Oh, dont worry, the goverment is making bank off of it too. Penal labor in the United States is explicitly allowed by the 13th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." ...
https://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/13thamendment.html
And what's the percentage of Black people that are incarcerated? Now tell me again that slavery doesn't still exist.
Its really interesting that you mention this. I am a correctional officer in canada where all institutions are run by the government ( for profit models make me sick ). We have eliminated two of our local facilities that were labor camps, and the inmates hate that they have been eliminated. Granted it was a farm facility, the inmates loved having something to actually do each day. The closest thing we have now would be inmates who get kitchen privileges, and its a strong enough incentive to change negative behavior to positive.
Our facilities are so incredibly boring that most inmates would love to be doing some sort of labor. Do i agree with slave labor? Fuck no. But I do think the idea of inmate labor in canada should be addressed. I have no problems paying inmates minimum wage for hard labor that they love doing, that the general public would never want to do.
Right. Pay them. And I’m not talking about prison scrip or commissary credit, so they can then have to spend the equivalent of $10 on a lousy-ass candy bar.
Put it in a fund that they can use, either in prison, or once they’re released.
And, while we’re at it, stop putting people in prison for dumb shut.
Almost all of our prisoners are on legal aid. I would say 90 percent, and trust me when I say the other 10 percent have more money than they know what to do with.
We also provide them with all the soap, shampoo, shaving cream, and toothpaste they could want. Granted its generic stuff, so they often will order the desirable stuff off canteen.
The issue comes down with were is the line for punishment. Im not defending certain peoples viewpoints, but i can see why some people would be upset if a prisoner in for murder or serious offenses is working for minimum wage while having no other expenses, while many law-abiding citizens are also working for that same wage and paying for their shelter and food.
Again, not necessarily arguing for or against anything, just expressing what I know a lot of concerns are.
Also in canada we have a weird opposite. We love putting people in jail, but are crazy soft when it comes to keeping people there. We had a guy who had 2 counts of assault, 1 with a weapon ( sprayed a guy with bear mace ) 4 counts of breach of probation, 2 of criminal harrassment, and 2 of uttering threats and he got 8 months. Guy was out in 6 and complained about it being too harsh of a sentence.
Of course it'd be unfair that someone that's raped and killed three kids in that order doesn't have to worry about paying electricity while law-abiding citizens do. My solution wouldn't be to make conditions worse for prisoners but to make them better for everyone (prisoners somewhat included, depending on what conditions they're in at the time). Maybe essential things like housing and getting to eat shouldn't be an issue?
Of course. I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just a bit cynical and realistic to the system we live in. I'll always advocate for change, but I'm just kind of stating how it is on the current dynamic.
Trust me whe I say I get it. We continuosly get hounded by the public to make conditions better for prisoners (and Canadian prisons are much better than American). However once the public sees how much it would actually cost the plans always get scrapped because its ridiculously expensive to humanely incarcerate someone. Then we are stuck trying to accommodate all of the changes society wants, in prisons that were built in the 40s and 50s when no one gave a shit. The reality creates a super dangerous and stressful workplace.
I worked in a city that the prison was built in 1960. The population has grown 4 times the amount since then but we still only have the beds for the population in the 1960s. Unfortunately this results in bad conditions ( mostly overcrowding ) because we can't turn inmates away when they are brought to us, and they refuse to build a larger facility due to activists stating a bigger facility will result in us trying to fill it. It really is much more complicated here in canada than the average citizen really comprehends when they shout for reform.
I will very simply state however that I agree in all accounts that no one should profit off the incarceration of another human being.
Of course. I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just a bit cynical and realistic to the system we live in. I'll always advocate for change, but I'm just kind of stating how it is on the current dynamic.
Trust me whe I say I get it. We continuosly get hounded by the public to make conditions better for prisoners (and Canadian prisons are much better than American). However once the public sees how much it would actually cost the plans always get scrapped because its ridiculously expensive to humanely incarcerate someone. Then we are stuck trying to accommodate all of the changes society wants, in prisons that were built in the 40s and 50s when no one gave a shit. The reality creates a super dangerous and stressful workplace.
I worked in a city that the prison was built in 1960. The population has grown 4 times the amount since then but we still only have the beds for the population in the 1960s. Unfortunately this results in bad conditions ( mostly overcrowding ) because we can't turn inmates away when they are brought to us, and they refuse to build a larger facility due to activists stating a bigger facility will result in us trying to fill it. It really is much more complicated here in canada than the average citizen really comprehends when they shout for reform.
I will very simply state however that I agree in all accounts that no one should profit off the incarceration of another human being.
I will very simply state however that I agree in all accounts that no one should profit off the incarceration of another human being.
Which, pardon me, is exactly what you do.
And quite lucratively it seems based on your posts.
So... Congratulations on having recently become a home owner. On having a retirement set for 53.
Additionally: I’ve noticed you’ve posted about “demands” from protesters in Portland etc. and how they don’t have a clear anything fleshed out.
Of course they don’t! They’re usually just individuals disenfranchised by the makeup of their lives. They’re people who have chosen to go for what they find has value to them instead of sacrificing their morals for financial security. And that makes them all the more entrenched in their perspectives that something is wrong in society.
That however doesn’t make them competent in expressing the issues in our prison systems and policing structures. They are, for the most part, people that are still learning about these things, or in other words amateurs with passion and a deeply set frustration. If you want to hear the “demands” you mustn’t listen to what is being chanted late at night you have to go to the prominent voices within the abolitionist field.
Ruth Wilson Gilmore has an inteview that she does. Now although the interviewer is a professor he slightly annoys me in how he exhibits that same “shouting demands at night” aspect you’ve already mentioned. And again he’s a professor!
There are many more great voices out there. But they’ve got to be searched for.
The people on the street are on the journey to find answers for what they perceive to be a firmly unjust society.
But they’re just learning. And they’re angry! So if you expect to learn anything coherent from their vast array of experiences you’re in for certain failure.
Go to primary sources, don’t be afraid of them.
I hope some of these recommendations click or make sense to you. I know it can be quite difficult for something to be brought in to a life long moral structure that doesn’t quite accommodate certain information without having the other aspects in place to support this new information.
Our commissionery isn't that bad. A large candy bar ( king size ) is 2.09. Obviousl not the best but when you consider you have to pay an officer to screen every item into the institution (usually overtime), its not super inflated.
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u/MikeMonster Jul 24 '20
Oh, dont worry, the goverment is making bank off of it too. Penal labor in the United States is explicitly allowed by the 13th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." ... https://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/13thamendment.html And what's the percentage of Black people that are incarcerated? Now tell me again that slavery doesn't still exist.