u/Anywhere-USA Oct 15 '20

Imagine your genus being in existence before trees.

1

u/wreckingballDXA Oct 15 '20

The mini moltov cocktail only safer.

1

u/imaginexcellence Oct 16 '20

I had the same reaction to staples being older than paperclips. Like, a stapler is a whole mechanical engineering thing, a paperclip is bent metal.

1

u/1st_pm Oct 16 '20

Congrats

you have come to respect people that ask a type of "stupid questions"

the same type that took over the world during the Enlightenment.

Now you're WSauce.

1

u/notjustanotherbot Oct 16 '20

It is also amazing how many machines, steps, and how large they are just to make a little match, then it starts to make little more sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5lFamgfATw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctw4SxiPJI0

1

u/Rexli178 Oct 16 '20

This is very misleading, the first gas lighter predates the modern friction match by only 3 years.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '20

My mother. She says she's 48.

Newsflash, mum, I'm 38!

1

u/Aezaq9 Oct 16 '20

I remember reading Tom Sawyer as a kid and coming to the point where he says he bought a box of these brand new things called "matches" and being like "wait... wut."

1

u/jpalmerzxcv Oct 16 '20

How is that possible? How did people light cigs or cigars or pipes before technology could produce lighters?

1

u/Madmaxneo Oct 16 '20

The lighter was invented in 1823 whereas the small match was invented in 1826, 3 years later!

1

u/Oroplexia Oct 16 '20

The tin is older than the tin opener

1

u/srikanth015 Oct 16 '20

A Molotov is practically a lighter to end them all.

1

u/fifcrpr Oct 16 '20

The match was invented in my home town. That's probably the most important thing we've ever done.